Jazz GM knew Melo-drama loser will get DWill

[magnumt]

PG: Harris > Felton

[Scorpion King]

DWill is better than Melo and it isnt even close. Last years playoffs made that painfully obvious.

And Dwill/Amare is a million times better fit than Melo/Amare

I agree but is Melo/Amare/Billups >> Dwill/Amare ?

[paul07ss]

if cp3 comes in 2012 then I say this trade is better then getting D. Williams... hopefully its possible after the new cba

[SSUBluesman]

I love how everyone is arguing about Melo vs. DWill. The fact that the Jazz had been expecting and planning for this for some time just isn't important. But then again it makes the whole "OMG DWILL Forced out SLOANZZZ" nonsense look even sillier (since management knew they were moving Williams anyways) so I could see why some would want to ignore the issue.

This is also how trades SHOULD happen, not with the player being a whiny selfish douche while playing the victim. But that's right, I forgot how Melo is such an upstanding guy and how much he helped Denver by forcing his way out and publicly leveraging himself to one team.

[Tazo]

I love how everyone is arguing about Melo vs. DWill. The fact that the Jazz had been expecting and planning for this for some time just isn't important. But then again it makes the whole "OMG DWILL Forced out SLOANZZZ" nonsense look even sillier (since management knew they were moving Williams anyways) so I could see why some would want to ignore the issue.

This is also how trades SHOULD happen, not with the player being a whiny selfish douche while playing the victim. But that's right, I forgot how Melo is such an upstanding guy and how much he helped Denver by forcing his way out and publicly leveraging himself to one team.

This. I don't really believe Deron forced out Sloan. And Kevin O'Connor was very smart in doing this and realizing Deron was unlikely to resign there. First they get rid of his best college friend in Dee Brown after he reliably stepped in for Derek Fisher in the playoffs, which I heard was because they didn't think he was a good influence for some reason. Then they get rid of another close friend of his in Ronnie Brewer. Then they let Wes Matthews, Boozer and Korver walk, and Deron got to watch 3 of them join another team and come back and beat them in Utah. Must've been painful for a competitor like him.

[Shaheen]

Half of the Melo trade was marketability. Although most people would agree that Williams is the better player he wouldn't bring the hype that Carmelo did.

But as far as talent I think Williams fits a lot better than Melo does. And the Knicks probably could have kept more assets as well. Williams + Amare would be scary.

And the whole Billups argument is really pointless because everyone knows hes going back to Denver this off season.

[magnumt]

Half of the Melo trade was marketability. Although most people would agree that Williams is the better player he wouldn't bring the hype that Carmelo did.

But as far as talent I think Williams fits a lot better than Melo does. And the Knicks probably could have kept more assets as well. Williams + Amare would be scary.

And the whole Billups argument is really pointless because everyone knows hes going back to Denver this off season.

That's kinda hard bro since he's under Contract with NY next Season.

--Mags

[Shaheen]

Half of the Melo trade was marketability. Although most people would agree that Williams is the better player he wouldn't bring the hype that Carmelo did.

But as far as talent I think Williams fits a lot better than Melo does. And the Knicks probably could have kept more assets as well. Williams + Amare would be scary.

And the whole Billups argument is really pointless because everyone knows hes going back to Denver this off season.

That's kinda hard bro since he's under Contract with NY next Season.

--Mags

My mistake. But obviously Billups is not staying long term so he can't really be viewed as a long term asset of the Melo trade.

[omerome]

Half of the Melo trade was marketability. Although most people would agree that Williams is the better player he wouldn't bring the hype that Carmelo did.

But as far as talent I think Williams fits a lot better than Melo does. And the Knicks probably could have kept more assets as well. Williams + Amare would be scary.

And the whole Billups argument is really pointless because everyone knows hes going back to Denver this off season.

Deron Williams was not even part of the conversation when the Knicks were talking to Denver so that point is moot about comparing him and Melo with marketability. And even if it was, that doesn't mean that Utah would even consider a proposal with New York in the first place.

Secondly while that may be true that DWill would fit better than Melo, again the trade wasn't simply about Melo vs. DWill. Billups will also get his contract picked up next season to play with the Knicks so he isn't going back to Denver this off season...

[magnumt]

Half of the Melo trade was marketability. Although most people would agree that Williams is the better player he wouldn't bring the hype that Carmelo did.

But as far as talent I think Williams fits a lot better than Melo does. And the Knicks probably could have kept more assets as well. Williams + Amare would be scary.

And the whole Billups argument is really pointless because everyone knows hes going back to Denver this off season.

That's kinda hard bro since he's under Contract with NY next Season.

--Mags

My mistake. But obviously Billups is not staying long term so he can't really be viewed as a long term asset of the Melo trade.

You can tell the future? Care sharing the Lotto numbers?

No but seriously, there's nothing written in stone. He could return in 2012 to Denver or he could stay as NY's PG if they chose to go after a Big Man then.

Too many variables in play for ANYTHING to be certain. The biggest being the impending new CBA.

Heck I wouldn't be surprised at all if at the end of his Knick-tenure they offer him some kind of Organizational Position. He's not only been a great asset to the Locker-room, but also as a Developer of talent (namely Toney Douglas).

--Mags

[magnumt]

Half of the Melo trade was marketability. Although most people would agree that Williams is the better player he wouldn't bring the hype that Carmelo did.

But as far as talent I think Williams fits a lot better than Melo does. And the Knicks probably could have kept more assets as well. Williams + Amare would be scary.

And the whole Billups argument is really pointless because everyone knows hes going back to Denver this off season.

That's kinda hard bro since he's under Contract with NY next Season.

--Mags

My mistake. But obviously Billups is not staying long term so he can't really be viewed as a long term asset of the Melo trade.

You can tell the future? Care sharing the Lotto numbers?

No but seriously, there's nothing written in stone. He could return in 2012 to Denver or he could stay as NY's PG if they chose to go after a Big Man then.

Too many variables in play for ANYTHING to be certain. The biggest being the impending new CBA.

Heck I wouldn't be surprised at all if at the end of his Knick-tenure they offer him some kind of Organizational Position. He's not only been a great asset to the Locker-room, but also as a Developer of talent (namely Toney Douglas).

--Mags

[Shaheen]

Deron Williams was not even part of the conversation when the Knicks were talking to Denver so that point is moot about comparing him and Melo with marketability. And even if it was, that doesn't mean that Utah would even consider a proposal with New York in the first place.

Secondly while that may be true that DWill would fit better than Melo, again the trade wasn't simply about Melo vs. DWill. Billups will also get his contract picked up next season to play with the Knicks so he isn't going back to Denver this off season...

Obviously.

Which is why the Knicks should have been talking to Utah the minute Ujri demanded their entire starting lineup for one player. They obviously would consider a proposal from NY since their GM has been quoted as potentially doing a deal with them.

Again Billups is only in NY for another season. Williams is more experienced, better, and more sensible fit for the Knicks than Anthony will ever be.

[Shaheen]

You can tell the future? Care sharing the Lotto numbers?

No but seriously, there's nothing written in stone. He could return in 2012 to Denver or he could stay as NY's PG if they chose to go after a Big Man then.

Too many variables in play for ANYTHING to be certain. The biggest being the impending new CBA.

Heck I wouldn't be surprised at all if at the end of his Knick-tenure they offer him some kind of Organizational Position. He's not only been a great asset to the Locker-room, but also as a Developer of talent (namely Toney Douglas).

--Mags

Even if he does hes gonna decline rapidly pretty soon. You don't need to be a fortune teller to know that. I think long term it would have been better to get Williams.

It's not like NY has any chance of winning a title this year with Turiaf at starting center and no bench to speak of. These things take time.

[Shook Ones]

so wats he a ninja now?

[magnumt]

Deron Williams was not even part of the conversation when the Knicks were talking to Denver so that point is moot about comparing him and Melo with marketability. And even if it was, that doesn't mean that Utah would even consider a proposal with New York in the first place.

Secondly while that may be true that DWill would fit better than Melo, again the trade wasn't simply about Melo vs. DWill. Billups will also get his contract picked up next season to play with the Knicks so he isn't going back to Denver this off season...

Obviously.

Which is why the Knicks should have been talking to Utah the minute Ujri demanded their entire starting lineup for one player. They obviously would consider a proposal from NY since their GM has been quoted as potentially doing a deal with them.

Again Billups is only in NY for another season. Williams is more experienced, better, and more sensible fit for the Knicks than Anthony will ever be.

- After Sloan left, most GMs assumed Deron was not available (...yet). Heck, King was contacted by O'Connor, not the other way around.

- King also has a better relationship with O'Connor going back to their Philly days (something the both of them acknowledged).

- Was their a lacking of due-diligence just before getting Melo? Ofcourse, Donnie admits that. But let's not act like NY got robbed, and is a MUCH worse Team because of it.

- At the end of the day both NY and Denver got what they wanted (something that can't always be said for Mega-Deals in the NBA). NY also got more veteran leadership by also adding Billups over Felton (both on and off the court, as I alluded in my prior post above).

- There's also the possibility of NY going after Billups or Paul in 2012 (not saying it'll happen, just saying it's a possibility).

So in short: Not everything is as "obvious" as it should seem.

--Mags

[Conrad420]

Knick fan's, would you guys rather have Dwill than Melo? Personally I think Dwill would have been a better fit for the Knicks.

I'd take Melo over Dwill all day.

the fact melo wanted to go to NY and hes from there makes me think the knicks made the right choice. but melo isnt better then dwill...

[magnumt]

You can tell the future? Care sharing the Lotto numbers?

No but seriously, there's nothing written in stone. He could return in 2012 to Denver or he could stay as NY's PG if they chose to go after a Big Man then.

Too many variables in play for ANYTHING to be certain. The biggest being the impending new CBA.

Heck I wouldn't be surprised at all if at the end of his Knick-tenure they offer him some kind of Organizational Position. He's not only been a great asset to the Locker-room, but also as a Developer of talent (namely Toney Douglas).

--Mags

Even if he does hes gonna decline rapidly pretty soon. You don't need to be a fortune teller to know that. I think long term it would have been better to get Williams.

It's not like NY has any chance of winning a title this year with Turiaf at starting center and no bench to speak of. These things take time.

- Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Elton Brand, etc all heard the same thing too.

The pundits aren't always right.

- Billups also has an EXCELLENT health and workout regime (ala Amar'e). I think they'll be fine. And since Billups arrival, Douglas has stepped up his Game into a more reliable backup PG in just his Sophomore Year (something I alluded to in my prior posts in this Thread too).

- In closing, who said anything about NY wining a Title this Year? Most of the Media and fanbase knows we're not. We're just going to use the Playoff Experiences to help the Team grow.

The Team has gelled MUCH faster though than anyone (myself included) would've though (and I alluded to this in another recent GB Thread too).

--Mags

[nytonm]

An Amar'e/Williams pick and roll would have been nuts. Just unguardable. We probably could have kept Gallo and or Mozgov too.

sigh

[Shaheen]

- After Sloan left, most GMs assumed Deron was not available (...yet). Heck, King was contacted by O'Connor, not the other way around.

- King also has a better relationship with O'Connor going back to their Philly days (something the both of them acknowledged).

- Was their a lacking of due-diligence just before getting Melo? Ofcourse, Donnie admits that. But let's not act like NY got robbed, and is a MUCH worse Team because of it.

- At the end of the day both NY and Denver got what they wanted (something that can't always be said for Mega-Deals in the NBA). NY also got more veteran leadership by also adding Billups over Felton (both on and off the court, as I alluded in my prior post above).

- There's also the possibility of NY going after Billups or Paul in 2012 (not saying it'll happen, just saying it's a possibility).

So in short: Not everything is as "obvious" as it should seem.

--Mags

Which is why assuming is not good for GMs. Walsh should have pursued Williams like King did.

Their relationship isn't that big of a deal either. A trades a trade.

And no NYC didn't get robbed. Far from it. But they went for the wrong player.

And no theres not. Chris Paul isn't signing for the vets minimum.

[Shaheen]

- Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Elton Brand, etc all heard the same thing too.

The pundits aren't always right.

- Billups also has an EXCELLENT health and workout regime (ala Amar'e). I think they'll be fine. And since Billups arrival, Douglas has stepped up his Game into a more reliable backup PG in just his Sophomore Year (something I alluded to in my prior posts in this Thread too).

- In closing, who said anything about NY wining a Title this Year? Most of the Media and fanbase knows we're not. We're just going to use the Playoff Experiences to help the Team grow.

The Team has gelled MUCH faster though than anyone (myself included) would've though (and I alluded to this in another recent GB Thread too).

--Mags

Elton Brand is on the decline. And those players want to stay where they are. Why would Billups bother staying in NY if he's from Denver and was happiest there. It seems clear that he wasn't very happy with the trade.

I'm not saying anyone thinks NY is winning a title. I'm saying that Billups is a short term asset and it's going to take the Knicks at least 1 or 2 years to become title contenders.