2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion

[The Realist]

In a just world, LeBron would have that MVP locked up. Unfortunately, the media hates LeBron and has plenty of excuses to give it to Curry or Harden instead. Hope I'm wrong.

That's a bit unfair. I'd say the media has been clearly more positive on him compared to his time on the Heat.

[Zack M]

so GOATbrook has a 39/14/11 performance on a 'poor shooting' night.

he would have scored 60 if his shot was on....

MVP!

[The Realist]

so GOATbrook has a 39/14/11 performance on a 'poor shooting' night.

he would have scored 60 if his shot was on....

MVP!

The world isn't ready for the age of GOATBrook yet. He's the hero we deserve, but not the one we need right now.

[olive_triangurl]

If Houston beats Cleveland then Harden will officially move ahead of Curry in the MVP race.
That's the way the media thinks, they are a prisoner of the moment, so one game (or two games in this case) has a huge impact.

[olive_triangurl]

In a just world, LeBron would have that MVP locked up. Unfortunately, the media hates LeBron and has plenty of excuses to give it to Curry or Harden instead. Hope I'm wrong.

Why? They didn't give Jordan MVP in 1992-93, despite him being better than Barkley.
Barkley was on the superior regular season team that year, so he had the upper hand, despite averaging 7 fewer points than Jordan, and less assists/steals, and more turnovers.
If you want to be MVP then lead your team to more victories.
A single home victory doesn't change anything for LeBron.
All it does is make us believe the Warriors won't sweep the Cavaliers in the Finals.

[laploutocratie]

LeBron took a cast of completely new players that could barely win a single game without him (1-10 during the time he was gone IIRC) to now ONE game back of the second seed. It's unfortunate that the media decided Curry won this award a few months ago and how LeBron has such a high benchmark that he can't get recognized even though he's quite distinguishably the best player. He's going to get robbed again like when Rose won that MVP because of the impressionable and biased media.

[INKtastic]

If Houston beats Cleveland then Harden will officially move ahead of Curry in the MVP race.
That's the way the media thinks, they are a prisoner of the moment, so one game (or two games in this case) has a huge impact.

The Cavs didn't just win 1 game, they've won 18 of the last 20 with an OffRtg of 112.6 and a NetRtg of 12.3.

http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/adv ... TING&dir=1

[gmoney411]

His point still stands. There are diminishing returns for team improvement the closer you get to the maximum wins. Improving a 10 win team to 20 wins is a hell of a lot easier than improving a 50 win team to 60. That's just basic statistics more than anything.

You are using extremes in your example too. When you get as low as 10 wins there is much more room for improvement. But when you are talking 30 to 50 and 40 to 60 you are comparing middling teams to high seeded teams. The numbers get a lot closer in the middle. I'm not sure it is a "hell of a lot" harder to go from 40 to 60 compared to 30 to 50. It could actually be harder to get those 20 wins for the 30 win team in certain situations if they are further away from victories than the 40 win team. The 40 win team could be right on the edge and only needs a slight addition to start racking up wins while the 30 win team is much further away. But yes in a vacuum stats would lead us to believe that it's harder to get from 40 to 60 but we would still want to know how much harder that is because it could be a small difference.

They are using extremes to simplify a general principle for you, but you also have a point.

What I"d say is that what is generally true is that the better the team already is, the harder it is to improve it. But that doesn't mean it's a given every time.

In the case of Curry the other factor is that its a huge SRS difference we're talking about here. GSW isn't a team lucking into 60 wins, their SRS is absolutely massive. The gap between GSW and Houston with this is as big as the gap between Houston and Boston. And so what I'd say is this: Realistically I seriously doubt anyone talking like yourself actually views Houston as halfway between Golden State and Boston. As such when people say thing s like "yeah but Curry has help", they are imagining Curry's team being a smidge better than Houston, and they chafe at the notion of defaulting to giving the nod to the guy on the better team. And so what I'd want to emphasize is that there has to be a threshold where Curry's team success is big enough to move past the supporting-cast based arguments, and if you don't think GS is ne

I knew the answer to the question when I asked it and I knew why they were giving the extreme examples. I just wanted to see what people were thinking before I responded. And I don't disagree with your second point. The Warriors winning by an average of 10 points is a big deal that should be factored in.

I'm honestly not even sure that I'd pick Harden as the MVP right now based on all the facts and would probably go with Curry. Mainly I'm arguing against people that believe it HAS to be Curry which I disagree with.

[Rastas]

Curry
Lebron / Harden
.
.
Westbrook
.
.
Davis

Prediction : Lebron to edge ahead within next 2 weeks then pull away, Harden and Curry to fight over second with Westbrook not far behind.

[Neutral 123]

LeBron took a cast of completely new players that could barely win a single game without him (1-10 during the time he was gone IIRC) to now ONE game back of the second seed. It's unfortunate that the media decided Curry won this award a few months ago and how LeBron has such a high benchmark that he can't get recognized even though he's quite distinguishably the best player. He's going to get robbed again like when Rose won that MVP because of the impressionable and biased media.

Well they made some trades that greatly improved their roster. Also, the expectations are high when you have Kyrie and Love. For me the order is Curry, Harden, then Lebron . The gap between GS and the Rockets and Cava have to shrink considerably before that changes.

[olive_triangurl]

If Houston beats Cleveland then Harden will officially move ahead of Curry in the MVP race.
That's the way the media thinks, they are a prisoner of the moment, so one game (or two games in this case) has a huge impact.

The Cavs didn't just win 1 game, they've won 18 of the last 20 with an OffRtg of 112.6 and a NetRtg of 12.3.

http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/adv ... TING&dir=1

Yep, it reminds me of Golden State's first 3 months of the season.
Very impressive.

[olive_triangurl]

Curry
Lebron / Harden
.
.
Westbrook
.
.
Davis

Prediction : Lebron to edge ahead within next 2 weeks then pull away, Harden and Curry to fight over second with Westbrook not far behind.

One thing we know for sure, Cleveland won't come close to Golden State in the win/loss column.
Its over.
Winning a game in Cleveland won't save LeBron from MVP failure.

[Madhouse]

Curry
Lebron / Harden
.
.
Westbrook
.
.
Davis

Prediction : Lebron to edge ahead within next 2 weeks then pull away, Harden and Curry to fight over second with Westbrook not far behind.

One thing we know for sure, Cleveland won't come close to Golden State in the win/loss column.
Its over.
Winning a game in Cleveland won't save LeBron from MVP failure.

GS is coming back to earth. They are 44-11. I think they go 63-19 or so. Cavs are really hot and they have won 17 of 19 or so. They could go 20-3 or so the rest of the way and finish the season at 57-25. If Lebron plays well he should win MVP bc the Cavs were utter trash without the King and lost 9 of 10.

[Madhouse]

LeBron took a cast of completely new players that could barely win a single game without him (1-10 during the time he was gone IIRC) to now ONE game back of the second seed. It's unfortunate that the media decided Curry won this award a few months ago and how LeBron has such a high benchmark that he can't get recognized even though he's quite distinguishably the best player. He's going to get robbed again like when Rose won that MVP because of the impressionable and biased media.

agree. Lebron should have won MVP every season since 2009 except last year. He is that dominant.

[olive_triangurl]

GS is coming back to earth. They are 44-11. I think they go 63-19 or so. Cavs are really hot and they have won 17 of 19 or so. They could go 20-3 or so the rest of the way and finish the season at 57-25. If Lebron plays well he should win MVP bc the Cavs were utter trash without the King and lost 9 of 10.

And the Cavs were utter trash with LeBron for a long time.
Some trades saved them, with JR Smith in particular being vital, as well as Love's fg% increasing rapidly after a disastrous first couple of months.
And LeBron's statline is no better than Harden's btw, and Harden did it with a weaker supporting cast.
So it looks like Curry and Harden are top 2.

[olive_triangurl]

LeBron took a cast of completely new players that could barely win a single game without him (1-10 during the time he was gone IIRC) to now ONE game back of the second seed. It's unfortunate that the media decided Curry won this award a few months ago and how LeBron has such a high benchmark that he can't get recognized even though he's quite distinguishably the best player. He's going to get robbed again like when Rose won that MVP because of the impressionable and biased media.

agree. Lebron should have won MVP every season since 2009 except last year. He is that dominant.

Jordan was even more dominant, and he wasn't even given MVP for 32.5ppg 8.0rpg 8.0apg 2.9spg .538fg, because making the playoffs wasn't enough.
You need to be as dominant as Golden State to win MVP.
The only exception may be Harden in Houston, because his supporting cast is so weak.
Cleveland is downright loaded, with 3 guys all having averaged 23ppg at least once in their careers (Irving 22.5ppg, Love 26.0ppg, LeBorn 31.4ppg).
Highest scoring trio of all-time, of guys still in their prime (the Lakers had Shaq, Kobe and Karl Malone, but mailman was past his prime).

[laploutocratie]

LeBron took a cast of completely new players that could barely win a single game without him (1-10 during the time he was gone IIRC) to now ONE game back of the second seed. It's unfortunate that the media decided Curry won this award a few months ago and how LeBron has such a high benchmark that he can't get recognized even though he's quite distinguishably the best player. He's going to get robbed again like when Rose won that MVP because of the impressionable and biased media.

agree. Lebron should have won MVP every season since 2009 except last year. He is that dominant.

Jordan was even more dominant, and he wasn't even given MVP for 32.5ppg 8.0rpg 8.0apg 2.9spg, because making the playoffs wasn't enough.
You need to be as dominant as Golden State to win MVP.

You need to be more subtle with your hate for LeBron. I can sniff it from miles away.

[olive_triangurl]

^ I've never hated a player in my life.
But the truth hurts, and there is often nothing subtle about the truth.

[The Realist]

GS is coming back to earth. They are 44-11. I think they go 63-19 or so. Cavs are really hot and they have won 17 of 19 or so. They could go 20-3 or so the rest of the way and finish the season at 57-25. If Lebron plays well he should win MVP bc the Cavs were utter trash without the King and lost 9 of 10.

And the Cavs were utter trash with LeBron for a long time.
Some trades saved them, with JR Smith in particular being vital, as well as Love's fg% increasing rapidly after a disastrous first couple of months.
And LeBron's statline is no better than Harden's btw, and Harden did it with a weaker supporting cast.
So it looks like Curry and Harden are top 2.

1-8 = utter trash
18-12 = utter trash

1-8 = 18-12?

[Dupp]

^ I've never hated a player in my life.
But the truth hurts, and there is often nothing subtle about the truth.

Haven't you talked about hating curry In this thread?



Also what does Jordan's dominance have to do with Lebrons and the correlation to whether he should of won MVP very year since 09 bar last year? Each yeah is different with deferent circumstances, team and player performance.
Simply comparing him to a player from yesteryear is irrelevant. The only way to look at it is year by year.