Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?

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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#21 » by ImissJordan » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:35 pm

I don't think they do.

I mean, geez...his first two seasons he came off the bench as a skinny kid, then he only played half a year (the 98-99 lockout). Since then, he's averaged roughly 28 points per game in 12 regular seasons and won five NBA championships. He's also been paired with Shaq for much of his career, which meant sharing the ball more than he wanted to throughout his first eight years in the league. :lol:

Which leads to the volume thing...yeah. Kobe likes to shoot. Still, some would have you believe he's on an Iverson level of inefficiency when that's pretty damn far from the truth. He's a guy who believes he can get the job done better than anybody else - and while that's true in many cases, it's also led to him taking WAY more shots than he should have taken.

That helps to explain his conversion rate in the clutch, where he's demonstrated that he CAN make the impossible, game-determining shots but also tries to do it too often. It's been to his own detriment, because any casual observer can clearly see that he is an extremely effective option with the game on the line.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#22 » by bullsnewdynasty » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:37 pm

People are too obsessed with stats in general. They are nice to get a picture of the player but don't tell the whole story at all.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#23 » by Vincent 666 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:42 pm

parapooper wrote:Kobe has nice stats. The problem is that the media and his rabid fanbase claim he is top10 all-time,.



Are you saying that the only people who have Kobe in the top 10 are his rabid fans and not anyone else?

:lol:

Kobe is clearly top 10.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#24 » by ImissJordan » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:51 pm

Vincent 666 wrote:
parapooper wrote:Kobe has nice stats. The problem is that the media and his rabid fanbase claim he is top10 all-time,.



Are you saying that the only people who have Kobe in the top 10 are his rabid fans and not anyone else?

:lol:

Kobe is clearly top 10.


Yeah...I mean, if you have him anywhere from 8-12, then I think that's fairly acceptable.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#25 » by parapooper » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:56 pm

Vincent 666 wrote:
parapooper wrote:Kobe has nice stats. The problem is that the media and his rabid fanbase claim he is top10 all-time,.



Are you saying that the only people who have Kobe in the top 10 are his rabid fans and not anyone else?

:lol:

Kobe is clearly top 10.


No, I'm saying that it has been repeated in the media for so often and so long that most people believe it. Americans have been indoctrinated by religion/politics/consumerism to such a degree that they take every nonsense as truth if it is repeated often enough. See also: WMD in Iraq, they hate us for our freedom, evolution is just a theory, global warming is a hoax, Obama is a leftist and other nonsense. The numbers say Kobe is barely top20 yet you think he is clearly top10 based on what?
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#26 » by parapooper » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:57 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:People are too obsessed with stats in general. They are nice to get a picture of the player but don't tell the whole story at all.


They are pretty consistent with the story for every great player except Kobe.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#27 » by Brooklyn718 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:58 pm

parapooper wrote:
Vincent 666 wrote:
parapooper wrote:Kobe has nice stats. The problem is that the media and his rabid fanbase claim he is top10 all-time,.



Are you saying that the only people who have Kobe in the top 10 are his rabid fans and not anyone else?

:lol:

Kobe is clearly top 10.


No, I'm saying that it has been repeated in the media for so often and so long that most people believe it. Americans have been indoctrinated by religion/politics/consumerism to such a degree that they take every nonsense as truth if it is repeated often enough. See also: WMD in Iraq, they hate us for our freedom, evolution is just a theory, global warming is a hoax, Obama is a leftist and other nonsense. The numbers say Kobe is barely top20 yet you think he is clearly top10 based on what?


Troll post...Even the haters wouldn't spit feces like this
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#28 » by EarlTheGoat » Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:28 pm

parapooper wrote:
Vincent 666 wrote:
parapooper wrote:Kobe has nice stats. The problem is that the media and his rabid fanbase claim he is top10 all-time,.



Are you saying that the only people who have Kobe in the top 10 are his rabid fans and not anyone else?

:lol:

Kobe is clearly top 10.


No, I'm saying that it has been repeated in the media for so often and so long that most people believe it. Americans have been indoctrinated by religion/politics/consumerism to such a degree that they take every nonsense as truth if it is repeated often enough. See also: WMD in Iraq, they hate us for our freedom, evolution is just a theory, global warming is a hoax, Obama is a leftist and other nonsense. The numbers say Kobe is barely top20 yet you think he is clearly top10 based on what?


Top-20? He`s not even that. Top 2000 at best, I mean guy sucks and is overrated as hell. The media lies, I dont.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#29 » by Shot Clock » Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:34 pm

Winsome Gerbil wrote:
50% because despite what realgm will tell you, stats, and in PARTICULAR efficiency stats, do not tell you everything, or even most of the things, about the strength of a player.

In fact they often miss nearly everything that makes a great player great. As much as Kobe scored a lot of points, its the complete game, the All Defense team memberships, the rebounding, assistmaking etc. etc. that separate a guy who's just a scorer from a guy who's a winner.


So how, do stats not capture, assists, rebounding....All defense (I mean the total of his all defense teams would in fact lead you to believe he is a much better defender then he is)

I'm not sure if you are trying to say efficiency stats don't capture these, which is true but thats why the other stats exist. You look at the total stats and then look at efficiency to get a more complete picture of the player.

I'd actually go 50% youtube because his fan base seems to live for the clips where he succeeds.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#30 » by Don Draper » Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:42 pm

parapooper wrote:The numbers say Kobe is barely top20 yet you think he is clearly top10 based on what?


:lol:
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#31 » by Ruhiel » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:10 pm

Don Draper wrote:
parapooper wrote:The numbers say Kobe is barely top20 yet you think he is clearly top10 based on what?


:lol:


NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares

Code: Select all

Rank   Player   WS
1.   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*   273.41
2.   Wilt Chamberlain*   247.26
3.   Karl Malone*   234.62
4.   Michael Jordan*   214.02
5.   John Stockton*   207.70
6.   Artis Gilmore*   189.65
7.   Oscar Robertson*   189.21
8.   Shaquille O'Neal   181.71
9.   Julius Erving*   181.11
10.   Moses Malone*   179.17
11.   David Robinson*   178.67
12.   Charles Barkley*   177.21
13.   Kevin Garnett   174.68
14.   Reggie Miller   174.40
15.   Tim Duncan   170.00
16.   Bill Russell*   163.51
17.   Hakeem Olajuwon*   162.77
18.   Jerry West*   162.58
19.   Dirk Nowitzki   161.30
20.   Dan Issel*   157.82
21.   Kobe Bryant   156.27


Once we penalize ABA players.

Code: Select all

1.    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*    273.41
2.    Wilt Chamberlain*    247.26
3.    Karl Malone*    234.62
4.    Michael Jordan*    214.02
5.    John Stockton*    207.70
6.    Oscar Robertson*    189.21
7.    Shaquille O'Neal    181.71
8.    David Robinson*    178.67
9.    Charles Barkley*    177.21
[b]10.    Kevin Garnett    174.68[/b]
11.    Reggie Miller    174.40
[b]12.    Tim Duncan    170.00[/b]
13.    Moses Malone*    167.07
14.    Bill Russell*    163.51
15.    Hakeem Olajuwon*    162.77
16.    Jerry West*    162.58
17.    Dirk Nowitzki    161.30
[b]18.    Kobe Bryant    156.27[/b]
19.    Magic Johnson*    155.79
20.    Robert Parish*    147.00

What are we saying Bryant is top 10 in again? career longevity?
Who you want to carry your team on both sides of the ball?
or One side of the ball?


By himself Kobe is not top 10 in generating wins. Although other players had better single seasons it seems were talking longevity/careers here!

Bryant at age 33 just had 10.3 win shares for regular season and 35% usage. Duncan+Garnett two big men still active. Where will KB end up?
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#32 » by Apathy » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:28 pm

I agree that Kobe is barely top 20.

People act as if he's the best player of his generation. Say what?
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#33 » by Hye4Life » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:30 pm

OMG, according to winshares Bill Russell, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Jerry West, and Kobe Bryant aren't top 10.... Yet John Stockton is.... How could we have been so blind to see this???

I don't need a stat called Winshares to tell me whether someone contributes to wins or not. Just look at his career... 7 Finals, 5 Rings, multiple 50 win season while putting up at least 25-5-5... I'd say he's doing something right on the court. Those are the only stats I need to see,
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#34 » by USA » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:34 pm

Stats always tell the full story. :clown:
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#35 » by Don Draper » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:36 pm

Ruhiel wrote:NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares

Code: Select all

Rank   Player   WS
1.   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*   273.41
2.   Wilt Chamberlain*   247.26
3.   Karl Malone*   234.62
4.   Michael Jordan*   214.02
5.   John Stockton*   207.70
6.   Artis Gilmore*   189.65
7.   Oscar Robertson*   189.21
8.   Shaquille O'Neal   181.71
9.   Julius Erving*   181.11
10.   Moses Malone*   179.17
11.   David Robinson*   178.67
12.   Charles Barkley*   177.21
13.   Kevin Garnett   174.68
14.   Reggie Miller   174.40
15.   Tim Duncan   170.00
16.   Bill Russell*   163.51
17.   Hakeem Olajuwon*   162.77
18.   Jerry West*   162.58
19.   Dirk Nowitzki   161.30
20.   Dan Issel*   157.82
21.   Kobe Bryant   156.27


Once we penalize ABA players.

Code: Select all

1.    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*    273.41
2.    Wilt Chamberlain*    247.26
3.    Karl Malone*    234.62
4.    Michael Jordan*    214.02
5.    John Stockton*    207.70
6.    Oscar Robertson*    189.21
7.    Shaquille O'Neal    181.71
8.    David Robinson*    178.67
9.    Charles Barkley*    177.21
[b]10.    Kevin Garnett    174.68[/b]
11.    Reggie Miller    174.40
[b]12.    Tim Duncan    170.00[/b]
13.    Moses Malone*    167.07
14.    Bill Russell*    163.51
15.    Hakeem Olajuwon*    162.77
16.    Jerry West*    162.58
17.    Dirk Nowitzki    161.30
[b]18.    Kobe Bryant    156.27[/b]
19.    Magic Johnson*    155.79
20.    Robert Parish*    147.00

What are we saying Bryant is top 10 in again? career longevity?
Who you want to carry your team on both sides of the ball?
or One side of the ball?


By himself Kobe is not top 10 in generating wins. Although other players had better single seasons it seems were talking longevity/careers here!

Bryant at age 33 just had 10.3 win shares for regular season and 35% usage. Duncan+Garnett two big men still active. Where will KB end up?


Career win shares? Really? I can't tell if you're being serious.

I'm a tenured Kobe hater and I can say with certainty he's in the top 10.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#36 » by Tubal » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:38 pm

How about check All-NBA and MVP awards?

Kobe has been All-NBA and All-NBA Defense every year since '99-'00. Almost always first team.

So the "panel" thinks he's been one of the top two guards in the NBA for the last 10 years straight.

And they also think he's been one of the top 2 defensive guards in the NBA 9 of the last 10 years.
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#37 » by Brooklyn718 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:39 pm

Reggie Miller better than Kobe lol.. I love Stats..forget about watching them play!
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#38 » by ShabazzMuhammad » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:41 pm

Apathy wrote:I agree that Kobe is barely top 20.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#39 » by Vincent 666 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:51 pm

Ruhiel wrote:

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares


Is that how you judge players? on win shares?

lol

I guess you believe Kobe was better than Shaq in the playoffs in 2001......


What are we saying Bryant is top 10 in again?


His overall career. Not just win shares lol

Hes pretty clearly in the top 10
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Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant? 

Post#40 » by Vincent 666 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:59 pm

ImissJordan wrote:
Vincent 666 wrote:
parapooper wrote:Kobe has nice stats. The problem is that the media and his rabid fanbase claim he is top10 all-time,.



Are you saying that the only people who have Kobe in the top 10 are his rabid fans and not anyone else?

:lol:

Kobe is clearly top 10.


Yeah...I mean, if you have him anywhere from 8-12, then I think that's fairly acceptable.



Theres the big 6.

Then theres Shaq Duncan and Hakeem.

At worst Kobe is 10. I have him 9th ahead of Hakeem and Kobe is really close to being ahead of Duncan

Who are the other two players that would bump Kobe to 12th?

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