OT - The decline of And1 and streetball culture

[JustOneFix]

In terms of quality, comparing Nike to And1 is like comparing Apple iphone to some chinese replica, or a Honda to i don't know, Daihatsu.

They are both made in basicaly a slavery enviroment but the the difference is the quaility of the material.

There's reason why they cost 15 bucks, to say it's all about marketing is ridicilous.

[SHUTUP Lebron]

Thats just my opinion.

Also And1 just didn't evolve with the times. When it was popular you had baggy jeans, oversized jerseys, super long shorts. Eventually the fashion trends went more towards the hipster look. The company just couldn't adapt to how culture was evolving.

Agree with this entirely. I don't think it's that basketball no longer = hip hop culture, I just think hip hop culture has changed. We went from big white tees to glasses with no lenses and skinny jeans.

Every ball player still thinks they're a rapper, every rapper wants to be a ball player. And1 is the hip hop version of the Harlem Globetrotters, but as said before, they produced a product that went out like a fad.

[Mujahydeen]

It was something new and flashy. I guess after some time player dribbling the hell out of the ball in front of a lazy defender just got boring.

[Record Machine]

It was something new and flashy. I guess after some time player dribbling the hell out of the ball in front of a lazy defender just got boring.

I think this had more to do with it than any underlying social changes. You've seen one And1 'game' you've seen them all.

[BackseatBoss]

I still rock my And 1 shoes and shorts when I play ball just because.

[NCHeels2008]

Personaly, i think Nike and Jordan are just too strong and have by far the best shoes.

And1 lacks quaility. As soon as people realized this, they stopped buying them.

LOL you must be joking. Whether it's Adidas, Nike, And1 or your typical Payless shoe, they all cost a couple dollars to make. A shoe is a shoe. The rest of it goes into marketing. The $100m contract Lebron and D Rose get is paid by you, the consumer.

i work in the shoe business this couldn't be further from the truth

[bigsby1]

And1's marketing was based on Hip Hop and streetball, tied together. In a way, they did go hand and hand considering both came from the "ghetto" neighborhoods. Hip Hop grew exponentially in the late 90s, early 2000s and the NBA entered an era of flashy basketball players like Iverson, Jason Williams, Vince Carter, Francis, ect. Hence why And1 blew up. Eventually NBA implemented the dress code and Hip Hop had lost some of its popularity edge due to other genres. Also, flashy players became the norm since the sport has become so athletic. Behind the back passes and monster dunks are expected instead of wished for.

Thats just my opinion.

So nba changing the dress code affects And1 how?

[theGreatRC]

In my opinion and from experience:

Back in 2001-2004 when I thought AND1 was cool was because my friends and I were all ballers and had that phase when we would all wear forces, baggy jeans and a jersey. And1 was "cool" because the mixes would have people doing crazy moves where people would be humiliated and it played some decent hip-hop music which fit the style we were looking for.

After awile though, the whole wannabe gangster phase wore out and so did AND1. Real basketball played the right way was more entertaining than seeing carries, travels and dunks on lower rims

[Record Machine]

LOL you must be joking. Whether it's Adidas, Nike, And1 or your typical Payless shoe, they all cost a couple dollars to make. A shoe is a shoe. The rest of it goes into marketing. The $100m contract Lebron and D Rose get is paid by you, the consumer.

i work in the shoe business this couldn't be further from the truth

+1

As someone who's had both ankles reconstructed you learn early in the rehab process there are certain shoes you should be wearing and certain shoes you shouldn't. Quality varies greatly from brand to brand. Orthopedic surgeons and physical therapists know this first hand.

[DWiz]

Yeah it fell off the map. I remember seeing stuff on tapes and then going to the park to try it on dudes.

Particularly the move where you put the ball in your shirt and spin-it out around the defender...looking back, it was all illegal as f**** and probably stunted a lot of players fundamental development.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

One big reason why the brand fell off was they sold out. Now you can find their gear at freaking Wal-marts! No offense to Wal-mart shoppers here but once a clothing brand goes there, it's popularity dies.

Was about to post that. I bought my son a pair of and 1 sneakers (truth is I was surprised they were there, I don't follow fashion but that I always thought you could only get their products at foot locket etc) and they were garbage and fell apart within a few weeks.

[Dominator83]

One big reason why the brand fell off was they sold out. Now you can find their gear at freaking Wal-marts! No offense to Wal-mart shoppers here but once a clothing brand goes there, it's popularity dies.

THIS. I remember when i was a kid in the early 90's, Starter brand used to be THE SH*T! If you had a team hat or a team jacket, it wasnt validated unless it was a starter. I saw Starter stuff at Wal-mart a couple years ago and until that point I didnt even know it still existed

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

I used to play on the And 1 Tour in 2003 and would get boxes of their shoes and clothes. Some shoes felt excellent performance wise and some shoes didn't. I think most shoe companies have those same issues. Every shoe designed by your company isn't going to be a hit.

I think for And 1 their tour got too costly and wasn't translating into direct sale increases. They probably should've stayed playing in small gyms instead of renting out huge arenas.

There shoe designs fell off a little bit too. They had the Tai Chi that Vince Carter wore in the 2000 dunk contest and the Tai Chi 2 that came out around 2003. Those were both very good basketball shoes and people loved them. But I think they weren't listening to the guys they paid to endorse their shoes when it came designing their shoes. That was the why KG left And1.

When credible NBA guys started walking away from And1, it was just a matter of time before the masses would walk away along with them.

[DivineFury]

I got bored after about 20 seconds. Probably has something to do with that.

[The Penguin]

Stern's agenda has always been to increase the global appeal of the NBA and basketball. The and1 culture came at the perfect time to create the craze as the Jordan/Bird/Magic era was done and players like Iverson were the most popular. Stern saw the negative connotations (ie violence/drugs) associated with the street and knew the implications it would have on the product both in white neighborhoods and abroad and distanced the league from the product. Players like Lebron & Durant help create this distance as they are hyper conscience of image and strive to increase their brand appeal. The hip hop is still in basketball/the nba, it's just players no longer want to be considered "street" as they know it lowers thier brand appeal. This killed the street ball craze. Who do you think Nike wants selling their shoes?

[Ichimoku]

The same situation is in Poland. In 2002/2003 there was a peak of AND1 popularity. Everyone want next volume of And 1 mix tape and on the basketball courtmost of the players were wearing AND1 shoes. But this has been dissapearing since a few years and at the moment I feel it declined significantly.

[tidho]

Yeah it fell off the map. I remember seeing stuff on tapes and then going to the park to try it on dudes.

Particularly the move where you put the ball in your shirt and spin-it out around the defender...looking back, it was all illegal as f**** and probably stunted a lot of players fundamental development.

That's what I remember about it. It was entertaining stuff but seemed like Globe Trotter style entertainment, not actual basketball.

I think the real end came with the realization that these guys couldn't play. Like the hip hop culture the whole scene was smoke and mirrors based off playground legends. A few decades bakc Kareem and Dr. J were playing in the parks against guys good enough to be in the league. And1 was capitalizing on the idea that these undiscovered greats were out there. Today, the guys that really can play make it.

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

That's what I remember about it. It was entertaining stuff but seemed like Globe Trotter style entertainment, not actual basketball.

I think the real end came with the realization that these guys couldn't play. Like the hip hop culture the whole scene was smoke and mirrors based off playground legends. A few decades bakc Kareem and Dr. J were playing in the parks against guys good enough to be in the league. And1 was capitalizing on the idea that these undiscovered greats were out there. Today, the guys that really can play make it.

I can guarantee you they can play. The only thing that's not really basketball is the carrying and tricks. But outside of that, most of those guys can kill more than 90% of the people in the world that play basketball.

[kakaman]

Personaly, i think Nike and Jordan are just too strong and have by far the best shoes.

And1 lacks quaility. As soon as people realized this, they stopped buying them.

LOL you must be joking. Whether it's Adidas, Nike, And1 or your typical Payless shoe, they all cost a couple dollars to make. A shoe is a shoe. The rest of it goes into marketing. The $100m contract Lebron and D Rose get is paid by you, the consumer.

i work in the shoe business this couldn't be further from the truth

Can you give us a glimpse of the shoe business? Nike's may cost a bit more in terms of materials and labor (ie carbon fiber bottom), but for the most part things like flywire and lunarlon are not anything special and fairly cheap to produce.

[HINrichPolice]

That's what I remember about it. It was entertaining stuff but seemed like Globe Trotter style entertainment, not actual basketball.

I think the real end came with the realization that these guys couldn't play. Like the hip hop culture the whole scene was smoke and mirrors based off playground legends. A few decades bakc Kareem and Dr. J were playing in the parks against guys good enough to be in the league. And1 was capitalizing on the idea that these undiscovered greats were out there. Today, the guys that really can play make it.

I can guarantee you they can play. The only thing that's not really basketball is the carrying and tricks. But outside of that, most of those guys can kill more than 90% of the people in the world that play basketball.

I think the appeal for And1 died for me when you started having so many guys coming out of the woodwork and becoming legends. The original "cast" of And1 streetball legends had a certain aura about them. When there was a transition to sort of the next gen of streetball legends, they needed to be hyped up more so as to be worthy replacements.

Plus, you never got to see them play in an organized, legit league against legit players. I bet if some of the And1 guys got invited to say the NBA Summer League and dominated, it would have added a lot more legitimacy or at least provide more reason to respect them even more.

I remember they used to televise those Rucker League games on NBATV. That was pretty fun. But a lot of the And1 guys didn't participate. That would have been awesome.