Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league?

Stunnaboy2K11 · Post #21 » by **Stunnaboy2K11** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:19 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
bballcool34 wrote:
MannyRam99 wrote:05-09.

09?

When Lebron had perhaps his greatest season ever?

No.

But yeah, I would say Kobe was the best in 06, with a case in 07, and a smaller one in 08.

Kobe had a better run ... and won.

So in that case, Wade was the best player in 06?

Rebuilding Year · Post #22 » by **Rebuilding Year** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:19 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
bballcool34 wrote:
MannyRam99 wrote:05-09.

09?

When Lebron had perhaps his greatest season ever?

No.

But yeah, I would say Kobe was the best in 06, with a case in 07, and a smaller one in 08.

Kobe had a better run ... and won.

So what do you have to say about 2006?

Lightning25 · Post #23 » by **Lightning25** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:21 pm

Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
So in that case, Wade was the best player in 06?

It's not the same because Kobe's regular season in 2009 was much better than Wade's regular season in 2006. Plus, the Heat had a below .500 record when Shaq was out (10-13) which goes to show you that Wade may not have even the MVP on his team that season.

Josephpaul · Post #24 » by **Josephpaul** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:23 pm

09?

When Lebron had perhaps his greatest season ever?

No.

But yeah, I would say Kobe was the best in 06, with a case in 07, and a smaller one in 08.[/quote]
Kobe had a better run ... and won.[/quote]
So what do you have to say about 2006?[/quote]
Luke Walton

Nitro1118 · Post #25 » by **Nitro1118** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:23 pm

05-08 he was the best player in the league IMO, with 06-07 being his best season. That season he had 10 games scoring over 50pts which is insane...basically, every 8 games he dropped over 50. That was also his most efficient year scoring the ball, with a TS% of over .580. That's huge for Kobe, as for the last 8-9 years he's had IMO the most polished, versatile set of weapons scoring the basketball the league has ever seen. However, what has killed him at times in the past was his efficiency (due to shot selection), so back in 06-07 when he still had most of his athleticism in-tact and was done adding every type of move in the book to his arsenal, he started picking and choosing his spots better than the previous seasson when he averaged 35PPG. Therefor, he was as explosive and unstoppable scoring the ball as I have ever seen anyone post-Jordan (02-03 T-Mac and current Durant and LeBron aren't far behind, though). He had the talent, skills and moves to counter every single defense thrown at him, and he had that Jordan-like killer instinct to bury teams by himself with his scoring. Occasionally, he would shoot himself and his team out of games as a result, but in 06-07 him winning his team games by obliterating the other team was a far more common occurance.

Also, that season he really started learning how to become a better leader. He became a better and more voal teammate off the court, more of a teacher on the court (as opposed to simply chewing people out like he did in the past), and he started to trust his teammates. As a result, he got a LOT more out of that awful roster of role players than anyone could have predicted.

Like virtually every season, Kobe averaged over 5 rebounds and assists, and compared to his 05-06 campaign he did put in a considerably greater amount of effort into his defense on a nightly basis.

In 06-07 Wade missed a lot of games due to injury, LeBron's jumper was still iffy as was his defense, KG was starting to decline and couldn't get his team a playoff birth, Dirk's game wasn't as well-rounded as Kobe's and he was completely shutdown in the playoffs as the 8th seeded Warriors took down his Mavs, and Duncan started to decline and didn't need to play like a superstar every single night with the emergence of Manu and Parker. Therefor, that season Kobe was without a doubt the best player in the league IMO. 05-06 and 07-08 he was also the best player in the league, but those seasons you could make stronger cases for some of his individual competition.

MannyRam99 · Post #26 » by **MannyRam99** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:24 pm

Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
So in that case, Wade was the best player in 06?

Kobe and LeBron's 09 seasons are more comparable because both also had favored teams, best in each conference to be exact.

Kobe was unanimously the best player in 06' but played with scrubs.

World Peace · Post #27 » by **World Peace** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:24 pm

2006-2010.

parapooper · Post #28 » by **parapooper** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:26 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
bballcool34 wrote:
09?

When Lebron had perhaps his greatest season ever?

No.

But yeah, I would say Kobe was the best in 06, with a case in 07, and a smaller one in 08.

Kobe had a better run ... and won.

How is that consistent with your 05-09 nonsense post?

Everybody had a better run and Duncan won in 05
Wade had a better run and won in 06
Duncan had a better run and won in 07
Garnett had a better run and won in 08

And LeBron had one of the best regular seasons and postseasons of all time in 09 and individually played the same team better in the playoffs. Can Kobe say that about any year 05-08?

Stunnaboy2K11 · Post #29 » by **Stunnaboy2K11** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:26 pm

Lightning25 wrote:
Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
So in that case, Wade was the best player in 06?

It's not the same because Kobe's regular season in 2009 was much better than Wade's regular season in 2006. Plus, the Heat had a below .500 record when Shaq was out (10-13) which goes to show you that Wade may not have even the MVP on his team that season.

What?

Wade in 06: 27/5.7/6.7 on 49.5% shooting

Kobe in 09: 26.8/5.2/4.9 on 47% shooting

Josephpaul · Post #30 » by **Josephpaul** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:27 pm

Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
Lightning25 wrote:
Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
So in that case, Wade was the best player in 06?

It's not the same because Kobe's regular season in 2009 was much better than Wade's regular season in 2006. Plus, the Heat had a below .500 record when Shaq was out (10-13) which goes to show you that Wade may not have even the MVP on his team that season.

What?

Wade in 06: 27/5.7/6.7 on 49.5% shooting

Kobe in 09: 26.8/5.2/4.9 on 47% shooting

Inflated stats as wade missed games

Stunnaboy2K11 · Post #31 » by **Stunnaboy2K11** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:27 pm

Anyhow I'd say Kobe was the best from 2006-2008 then LeBron took over from there

MannyRam99 · Post #32 » by **MannyRam99** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:29 pm

parapooper wrote:
MannyRam99 wrote:
bballcool34 wrote:
09?

When Lebron had perhaps his greatest season ever?

No.

But yeah, I would say Kobe was the best in 06, with a case in 07, and a smaller one in 08.

Kobe had a better run ... and won.

How is that consistent with your 05-09 nonsense post?

Everybody had a better run and Duncan won in 05
Wade had a better run and won in 06
Duncan had a better run and won in 07
Garnett had a better run and won in 08

And LeBron had one of the best regular seasons and postseasons of all time in 09 and individually played the same team better in the playoffs. Can Kobe say that about any year 05-08?

I explained above.

Kobe is unanimously better than everyone from 05-06 to 07-08, regardless of post season success.

after that it becomes debatable since Kobe is now on a decline, but he had a better run than LeBron in 09' which is why I give him the nod that year as well. Clear ?

Stunnaboy2K11 · Post #33 » by **Stunnaboy2K11** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:29 pm

Josephpaul wrote:
Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
Lightning25 wrote:It's not the same because Kobe's regular season in 2009 was much better than Wade's regular season in 2006. Plus, the Heat had a below .500 record when Shaq was out (10-13) which goes to show you that Wade may not have even the MVP on his team that season.

What?

Wade in 06: 27/5.7/6.7 on 49.5% shooting

Kobe in 09: 26.8/5.2/4.9 on 47% shooting

Inflated stats as wade missed games

So we can cancel '10 and '07 for Kobe since he missed a bunch of games as well? :roll:

mademan · Post #34 » by **mademan** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:31 pm

Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:So we can cancel '10 and '07 for Kobe since he missed a bunch of games as well?

You should know by now, there's always a reason Kobe comes out ahead. Even if that reason is contradictory.

Stunnaboy2K11 · Post #35 » by **Stunnaboy2K11** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:31 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:I explained above.

Kobe is unanimously better than everyone from 05-06 to 07-08, regardless of post season success.

after that it becomes debatable since Kobe is now on a decline, but he had a better run than LeBron in 09' which is why I give him the nod that year as well. Clear ?

If Kobe was unanimously considered the best from 06-06, then LeBron was unanimously considered better than Kobe from 09 onwards

bballcool34 · Post #36 » by **bballcool34** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:32 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
bballcool34 wrote:
MannyRam99 wrote:05-09.

09?

When Lebron had perhaps his greatest season ever?

No.

But yeah, I would say Kobe was the best in 06, with a case in 07, and a smaller one in 08.

Kobe had a better run ... and won.

He had a better run because he had a better team.

Lebron was amazing all season, a beast in the playoffs.

People say Lebron just had his best season and a from team perspective, yeah, he did, but if you go back and watch the Lebron of 09, he was unstoppable. Could literally score at will and drive whenever he wanted. A defensive beast like Dwight Howard almost always kills the ability for a player to drive and attack the hoop, and yet, Lebron in that series played as if Dwight wasn't even there. Lebron that season was probably the greatest individual in terms of ability I've probably seen since Jordan played.

And yeah, he lost because the Cavs, as always, were a 1 trick pony, and so people forget how insanely good Lebron was that season---athletically he was out of this world at that point. Put that Lebron on the Heat now and they're an all time great team.

Kobe had a great run as well and had a better team, so yeah he won. But best player on best team isn't a qualification for the best player in the league.

Brooklyn_34 · Post #37 » by **Brooklyn_34** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:32 pm

@Rebuilding Year (post #2)
I agree with the first part of your post (2006-2008)....

However, the MVPs were given to the right people (IMO).

2006, Nash was the clear cut guy. I disputed the 2005 MVP which I felt should have gone to Shaq, but the 2006 award was Nash's. As much as I NEVER HAVE BEEN A NASH FAN, he deserved it. Bryant did some great things that year, but the team was not that great. That's not his fault, but Nash did great things also and his team was more successful because of it.

No way Dirk didn't get that MVP in 2007. As the LONE HOF with only one other all star on a 67 win team , him NOT getting it would have been a travesty (Josh Howard, coincidentally made his first and only all star team that same year).

If you look at teams that won that many games, there were AT LEAST THREE HOFamers on the roster.
That was one of the EASIER choices for an MVP, if I have ever seen one.

Yes, Paul had a case in 2008...but so did Bryant. He didn't have Gasol the whole season either. Paul arguably (again before the Gasol deal) had a better roster than Kobe--not to mention Kobe's all around brilliance. Paul would have been a good choice, but Bryant deserved it.

MannyRam99 · Post #38 » by **MannyRam99** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
MannyRam99 wrote:I explained above.

Kobe is unanimously better than everyone from 05-06 to 07-08, regardless of post season success.

after that it becomes debatable since Kobe is now on a decline, but he had a better run than LeBron in 09' which is why I give him the nod that year as well. Clear ?

If Kobe was unanimously considered the best from 06-06, then LeBron was unanimously considered better than Kobe from 09 onwards

I wouldn't argue with you if you were to say that.

but I am not going to agree either.

parapooper · Post #39 » by **parapooper** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:34 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
So in that case, Wade was the best player in 06?

Kobe and LeBron's 09 seasons are more comparable because both also had favored teams, best in each conference to be exact.

Kobe was unanimously the best player in 06' but played with scrubs.

Unanimously the best player in a season when he was 3rd in PER, 4th in WS, 8th in WS/48, 6th in adjusted +/- and 4th in MVP voting and lost in the first round - hilarious.

MannyRam99 · Post #40 » by **MannyRam99** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:36 pm

parapooper wrote:
MannyRam99 wrote:
Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:
So in that case, Wade was the best player in 06?

Kobe and LeBron's 09 seasons are more comparable because both also had favored teams, best in each conference to be exact.

Kobe was unanimously the best player in 06' but played with scrubs.

Unanimously the best player in a season when he was 3rd in PER, 4th in WS, 8th in WS/48, 6th in adjusted +/- and 4th in MVP voting and lost in the first round - hilarious.

here we go..