Harden trade: Safe to call a failure now?

[Lord Eder]

None of the pieces they got replaced what Harden gave them to make them the contender that they were. They got a good haul, for sure, but they took a step back. Should've just paid him.

[22haytham22]

We'll have to see how Lamb and Shabazz turn out

Actually, nvm. It was a bad trade

Maybe your joking? Shabazz was not drafted by OKC....OKC drafted Steven Adams

[bbms]

If you consider it was an awful move to choose Ibaka over Harden, than yes, it was a failure. But Thunder traded a top 15 player in the league at worst, for sheer and raw potential.

I still believe Jeremy Lamb easily has potential to be a top 10 shooting guard in the league and probably would be a top 3 pick in this year's draft.

Steven Adams looks like he's going to be either Thabeet, or a more explosive-strong-athletic version of Asik with better shotblocking ability(have to learn to secure the defensive rebound, though). You can argue that his upside is still a reach at 12, even more knowing his bust potential, can't argue that he doesn't have top 10 C potential with all that quickness, explosiveness, sheer strenght and athleticism and toughness to be active on defense.

Thunder still has a lot of potential, but just the assets Thunder got with this trade are far from being sure things.

[BattleTested]

It was safe to call that trade a failure after the first week of the season. Honestly that might be the worst move I've witnessed in the time I've watched basketball.

[Apollo64]

It was terrible, but obviously not an usalvageable situation for OKC.

[Luigi]

Still doesn't change the fact that they traded a top 3 sg/15 player in his prime for #12 pick, Lamb, and K-Mart. Unless Lamb or the center they pick up with the 12 pick turns into a solid player, they basically gave away Harden..

I don't think Harden is a top 15 player. He's got a nice 3 pt / drive for free throws game, but he's missing a lot on both ends to be top 15.

I could be misremembering, but wasn't it a financial choice between Harden and Westbrook?

Between Ibaka and Harden. LOL i was being generous saying top 15.. Some think he's top 10. But either way, a 23 year old franchise player for right now seem to be peanut..

Right. Now I remember. Choosing Ibaka was a mistake in retrospect. I can see what OKC was doing. I mean, you have RW and KD on the perimeter, keeping interior defense makes sense for the team composition instead of putting it all on the offensive perimeter. But Ibaka hasn't become more than a shot blocker.

[Trader_Joe]

I don't think there is any waiting.

I don't see Martin getting them anything in sign and trade since they want to stay under the tax, otherwise they would sign him themselves. Teams under the cap won't offer a TE since they can sign him outright.

Also, they don't have an unlimited window for contention. I think they could have made it back to the Finals this year with Harden, even with the RW injury, but did not.

Their final offer was about $5m less than what Harden got which translates to only $1.5m or so per year. Yes, it was pushing the salary limits, but a. you have to pay to win and b. he still would have been trade-able this coming year before his extension kicked in.

Plus.. I think I did the numbers and they did not have to be a tax team. Their bench would have been mostly minimum guys and they would have had to amnesty Perkins, but it was doable.

[Joao Saraiva]

Yes it is a failure.

OKC were not patient and ended up trading Harden who can be a top player in the league for many years. Either you get another top player or the trade is a failure.

I don't think any of those guys can be a top 5 player in the league. About Harden, I don't know. At least top 7 he can be. So it was a big failure.

[Neutral 123]

It was terrible, but obviously not an usalvageable situation for OKC.

Sadly, I don't see them saving it. Durant and Westbrook will probably leave too now. what a shame, and it seems it had more to do with management arrogance than anything else.

[Superhuman]

I wonder what fallacy has to say about this thread.

Yes it was a bad trade. Will Lamb and Adams pan out? It's possible. Will it ease the pain of losing harden? Most likely not.

[jym85]

a bad trade from the start and it's only gotten worse

and all because they didn't want pay him an extra 5 mil over 4 or 5 years
basically nothing

[jamesnamida]

I still think people are overrating harden, without his freethrows his ts is terrible.
He shot like .438%fg and .363 from 3s which is below average for guards at the 3 pointer
Monta Ellis at his worst chuckage mode with the warriors that year he was surrounded by 3 starting dleaguers was a .450 fg % his ts was lower bc he is a bad 3 point shooter, and didn't get to the line as much.
Of course harden has a way better team, so they sneak into the playoffs, and he is legit.
I'd wait a year or two and if the rockets can't get any free agents, people will sour on harden, like many others that come before.

He's better than Ellis of course, but I know that this first year was the honeymoon.
Unless they get Dwight.

[LikeABosh]

We'll have to see how Lamb and Shabazz turn out

Actually, nvm. It was a bad trade

Maybe your joking? Shabazz was not drafted by OKC....OKC drafted Steven Adams

Joking. OKC should have drafted Shabazz and if they did, Lamb/Shabazz might not have sounded that bad at the time of the trade. Of course Harden really exploded last season so the trade will always look bad for OKC

[ClayDavis]

I still think people are overrating harden, without his freethrows his ts is terrible.
He shot like .438%fg and .363 from 3s which is below average for guards at the 3 pointer
Monta Ellis at his worst chuckage mode with the warriors that year he was surrounded by 3 starting dleaguers was a .450 fg % his ts was lower bc he is a bad 3 point shooter, and didn't get to the line as much.
Of course harden has a way better team, so they sneak into the playoffs, and he is legit.
I'd wait a year or two and if the rockets can't get any free agents, people will sour on harden, like many others that come before.

He's better than Ellis of course, but I know that this first year was the honeymoon.
Unless they get Dwight.

thats true, his game is built on flopping but he gets calls. they havent stopped.
in the playoffs is where he is in trouble. this years playoffs showed refs stop with that crap.

[zronv7]

only way to reverse the bad deal now is if Adams becomes HOF center and thunder win several rings.

[Effigy]

Now that it looks like Kevin Martin isn't being renewed, the pick from the Raptors ended up being #12, and Lamb having lowered expectations, do you consider it a failure?

Why wouldn't Martin be renewed? I can't see him getting a big deal elsewhere. But regardless, yes this trade was horrendous for OKC.

Without this trade, I think they would have won a title. Maybe even this year.

Now I really don't think they will ever win one with this group.

[TruSkool]

OKC seems like a team that doesnt like to pay its players. theyre trying to win championships on rookie contracts, and once the contract expires, they want more good rookies. Although they are a well run franchise, ultimately chemistry matters

[bwgood77]

I wouldn't say it was a good trade, but for all we know OKC wins the finals this year if Westbrook doesn't get injured.

Lamb and Adams could also be studs in two years on rookie contracts.

The fact is, with the new CBA, if you are going to have three max guys, you are going to have to go into the tax and will only be able to surround them with minimum type players, and you can probably only afford the tax if you are in a big market.

[Smash3]

The question is when was it not?

[hayden]

I still think people are overrating harden, without his freethrows his ts is terrible.
He shot like .438%fg and .363 from 3s which is below average for guards at the 3 pointer
Monta Ellis at his worst chuckage mode with the warriors that year he was surrounded by 3 starting dleaguers was a .450 fg % his ts was lower bc he is a bad 3 point shooter, and didn't get to the line as much.
Of course harden has a way better team, so they sneak into the playoffs, and he is legit.
I'd wait a year or two and if the rockets can't get any free agents, people will sour on harden, like many others that come before.

He's better than Ellis of course, but I know that this first year was the honeymoon.
Unless they get Dwight.

someone in the other Rocket's thread just called them borderline D-leaguers. haha

i like how you mention ts% and disregard his ft shooting when ft% is a third of that stat. and you mention monta ellis who just finished a season shooting .416 on 17.5 attempts. i would say that is monta at his "worst chuckage mode."