2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

greekbuck34 · Post #1981 » by **greekbuck34** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 4:36 am

If Giannis survives the Bucks brutal remaining schedule and leads his team to the 1st seed he would be the only guy in the mix ticking all the MVP boxes. Stats, Narrative, Wins. He would be the easy choice then especially after so many National Televised games against the best teams this season.

eyeatoma · Post #1982 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 4:38 am

greekbuck34 wrote:If Giannis survives the Bucks brutal remaining schedule and leads his team to the 1st seed he would be the only guy in the mix ticking all the MVP boxes. Stats, Narrative, Wins. He would be the easy choice then especially after so many National Televised games against the best teams this season.

What's his narrative? Numbers slightly under Embiid and Jokic, while leading a team that has had their whole core except for Lopez for atleast half of the season.

Still can't beat the narrative of Embiid and Jokic.

greekbuck34 · Post #1983 » by **greekbuck34** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 4:44 am

eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:If Giannis survives the Bucks brutal remaining schedule and leads his team to the 1st seed he would be the only guy in the mix ticking all the MVP boxes. Stats, Narrative, Wins. He would be the easy choice then especially after so many National Televised games against the best teams this season.

What's his narrative? Numbers slightly under Embiid and Jokic, while leading a team that has had their whole core except for Lopez for atleast half of the season.

Still can't beat the narrative of Embiid and Jokic.

We have been by far the most injured team in the league the first 25-30 games of the season but that's not what I mean by narrative.
His narrative will be the MVP and the best two way player in the league leads his team exactly where a MVP supposed to.

Top seed, amazing stats, availability. That's the NBA's MVP 99% of the time. There is no way a guy from the 3rd-6th seed to steal the award from a guy like that even if he has slightly better advanced stats in some categories.

eyeatoma · Post #1984 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 4:48 am

greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:If Giannis survives the Bucks brutal remaining schedule and leads his team to the 1st seed he would be the only guy in the mix ticking all the MVP boxes. Stats, Narrative, Wins. He would be the easy choice then especially after so many National Televised games against the best teams this season.

What's his narrative? Numbers slightly under Embiid and Jokic, while leading a team that has had their whole core except for Lopez for atleast half of the season.

Still can't beat the narrative of Embiid and Jokic.

We have been by far the most injured team in the league the first 25-30 games of the season but that's not what I mean by narrative.
His narrative will be the MVP and the best two way player in the league leads his team exactly where a MVP supposed to.

Top seed, amazing stats, availability. That's the NBA's MVP 99% of the time. There is no way a guy from the 3rd-6th seed to steal the award from a guy like that even if he has slightly better advanced stats in some categories.

There is if his stats are very similar, if the seeding is decided by a few games, and if he's already won the MVP once.

eyeatoma · Post #1985 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 4:48 am

greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:If Giannis survives the Bucks brutal remaining schedule and leads his team to the 1st seed he would be the only guy in the mix ticking all the MVP boxes. Stats, Narrative, Wins. He would be the easy choice then especially after so many National Televised games against the best teams this season.

What's his narrative? Numbers slightly under Embiid and Jokic, while leading a team that has had their whole core except for Lopez for atleast half of the season.

Still can't beat the narrative of Embiid and Jokic.

We have been by far the most injured team in the league the first 25-30 games of the season but that's not what I mean by narrative.
His narrative will be the MVP and the best two way player in the league leads his team exactly where a MVP supposed to.

Top seed, amazing stats, availability. That's the NBA's MVP 99% of the time. There is no way a guy from the 3rd-6th seed to steal the award from a guy like that even if he has slightly better advanced stats in some categories.

Cavs and Sixers have been most impacted by Covid. Bucks are 3rd.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/32987000/which-nba-teams-hit-hardest-covid-numbers-league-omicron-spike

greekbuck34 · Post #1986 » by **greekbuck34** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 4:57 am

eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:

What's his narrative? Numbers slightly under Embiid and Jokic, while leading a team that has had their whole core except for Lopez for atleast half of the season.

Still can't beat the narrative of Embiid and Jokic.

We have been by far the most injured team in the league the first 25-30 games of the season but that's not what I mean by narrative.
His narrative will be the MVP and the best two way player in the league leads his team exactly where a MVP supposed to.

Top seed, amazing stats, availability. That's the NBA's MVP 99% of the time. There is no way a guy from the 3rd-6th seed to steal the award from a guy like that even if he has slightly better advanced stats in some categories.

There is if his stats are very similar, if the seeding is decided by a few games, and if he's already won the MVP once.

He won the MVP twice in fact and the second time Harden was averaging like 40 points per game for a month straight and he still couldn't touch Giannis in the final votings because Giannis had the top seed, the stats, DPOY season etc. Harden was crying about it with interviews in front of Rachel from ESPN etc and in the end Giannis won it almost unanimously anyway. The Rockets also dropped to the 4th seed because they just lost the last game of the season too.

Top seed and amazing stats is like 90% of the requirements for the MVP. It always has been. Westbrook and last season's Jokic when every single other MVP was out of contention for some reason either by injuries, covid etc are the only outliers.

eyeatoma · Post #1987 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 5:00 am

greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:
We have been by far the most injured team in the league the first 25-30 games of the season but that's not what I mean by narrative.
His narrative will be the MVP and the best two way player in the league leads his team exactly where a MVP supposed to.

Top seed, amazing stats, availability. That's the NBA's MVP 99% of the time. There is no way a guy from the 3rd-6th seed to steal the award from a guy like that even if he has slightly better advanced stats in some categories.

There is if his stats are very similar, if the seeding is decided by a few games, and if he's already won the MVP once.

He won the MVP twice in fact and the second time Harden was averaging like 40 points per game for a month straight and he still couldn't touch Giannis in the final votings because Giannis had the top seed, the stats, DPOY season etc. Harden was crying about it with interviews in front of Rachel from ESPN etc and in the end Giannis won it almost unanimously anyway. The Rockets also dropped to the 4th seed because they just lost the last game of the season too.

Top seed and amazing stats is like 90% of the requirements for the MVP. It always has been. Westbrook and last season's Jokic when every single other MVP was out of contention for some reason either by injuries, covid etc are the only outliers.

Having won it twice, he'll need to be even more impressive than the last two times. I agree about what you said about stats and seeding. But great stats, with a top seed, while they're just about the same as your MVP seasons, generally doesn't make the voters say, hey, he's done it again, lets reward him one more time. Not saying Giannis can't win it, I just think it would have to be due to and Embiid or Jokic injury, or huge drop off in their win percentages.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #1988 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 5:09 am

Too many variables at this point. Even if bucks get one seed, what seed would the sixers be? Will Embiid miss anymore games? Will Giannis miss anymore games (missed almost as many)? Will Jokic come back to earth?
You can have favorites right now, but it's asinine to say it's over with a 1/3 of the season remaining.

greekbuck34 · Post #1989 » by **greekbuck34** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 5:10 am

eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
There is if his stats are very similar, if the seeding is decided by a few games, and if he's already won the MVP once.

He won the MVP twice in fact and the second time Harden was averaging like 40 points per game for a month straight and he still couldn't touch Giannis in the final votings because Giannis had the top seed, the stats, DPOY season etc. Harden was crying about it with interviews in front of Rachel from ESPN etc and in the end Giannis won it almost unanimously anyway. The Rockets also dropped to the 4th seed because they just lost the last game of the season too.

Top seed and amazing stats is like 90% of the requirements for the MVP. It always has been. Westbrook and last season's Jokic when every single other MVP was out of contention for some reason either by injuries, covid etc are the only outliers.

Having won it twice, he'll need to be even more impressive than the last two times. I agree about what you said about stats and seeding. But great stats, with a top seed, while they're just about the same as your MVP seasons, generally doesn't make the voters say, hey, he's done it again, lets reward him one more time. Not saying Giannis can't win it, I just think it would have to be due to and Embiid or Jokic injury, or huge drop off in their win percentages.

If you are great enough and you tick all the MVP boxes it doesn't matter how many times you won in the past. The same stands for Curry too who already won the award twice just like Giannis. If the Warriors overtake the Suns he will be automatically the MVP no matter the stats from the 2nd-6th seed Giannis/Jokic/Embiid. A couple 40-50p games to close the season and secure the 1st seed and the media/voters will forget his terribly cold month midway the season.

Forget Curry too. If the Bucks and the Warriors collapse and Embiid takes the 1st seed it won't be 50/50 between him and Jokic. Embiid will win unanimously.

eyeatoma · Post #1990 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 5:29 am

greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:
He won the MVP twice in fact and the second time Harden was averaging like 40 points per game for a month straight and he still couldn't touch Giannis in the final votings because Giannis had the top seed, the stats, DPOY season etc. Harden was crying about it with interviews in front of Rachel from ESPN etc and in the end Giannis won it almost unanimously anyway. The Rockets also dropped to the 4th seed because they just lost the last game of the season too.

Top seed and amazing stats is like 90% of the requirements for the MVP. It always has been. Westbrook and last season's Jokic when every single other MVP was out of contention for some reason either by injuries, covid etc are the only outliers.

Having won it twice, he'll need to be even more impressive than the last two times. I agree about what you said about stats and seeding. But great stats, with a top seed, while they're just about the same as your MVP seasons, generally doesn't make the voters say, hey, he's done it again, lets reward him one more time. Not saying Giannis can't win it, I just think it would have to be due to and Embiid or Jokic injury, or huge drop off in their win percentages.

If you are great enough and you tick all the MVP boxes it doesn't matter how many times you won in the past. The same stands for Curry too who already won the award twice just like Giannis. If the Warriors overtake the Suns he will be automatically the MVP no matter the stats from the 2nd-6th seed Giannis/Jokic/Embiid. A couple 40-50p games to close the season and secure the 1st seed and the media/voters will forget his terribly cold month midway the season.

Forget Curry too. If the Bucks and the Warriors collapse and Embiid takes the 1st seed it won't be 50/50 between him and Jokic. Embiid will win unanimously.

Yes agreed, it's still very close for everyone, including Curry.

Infinite Llamas · Post #1991 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 5:45 am

greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:If Giannis survives the Bucks brutal remaining schedule and leads his team to the 1st seed he would be the only guy in the mix ticking all the MVP boxes. Stats, Narrative, Wins. He would be the easy choice then especially after so many National Televised games against the best teams this season.

What's his narrative? Numbers slightly under Embiid and Jokic, while leading a team that has had their whole core except for Lopez for atleast half of the season.

Still can't beat the narrative of Embiid and Jokic.

We have been by far the most injured team in the league the first 25-30 games of the season but that's not what I mean by narrative.
His narrative will be the MVP and the best two way player in the league leads his team exactly where a MVP supposed to.

Top seed, amazing stats, availability. That's the NBA's MVP 99% of the time. There is no way a guy from the 3rd-6th seed to steal the award from a guy like that even if he has slightly better advanced stats in some categories.

It’s erroneous to compare seeding with the 76ers, Bucks and Nuggets. This is because the top 3 seeds in the west would be the top seed in the East. This is why I look more at team records opposed to seeding. And all three of those teams aren’t too far from each other right now.

Perseus1966 · Post #1992 » by **Perseus1966** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 7:25 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:

What's his narrative? Numbers slightly under Embiid and Jokic, while leading a team that has had their whole core except for Lopez for atleast half of the season.

Still can't beat the narrative of Embiid and Jokic.

We have been by far the most injured team in the league the first 25-30 games of the season but that's not what I mean by narrative.
His narrative will be the MVP and the best two way player in the league leads his team exactly where a MVP supposed to.

Top seed, amazing stats, availability. That's the NBA's MVP 99% of the time. There is no way a guy from the 3rd-6th seed to steal the award from a guy like that even if he has slightly better advanced stats in some categories.

It’s erroneous to compare seeding with the 76ers, Bucks and Nuggets. This is because the top 3 seeds in the west would be the top seed in the East. This is why I look more at team records opposed to seeding. And all three of those teams aren’t too far from each other right now.

You mean below 6th spot in east

Kurtz · Post #1993 » by **Kurtz** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 7:31 am

Betting odds as of Sunday night:

Embiid +200
Joker + 260
Giannis +350
Curry +400
Morant +1000

DutchManDanFan · Post #1994 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 9:14 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:It’s erroneous to compare seeding with the 76ers, Bucks and Nuggets. This is because the top 3 seeds in the west would be the top seed in the East. This is why I look more at team records opposed to seeding. And all three of those teams aren’t too far from each other right now.

Nuggets record is not close to Bucks and 6ers record. Win-Loss difference:
Nuggets: +5
76ers: +11
Bucks: +13
These are big differences after 50+ games. Nuggets need to improve their record a lot to get close. And hope Bucks and 6ers don’t run away.

dshearn · Post #1995 » by **dshearn** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 9:51 am

greekbuck34 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:If Giannis survives the Bucks brutal remaining schedule and leads his team to the 1st seed he would be the only guy in the mix ticking all the MVP boxes. Stats, Narrative, Wins. He would be the easy choice then especially after so many National Televised games against the best teams this season.

What's his narrative? Numbers slightly under Embiid and Jokic, while leading a team that has had their whole core except for Lopez for atleast half of the season.

Still can't beat the narrative of Embiid and Jokic.

We have been by far the most injured team in the league the first 25-30 games of the season but that's not what I mean by narrative.
His narrative will be the MVP and the best two way player in the league leads his team exactly where a MVP supposed to.

Top seed, amazing stats, availability. That's the NBA's MVP 99% of the time. There is no way a guy from the 3rd-6th seed to steal the award from a guy like that even if he has slightly better advanced stats in some categories.

By far? I think everyone has been rocked by missed games this year.

Look at the Bucks compared to Miami... Giannis 44 games, Middleton 42 games, Jrue 41 games.

On Miami Jimmy 35 games, Bam 29 games, Lowery 41 games played.

It has been a rough year for the NBA.

I personally would vote for Embiid, but if the Bucks finish strong I can clearly see Giannis getting it too.

Antinomy · Post #1996 » by **Antinomy** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 10:01 am

Giannis is averaging 29/11/6/1/1.5 on 62TS%

He’s scored 25 points in 19 straight games (and counting).

He’s 0.1ppg from leading the league in scoring.

He’s led the Bucks to a Top 5 defense without Lopez & is probably the frontrunner for DPOY.

He has elite advanced stats across the board.

And the Bucks 0.5 games out of the #1 seed.

Gonna be a shame how people will have spent months debating about Curry, then Embiid-Jokic, only for Giannis to swoop in & grab his 3rd MVP.

It’s like Groundhog Day.

harlem_ball · Post #1997 » by **harlem_ball** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 10:29 am

kazyv wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
moderndarwin wrote:It’s Steph.

Also didn’t realize that Morris was still out because of that Joker retaliation. Good. It’s really weak sauce when people make non basketball fouls to hurt others. Karma.
Morris is gonna end up suing the crap out of Jokic if his career is in jeopardy.

even if that was possible and it probably isn't, because it's all part of the sport...

it would be a really dumb idea, because he would probably end up having to pay jokic and his lawyers. because in court, they will absolutely look at his history of thugging it up on the court. so all pretense of basketball play is going to be out of the window. it's just going to be him trying to injure somebody and then trying to avoid retaliation by turning his back.

This reply doesn't even make sense. Why does anyone sue anyone then? The altercation happened after play had ended. If he would have killed Keef would it be "just part of the game"?

eyeatoma · Post #1998 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 10:34 am

Antinomy wrote:Giannis is averaging 29/11/6/1/1.5 on 62TS%

He’s scored 25 points in 19 straight games (and counting).

He’s 0.1ppg from leading the league in scoring.

He’s led the Bucks to a Top 5 defense without Lopez & is probably the frontrunner for DPOY.

He has elite advanced stats across the board.

And the Bucks 0.5 games out of the #1 seed.

Gonna be a shame how people will have spent months debating about Curry, then Embiid-Jokic, only for Giannis to swoop in & grab his 3rd MVP.

It’s like Groundhog Day.

Embiid has 20 games straight of 25+ and counting.

0.4 ppg, but who's counting? Oh yeah not you.

Bucks are 1 game out of the 1 seed, dude you are bad at this.

Hmm these mistakes, it's like groundhog day...
Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

giberish · Post #1999 » by **giberish** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 10:47 am

Being the #1 seed isn't a big deal for MVP voting if it's a 53-win #1 seed with a bunch of teams right behind them and a couple teams in the other conference way ahead.

If a team wins a lot - like mid-60's win total - and they've got a clear best player than that guy's probably going to win MVP (this is why Curry was the overwhelming pick after 20 games - a 70 win pace and no other top-20 player on the team). But on a 50-55 win team than it takes more. When team quality is within a couple of games than you have to look further. (for instance) A 53-win Bucks team won't be seen as a decisive advantage for Giannis over a 50-win Philly team or a 47-win Denver team. Especially if the Bucks are seen as having Holiday and Middleton to support Giannis while Philly only has Harris and Denver pretty much a gaping void around Jokic.

In Giannis' 2 MVP seasons the Bucks were the best team in the entire league and at a 60+ win level. Also, with Harden as the main competition Giannis was seen as having a massive advantage on defense, while both Embiid and Jokic are among the best defensive players in the league this season. Giannis certainly could win this year but he's a clear 3rd at the moment.

Antinomy · Post #2000 » by **Antinomy** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 11:28 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Giannis is averaging 29/11/6/1/1.5 on 62TS%

He’s scored 25 points in 19 straight games (and counting).

He’s 0.1ppg from leading the league in scoring.

He’s led the Bucks to a Top 5 defense without Lopez & is probably the frontrunner for DPOY.

He has elite advanced stats across the board.

And the Bucks 0.5 games out of the #1 seed.

Gonna be a shame how people will have spent months debating about Curry, then Embiid-Jokic, only for Giannis to swoop in & grab his 3rd MVP.

It’s like Groundhog Day.

Embiid has 20 games straight of 25+ and counting.

0.4 ppg, but who's counting? Oh yeah not you.

Bucks are 1 game out of the 1 seed, dude you are bad at this.

Hmm these mistakes, it's like groundhog day...
Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

How’s it feel to know Embiid’s BEST season is just a run-of-the-mill Giannis year :lol:

AND he still hasn’t been better than Jokic either.

Who is the MVP so far? (Poll Re-set 1/14/22)