Harden, the under-the-radar bust

[Cruel_Ruin]

If they took Evans they could have gotten something really nice for Westbrook. Tyreke is the better player.

[Jimmy76]

You don't get it.

Westbrook and Durant are the two key cogs. The offense runs through them.

Where does Harden fit in?

It would be a completely different story if he was on a team without 2 dominate players.

option 3 ideally

getting rid of Green would solve a lot of the Thunder's problems

[slick_watts]

If they took Evans they could have gotten something really nice for Westbrook. Tyreke is the better player.

At the time of the draft, there was no coherent rationale for selecting Tyreke Evans. Harden, Rubio, and Curry were the players on the radar. Nobody really thought Evans would be as good as he's been so far, and his overall skill set was too similar to Westbrook's. That draft was about commiting to Westbrook, which is why the Thunder selected the SG of the group and not one of the PG's (Rubio / Curry).

Curry vs. Harden is a much more relevant discussion.

[blackstar]

Number 3 overall picks: OJ Mayo, Al Horford, Adam Morrison, Deron Williams, Ben Gordon, Carmelo Anthony, Mike Dunleavy, Pau Gasol, Darius Miles, Baron Davis, Raef LaFrentz.

So by your definition half the number three picks in the last 12 years are busts? Mayo, Morrison, Gordon, Dunleavy, Miles, and LaFrentz are not All Star caliber players.

At worst, IMO, Harden will be a sixth man type long term who will score off the bench, defend, and do a bit of everything. Which isn't a bad thing to have.

Gordon is an all-league caliber player. There aren't many players in the nba with his shooting ability, especially in the clutch. he's already proven, as demonstrated by singlehandedly keeping the bulls in the series against the celtics.

Mayo I believe has the potential to make a couple all-star appearances in his career. The guy can definitely be a #3 player on his team.

Miles would've gotten close to his potential had he not injured himself. He was bustin out that season. Lafrentz was a pretty decent big man, but yes for a #3 pick he's a bust.

The rest, no need to say anything.

And it's not like Harden just isn't asked to do too much on his team. The little that he's asked to do he can't even do very well. His shooting is abysmal, has no amazing speed or athleticism to speak of, and is undersized. The only thing that stands out for him is his bball iq, and which people on this board apparently have a hard-on for.

[slick_watts]

And it's not like Harden just isn't asked to do too much on his team. The little that he's asked to do he can't even do very well. His shooting is abysmal, has no amazing speed or athleticism to speak of, and is undersized. The only thing that stands out for him is his bball iq, and which people on this board apparently have a hard-on for.

Harden shot 37.5% from 3PT range last season as a 20 year old rookie, only six other players have done that at that age or younger. After the ASB he had a 60%+ TS.

Harden is more athletic than Tyreke Evans. Check out their athletic testing. Evans is much better controlling his body in traffic and getting off his shot at the rim, but Harden's quicker and a better leaper. Point being: he is at least an average athlete at the position, especially considering:

He is not undersized. Is Tyreke Evans undersized? I guess so, by your standards, since Harden and Evans have almost identical measurements.

Harden will be fine.

[Jeff23]

Harden is a great player. Harden just doesnt get involved in the offense because he plays in the second unit and Jeff Green needs to chuck his jumpshots when Durant isnt on the floor. Harden needs to be the leader of the second unit.

[blackstar]

Harden is a great player. Harden just doesnt get involved in the offense because he plays in the second unit and Jeff Green needs to chuck his jumpshots when Durant isnt on the floor. Harden needs to be the leader of the second unit.

Lmao. What on heaven's earth has Harden done to deserve being called a "great" player???? Are we going to start calling 2nd year #3 picks that scored 10 points on 40% shooting great players now?

His shooting percentage might not be abysmal, but for what he's asked to do on the team, which is basically shoot open 3's, it is. His form is awful and for the level of difficulty of shots he gets, he's severely disappointing given his expectations.

And yes, he's undersized. Listed at 6'5 but looks more like 6'3 or 6'4. And you damn right Evans is undersized. But just like Wade he has the amazing athleticism to make up for it. Trust me, if Evans was 6'6 or 6'7, he would've gone no later than 2nd in the draft and we'd be talking about him as the next Jordan.

[Jeff23]

I'm gonna say this.. if harden was picked by Golden State he would have been in the ROY race. Stats dont tell everything.

[slick_watts]

Lmao. What on heaven's earth has Harden done to deserve being called a "great" player???? Are we going to start calling 2nd year #3 picks that scored 10 points on 40% shooting great players now?

He was a 20 year old rookie (a young 20 years old, too). See my point on his 3PT%.

His shooting percentage might not be abysmal, but for what he's asked to do on the team, which is basically shoot open 3's, it is. His form is awful and for the level of difficulty of shots he gets, he's severely disappointing given his expectations.

37.5% 3PT is very good for a rookie, much less a rookie Harden's age. Also, he was frequently the #1/#2 option on the court with the second unit when Kevin Durant was on the bench. He was not great in this role, but the degree of difficult to his shots wasn't 'open spot up threes'.

Concerning expectations, I don't know what you are talking about. From day one most thought Harden would be scoring pop off the bench until he could supplant Thabo, who made All Defense 2nd Team so he's not some scrub. He'll overtake him eventually at his pace. I'm sure if Harden ended up on a cruddy team and was given the latitude to shoot when he wanted he would have put up far better numbers.

And yes, he's undersized. Listed at 6'5 but looks more like 6'3 or 6'4. And you damn right Evans is undersized. But just like Wade he has the amazing athleticism to make up for it. Trust me, if Evans was 6'6 or 6'7, he would've gone no later than 2nd in the draft and we'd be talking about him as the next Jordan.

He's 6'4" without shoes, about 6'5.25" in shoes. Same size and height at Tyreke Evans. Evans is not a much better athlete than Harden. They're both nowhere near Dwyane Wade's universe (or Michael Jordan's, for that matter). Harden's got a better vertical and is quicker than Evans. Evans is much better in the paint and finishing, but he's not an appreciably better athlete than Harden, if he is at all.

[blackstar]

Concerning expectations, I don't know what you are talking about. From day one most thought Harden would be scoring pop off the bench until he could supplant Thabo, who made All Defense 2nd Team so he's not some scrub. He'll overtake him eventually at his pace. I'm sure if Harden ended up on a cruddy team and was given the latitude to shoot when he wanted he would have put up far better numbers.

Then this, sir, is where we differ. I expect a #3 pick to come in and start right away without a doubt, especially on a below average team. Now that doesn't apply to players who were projected to be projects, btw, like Thabeet and Favors. But Harden was supposed to be the most NBA-ready player, the player most ready to step in and contribute right away, the surest thing. Furthermore, he would have the expectations of being an all-star caliber (or at least close to it) player. NOT someone who comes in and HOPES to one day supplant a role player in this league that was tossed away from his old team for a late first round pick. So if those were your and other people's expectations, then I can see why you're not disappointed.

[integralx2]

Harden really cant showcase, cause he got a good handful of players on his team, that are more important currently.

[slick_watts]

Concerning expectations, I don't know what you are talking about. From day one most thought Harden would be scoring pop off the bench until he could supplant Thabo, who made All Defense 2nd Team so he's not some scrub. He'll overtake him eventually at his pace. I'm sure if Harden ended up on a cruddy team and was given the latitude to shoot when he wanted he would have put up far better numbers.

Then this, sir, is where we differ. I expect a #3 pick to come in and start right away without a doubt, especially on a below average team. Now that doesn't apply to players who were projected to be projects, btw, like Thabeet and Favors. But Harden was supposed to be the most NBA-ready player, the player most ready to step in and contribute right away, the surest thing. Furthermore, he would have the expectations of being an all-star caliber (or at least close to it) player. NOT someone who comes in and HOPES to one day supplant a role player in this league that was tossed away from his old team for a late first round pick. So if those were your and other people's expectations, then I can see why you're not disappointed.

How many 20 year old SG's make the All Star game in their rookie year? Every young player is a project; you don't look at their rookie season or five games of their sophomore year and form a concrete opinion of their future productivity. There's certainly a range set for where Harden will end up as a player within the next few years, but nothing close to being set in stone considering his age. I wouldn't say 'All Star' caliber is outside of the range of possibilities. Joe Johnson made his first All Star game at age 26, and I would put Harden's rookie year against his (at the same age) any day.

So yeah. Harden spent most of his rookie year learning and contributing to a team that was competing for something tangible. He's had a rough start, but he's still young and he's still highly talented. You don't write off players like him this early, especially considering how high he was selected.

[dookieguy]

Mayo > Harden.

[Dr Positivity]

There's always these overreactions in the soph year. Then the player turns it around halfway through and has the standard 3rd year breakout

With that said Harden isn't going to go from scrub to 20/5/5 all-star. He'll probably go from scrub to 12/4/4 nice starter. I'm thinking Anthony Parker circa 07, 08. Shoots, passes, doesn't make mistakes. Enough to start and have a long career, but too high anyways

[Hendrix]

He's sucked this year but i still think he can be a 20/5/5 guy given the right situation down the road.

[excision]

Imagine if OKC had drafted Evans. It would be the most lethal back court of all time.

It would be talented for sure, but there would be a lack of shooting

[Flash Falcon X]

So you're saying Monta wasn't a chucker? That he didn't play for stats or his own stardom?

He was forced to chuck because he was one of the only Warriors healthy most of the time. The Warriors had the 2nd most player injuries in the history of the NBA last season. Yes, it was wrong for Monta to not trust Curry early on, but he was a rookie. It was either Monta would have the ball most of the time or Corey Maggette.

[Flash Falcon X]

I'm gonna say this.. if harden was picked by Golden State he would have been in the ROY race. Stats dont tell everything.

No he wouldn't. Monta would have given him the same treatment that he gave to Stephen Curry. The difference is that Stephen Curry was a good enough player to circumvent the adversity he faced his rookie year and still managed to shine in Golden State. Harden on the other hand would have probably been on the bench most of the season.

[dream_catcher_9]

lmao at calling a 21 year old who is 5 games into his sophomore year a bust. You sir have no clue. As slick mentioned a few times yet you ignored, Harden was super efficient after the all-star break while also playing solid defense. During the playoffs he had 2 great games, 3 terrible games, and 1 meh game. pretty normal for a rookie id say............

He is inconsistent as a 21 year old, bust id say.................get real

[GoLakers2011]

Imagine if OKC had drafted Evans. It would be the most lethal back court of all time.

They would be worse..Now Curry or Jennings is a different story. Evans is too ball dominant to succeed on a team where 2 players are better than him by a wide margin. He's almost useless off-ball

Westbrook is not better than Evans. Durant is.