Josh Smith and Monta Ellis got screwed! (again...)

[Saciid11]

Monte Ellis??? Kyle Lowery is more deserving, one of the best defensive point in the league...

[blumeany]

I think the coaches got it right this year. They took more complete players vs. stats guys. I'm hoping this will translate into a more competitive all-star game.

[pross]

As a Boston fan, Pierce definitely deserves to be there over Rondo. He had a slow start but has been flat out balling lately

[Sothron]

I find it unreal that apparently Josh Smith will never make an All Star game. This year:

Josh Smith:
Usage: 23.0
Per: 19.65

Deng:
Usage: 19.5
Per: 16.29

Iggy:
Usage: 18.4
Per: 18.83

There is simply no reason Smith should not make it in over these guys. Deng has missed at least a third of the season for crying out loud. Look at Smith's usage/per for the last several seasons and compare it to other players that got in over him. It is a joke. There is literally no way someone that plays as well as he does should not be an All Star. There is clearly a bias about him that means he will never make the All Star game no matter how gaudy his stats routinely are or how well the Hawks do as a team.

The Bulls have played 28 games: LINK

Luol Deng has played 21 games: LINK

21 / 28 = .75, or 3/4, or greater than 2/3.

If you want to throw out one or two stats and bitch about them, how bout Cliff Levingston does:

Josh Smith:
TS%: .497
Turnovers: 2.4

Luol Deng:
TS%: .509
Turnovers: 1.7

Andre Iguodala:
TS%: .532
Turnovers: 1.9

A power forward with less than .50 TS%? Is that even possible?

Disclaimer: Cliff Levingston is not a Josh Smith hater, just proving a point.

Rebound rate:

Smith 15.4
Deng 10.9
Iggy 10.5

Defensive Rebound rate:

Smith 24.4
Deng 16.5
Iggy 17.5

Estimated Wins Added:

Smith 3.6
Deng 2.3
Iggy 3.8

Value Added:

Smith 107.20
Deng 69.00
Iggy 113.00


Steals per game:

Smith 1.46 (tops in the NBA among power forwards)
Deng 1.19
Iggy 1.77

Assists per game:

Smith 3.2 (second in the NBA among power forwards, tweener Diaw considered as a PF is tops)
Deng 2.5
Iggy 5.2

Blocks per game:

Smith 2.04 (second in the NBA among power forwards, Ibaka considered a PF is tops)
Deng .71
Iggy .50

Double Doubls:

Smith 10 so far
Deng 4 so far
Iggy 4 so far

I can keep going with stats. If you don't want to consider usage and PER then almost every other metric is going to show in a case by case basis that Josh Smith is clearly the superior player over Deng and Iggy. Any sum total like PER is going to show that Smith is superior. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why Josh Smith was passed over (again) for inferior players.

[old rem]

Monte Ellis??? Kyle Lowery is more deserving, one of the best defensive point in the league...

Ellis has earned All Star the past several years but GSW is...like the Hawks, a team that gets little spotlight or credit.

Typically All Stars will include several players who get picked based on times past,even if now they are less effective than several other players who get less PR.

[Rapcity_11]

Rebound rate:

Smith 15.4
Deng 10.9
Iggy 10.5

Defensive Rebound rate:

Smith 24.4
Deng 16.5
Iggy 17.5

Estimated Wins Added:

Smith 3.6
Deng 2.3
Iggy 3.8

Value Added:

Smith 107.20
Deng 69.00
Iggy 113.00


Steals per game:

Smith 1.46 (tops in the NBA among power forwards)
Deng 1.19
Iggy 1.77

Assists per game:

Smith 3.2 (second in the NBA among power forwards, tweener Diaw considered as a PF is tops)
Deng 2.5
Iggy 5.2

Blocks per game:

Smith 2.04 (second in the NBA among power forwards, Ibaka considered a PF is tops)
Deng .71
Iggy .50

Double Doubls:

Smith 10 so far
Deng 4 so far
Iggy 4 so far

I can keep going with stats. If you don't want to consider usage and PER then almost every other metric is going to show in a case by case basis that Josh Smith is clearly the superior player over Deng and Iggy. Any sum total like PER is going to show that Smith is superior. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why Josh Smith was passed over (again) for inferior players.

You do realize that the box-score doesn't catch everything right?And on defense, it catches very little at all. A guy like Deng will lose a box-score comparison to players a lot worse than Smith.

[betta1]

All you need to do is think about it this way: switch out Deng for Smith on the Hawks and they probably are lottery bound. Switch out Smith for Deng on the Bulls and Miami is sleeping a lot less at night.

[panthermark]

Both Monta and Smith are players who's stats and highlights seem to be much bigger than their impact.

Monta is putting up big numbers, but his TS% isn't very good... And despite his impressive scoring and 1.7 steals per game, Golden State is 9-14 and ranked 26th in defense.

[Rapcity_11]

All you need to do is think about it this way: switch out Deng for Smith on the Hawks and they probably are lottery bound. Switch out Smith for Deng on the Bulls and Miami is sleeping a lot less at night.

No, both teams get worse. Removing Deng would leave a massive hole at the 3 for the Bulls.

[panthermark]

All you need to do is think about it this way: switch out Deng for Smith on the Hawks and they probably are lottery bound. Switch out Smith for Deng on the Bulls and Miami is sleeping a lot less at night.

On a video game....yes.

In real life...no.

If the Hawks had a true center so that Horford could play PF. Deng would be a MUCH better fit for Atlanta.

[orlandomanic]

Both Monta and Smith are players who's stats and highlights seem to be much bigger than their impact.

Monta is putting up big numbers, but his TS% isn't very good... And despite his impressive scoring and 1.7 steals per game, Golden State is 9-14 and ranked 26th in defense.

that is wrong about Josh Smith. i always think that he is one of the few guys that his stats don't reflect his impact, because of his Defense impact (just like Kyle Lowry)

[panthermark]

Both Monta and Smith are players who's stats and highlights seem to be much bigger than their impact.

Monta is putting up big numbers, but his TS% isn't very good... And despite his impressive scoring and 1.7 steals per game, Golden State is 9-14 and ranked 26th in defense.

that is wrong about Josh Smith. i always think that he is one of the few guys that his stats don't reflect his impact, because of his Defense impact (just like Kyle Lowry)

Stats don't reflect Deng's impact on defense because he does not get a lot of blocks or steals (think Prince). Smith has the blocks and steals in his stats. (Heck, Tyrus used to have a lot of blocks and steals, but he sucked on D)

I think Smith should have made it this year...but it should have been over his own teammate.

[Cliff Levingston]

I find it unreal that apparently Josh Smith will never make an All Star game. This year:

Josh Smith:
Usage: 23.0
Per: 19.65

Deng:
Usage: 19.5
Per: 16.29

Iggy:
Usage: 18.4
Per: 18.83

There is simply no reason Smith should not make it in over these guys. Deng has missed at least a third of the season for crying out loud. Look at Smith's usage/per for the last several seasons and compare it to other players that got in over him. It is a joke. There is literally no way someone that plays as well as he does should not be an All Star. There is clearly a bias about him that means he will never make the All Star game no matter how gaudy his stats routinely are or how well the Hawks do as a team.

The Bulls have played 28 games: LINK

Luol Deng has played 21 games: LINK

21 / 28 = .75, or 3/4, or greater than 2/3.

If you want to throw out one or two stats and bitch about them, how bout Cliff Levingston does:

Josh Smith:
TS%: .497
Turnovers: 2.4

Luol Deng:
TS%: .509
Turnovers: 1.7

Andre Iguodala:
TS%: .532
Turnovers: 1.9

A power forward with less than .50 TS%? Is that even possible?

Disclaimer: Cliff Levingston is not a Josh Smith hater, just proving a point.

Rebound rate:

Smith 15.4
Deng 10.9
Iggy 10.5

Defensive Rebound rate:

Smith 24.4
Deng 16.5
Iggy 17.5

Estimated Wins Added:

Smith 3.6
Deng 2.3
Iggy 3.8

Value Added:

Smith 107.20
Deng 69.00
Iggy 113.00


Steals per game:

Smith 1.46 (tops in the NBA among power forwards)
Deng 1.19
Iggy 1.77

Assists per game:

Smith 3.2 (second in the NBA among power forwards, tweener Diaw considered as a PF is tops)
Deng 2.5
Iggy 5.2

Blocks per game:

Smith 2.04 (second in the NBA among power forwards, Ibaka considered a PF is tops)
Deng .71
Iggy .50

Double Doubls:

Smith 10 so far
Deng 4 so far
Iggy 4 so far

I can keep going with stats. If you don't want to consider usage and PER then almost every other metric is going to show in a case by case basis that Josh Smith is clearly the superior player over Deng and Iggy. Any sum total like PER is going to show that Smith is superior. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why Josh Smith was passed over (again) for inferior players.

Now that's how to make an argument! :applaud:

Deng got in mostly because he deserved to last year but didn't get in. His stats have been worse this year despite his impact being the same. Cliff Levingston wouldn't have had a problem with him missing it as i think he's being included not just because he's a very good player but also as a salute to the Bulls as a team.

Which begs the question: If Josh Smith is superior to the Luol Deng as a player, and clearly you would say that Al Horford and Joe Johnson are as well... why are the Bulls so good? How can the Hawks have 3 better players than the Bulls' 2nd best player and be a considerably worse team (even last year when Horford was healthy)?

[nbazombie]

Monta is an empty stat vessel. It would have been a travesty to see him get in over Nash.

[r1terrell23]

I find it unreal that apparently Josh Smith will never make an All Star game. This year:

Josh Smith:
Usage: 23.0
Per: 19.65

Deng:
Usage: 19.5
Per: 16.29

Iggy:
Usage: 18.4
Per: 18.83

There is simply no reason Smith should not make it in over these guys. Deng has missed at least a third of the season for crying out loud. Look at Smith's usage/per for the last several seasons and compare it to other players that got in over him. It is a joke. There is literally no way someone that plays as well as he does should not be an All Star. There is clearly a bias about him that means he will never make the All Star game no matter how gaudy his stats routinely are or how well the Hawks do as a team.

A joke? Luol Deng is a very good two way player on the team with the leagues best record. Deng is essential to the Bulls title hopes end of story. If anything Joe Johnson should have been off the team in favor of Josh Smith.

[MaceCase]

I don't feel comfortable putting Josh Smith with Monta in the same sentence as snubs. Nowhere close as far as tragedies go.

[youngcrev]

Rebound rate:

Smith 15.4
Deng 10.9
Iggy 10.5

Defensive Rebound rate:

Smith 24.4
Deng 16.5
Iggy 17.5

Estimated Wins Added:

Smith 3.6
Deng 2.3
Iggy 3.8

Value Added:

Smith 107.20
Deng 69.00
Iggy 113.00


Steals per game:

Smith 1.46 (tops in the NBA among power forwards)
Deng 1.19
Iggy 1.77

Assists per game:

Smith 3.2 (second in the NBA among power forwards, tweener Diaw considered as a PF is tops)
Deng 2.5
Iggy 5.2

Blocks per game:

Smith 2.04 (second in the NBA among power forwards, Ibaka considered a PF is tops)
Deng .71
Iggy .50

Double Doubls:

Smith 10 so far
Deng 4 so far
Iggy 4 so far

I can keep going with stats. If you don't want to consider usage and PER then almost every other metric is going to show in a case by case basis that Josh Smith is clearly the superior player over Deng and Iggy. Any sum total like PER is going to show that Smith is superior. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why Josh Smith was passed over (again) for inferior players.

Those ones you posted point to Iguodala being the superior player... All this shows is that Smith is better at rebounding (which you show 3 different times for some reason) and blocking shots, all of which you'd expect from a PF.

I'll throw some 82games stats out there:

Simple rating:
Smith +4.9
Iguodala: +5.9
Deng: +5.1

PER differential (at most played position)
Smith: +3.8
Iguodala: +10.9
Deng: +3.9

Players get snubbed every year and Smith doesn't have a clear advantage over anyone that was named. The best argument would probably be over Deron Williams due to NJ's record, but Deron is also a much better player than Josh.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

If Josh Smith got screwed, then it is because of Joe Johnson

This

[ndnow]

Ummm andrea bargnani has been much better than josh smith this year and he wasn't chosen.

[DuckIII]

There is simply no reason Smith should not make it in over these guys.

There are reasons, you just don't like them. Deng and Iggy are both in a similar situation. They have both had excellent careers, never been allstars, and are playing for two of the winningest teams in the NBA (Chicago being the actual winningest of all). They are being rewarded for their good careers and their teams are being rewarded. You may not like that it works this way, but it does work this way, so these are legitimate reasons.

Smith also deserves consideration. The complaint, though, should be that Joe Johnson made it. Not that these other two guys made it.