Can the myth that Carmelo Anthony is a ball stopper end?

Post #21 » by **mopper8** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 4:30 am

If you have touches and minutes with possession, wouldn't the relevant stat be seconds per touch? Like, a guy who averages 7 seconds per touch is more likely to be a ball stopper than a guy who averages 3 seconds per touch, right?

Regardless, 2 games is hardly anything to go by.

raptorsfan24 · Post #22 » by **raptorsfan24** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 4:31 am

DoubleLintendre wrote:Yes, Melo is no ball stopper. In fact I consider him a "ball facilitator", because every time he lets the ball go for a shot, somebody else might be able to get their turn with the ball off the rebound.

It really opens up ball movement and is conductive in adding to team rebounding while establishing important player roles on the Knicks. Not many players "move the ball" like Melo so consistently. You know that either he'll sink his shot or somebody else on the team will have opportunities to grab the rebound and either score for themselves or pass it to Melo again.

You can't help your team if you don't take care of your own shot first. Melo always looks to get himself involved first and thereby establishes the shooting hierarchy. He's actually alot like America. When the 1 percent is taking care of itself, money and new opportunities trickle down to the rest of the population. It's a slow but sure process where when a small group (or person) does well-- everyone else will eventually too.

Imagine a game where everyone gets the same percentage of touches. Now what kind of government would that be? Sounds a little like communism.

You just have to understand the process. Melo gets the ball from his hands and into the basket, with the misses going straight to the people. His teammates.

In this regard Melo is a true ball facilitator and is, unintentionally.. a true American.

Myth, no more.

Post #23 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 5:08 am

I realize this is basically a joke thread, but i'm going to post this anyway. If you watched the knicks play last season, iso melo was at an all time low. Our 3 PG rotation of Felton, Kidd, and Prigioni (with 2 on the court for much of the game) kept the ball moving, and melo played within the flow of the offense. He happens to be an incredible spot up shooter with range out to the 3 (the guy steps into 3s as well as anyone in the league). I expect that to continue into this season after adding udirh.

That's why he shot a career high from 3, had his best TS% since 07-08, highest scoring avg since 06-07, and finished 3rd in MVP voting. Contrast that with the season before where he had a near retired bibby and baron in the playoffs, and you can see why he struggled so much.

(And yes, he did have a bad game last night, but sample size is key here, and we're still playing short handed.)

Sofia · Post #24 » by **Sofia** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 5:13 am

You guys are just haters, Melo is one of the to players in the league at the 'Kobe Assist'

Mamba Venom · Post #25 » by **Mamba Venom** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 5:31 am

The first thing that entered my mind when I saw this thread title on the gen board was: On offense or defense?

Eyes dont lie

Rasho_libre · Post #26 » by **Rasho_libre** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 5:33 am

Let's stop giving this guy awards. The guy has done nothing in the nba but suck in the playoffs

koogiking · Post #27 » by **koogiking** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 6:37 am

Also, like I said before, I'm not saying that he doesn't take a lot of shots or that his shot selection is iffy at times. I'm just saying that he gets his off quickly and he doesn't hold the ball as much as people like to make him out to be

Teen Girl Squad · Post #28 » by **Teen Girl Squad** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 6:58 am

DoubleLintendre wrote:Yes, Melo is no ball stopper. In fact I consider him a "ball facilitator", because every time he lets the ball go for a shot, somebody else might be able to get their turn with the ball off the rebound.

It really opens up ball movement and is conductive in adding to team rebounding while establishing important player roles on the Knicks. Not many players "move the ball" like Melo so consistently. You know that either he'll sink his shot or somebody else on the team will have opportunities to grab the rebound and either score for themselves or pass it to Melo again.

You can't help your team if you don't take care of your own shot first. Melo always looks to get himself involved first and thereby establishes the shooting hierarchy. He's actually alot like America. When the 1 percent is taking care of itself, money and new opportunities trickle down to the rest of the population. It's a slow but sure process where when a small group (or person) does well-- everyone else will eventually too.

Imagine a game where everyone gets the same percentage of touches. Now what kind of government would that be? Sounds a little like communism.

You just have to understand the process. Melo gets the ball from his hands and into the basket, with the misses going straight to the people. His teammates.

In this regard Melo is a true ball facilitator and is, unintentionally.. a true American.

Myth, no more.

This is the reason Real(est)GM is the best sports board on the internet. Pure, fact-based, unbiased, hard-hitting analysis.

realgm1980 · Post #29 » by **realgm1980** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 11:36 am

did melo bring the ball upcourt?

Post #30 » by **coldfish** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 11:40 am

Against Chicago, Carmelo had a number of possessions in the second half where he got the ball and you knew as soon as he got it that the shot was going up. Deng was all over him. Regardless, Melo did his footwork stuff and invariably fired up a contested long range two. He didn't read the defense or look for someone else to pass it to. His mind was made up when he got the ball.

Yes, Carmelo is a ball stopper.

You could come out with a stat that said the sky is actually green, but no one is going to believe it because it completely conflicts with what their eyes see.

esiotrot · Post #31 » by **esiotrot** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 12:03 pm

Just because Carmelo doesn't hold the ball very long doesn't mean he isn't a ballstopper. If he's taking quick bad shots or turning it over, he's killing ball movement.

In fact, isn't it worse for your case that he touches the ball so little and still manages to hoist that many shots up?

Post #32 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 12:22 pm

I dunno that ball-stopping has ever been a big issue for Melo. Denver llayed highly fluid, up-tempo basketball with him and he proved to be a fantastic off-ball player ln Team USA and last year for the Knicks when the coaching staff and roster permitted it.

Yeah, he likes to iso, but he is a primary option volume scorer. Durant, Kobe, Bron, Wade, Harden, all of them do it.

Melo worked out alright alongside Iverson in the RS.

Melo ball-stopping is like KD not having a post game, or Dirk choking... Old narrative that hasn't caught up to reality.

J-Mezzy · Post #33 » by **J-Mezzy** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 12:27 pm

Most superstars are ball stoppers. They have to be. How are they going to do their ISO plays, post up plays, and create for others if they are not ball dominant. I have other issues with Melo, but ball stopping is not one of them.

J-Mezzy · Post #34 » by **J-Mezzy** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 12:34 pm

DoubleLintendre wrote:Yes, Melo is no ball stopper. In fact I consider him a "ball facilitator", because every time he lets the ball go for a shot, somebody else might be able to get their turn with the ball off the rebound.

It really opens up ball movement and is conductive in adding to team rebounding while establishing important player roles on the Knicks. Not many players "move the ball" like Melo so consistently. You know that either he'll sink his shot or somebody else on the team will have opportunities to grab the rebound and either score for themselves or pass it to Melo again.

You can't help your team if you don't take care of your own shot first. Melo always looks to get himself involved first and thereby establishes the shooting hierarchy. He's actually alot like America. When the 1 percent is taking care of itself, money and new opportunities trickle down to the rest of the population. It's a slow but sure process where when a small group (or person) does well-- everyone else will eventually too.

Imagine a game where everyone gets the same percentage of touches. Now what kind of government would that be? Sounds a little like communism.

You just have to understand the process. Melo gets the ball from his hands and into the basket, with the misses going straight to the people. His teammates.

In this regard Melo is a true ball facilitator and is, unintentionally.. a true American.

Myth, no more.

Lol this is not true. The 1% has to be willing to create for the others after "taking care" of themselves. This is true in both economics and basketball. If your theory was true and players would benefit from one guy being a ball hog, guys like Ricky Davis would have been considered superstars. Your theory sounds a lot like the "Kobe assist".

Yes, there has to be a hierarchy established and the best player should get the most shots, but that player also has to be unselfish and willing to make the right play for the team to succeed.

NothingButLuck · Post #35 » by **NothingButLuck** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 12:35 pm

DoubleLintendre wrote:Yes, Melo is no ball stopper. In fact I consider him a "ball facilitator", because every time he lets the ball go for a shot, somebody else might be able to get their turn with the ball off the rebound.

It really opens up ball movement and is conductive in adding to team rebounding while establishing important player roles on the Knicks. Not many players "move the ball" like Melo so consistently. You know that either he'll sink his shot or somebody else on the team will have opportunities to grab the rebound and either score for themselves or pass it to Melo again.

You can't help your team if you don't take care of your own shot first. Melo always looks to get himself involved first and thereby establishes the shooting hierarchy. He's actually alot like America. When the 1 percent is taking care of itself, money and new opportunities trickle down to the rest of the population. It's a slow but sure process where when a small group (or person) does well-- everyone else will eventually too.

Imagine a game where everyone gets the same percentage of touches. Now what kind of government would that be? Sounds a little like communism.

You just have to understand the process. Melo gets the ball from his hands and into the basket, with the misses going straight to the people. His teammates.

In this regard Melo is a true ball facilitator and is, unintentionally.. a true American.

Myth, no more.

Sounds like this is made for ESPN's 30 for 30.

What if I told you he wasn't a ball stopper... that he is a champion of capitalism, a true American hero...

Bravo, man. :lol:

DrazenForThree · Post #36 » by **DrazenForThree** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 12:42 pm

koogiking wrote:Also, like I said before, I'm not saying that he doesn't take a lot of shots or that his shot selection is iffy at times. I'm just saying that he gets his off quickly and he doesn't hold the ball as much as people like to make him out to be

Holding the ball long isnt what makes you a ball stopper.

what makes someone a ball stopper is once they get the ball, it stops there and no one else ever touches it again.

getting the ball and shooting it quick or getting the ball dribbling for 10 seconds and then shooting it are the same thing. your ball stopping in both instances... your stopping the ball from moving around to your teammates

Post #37 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 12:57 pm

Taking a quick shot isn't an inherently negative thing. New York's offense is geared towards catch-and-shoot action. The speed of that play is the point. That's not a bad thing at all, it's half of the value of off-ball action. He isn't a penetrate-and-pitch volume playmaker running out of high screens like Wade or Lebron, or PGs.

koogiking · Post #38 » by **koogiking** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 12:59 pm

DrazenForThree wrote:
koogiking wrote:Also, like I said before, I'm not saying that he doesn't take a lot of shots or that his shot selection is iffy at times. I'm just saying that he gets his off quickly and he doesn't hold the ball as much as people like to make him out to be

Holding the ball long isnt what makes you a ball stopper.

what makes someone a ball stopper is once they get the ball, it stops there and no one else ever touches it again.

getting the ball and shooting it quick or getting the ball dribbling for 10 seconds and then shooting it are the same thing. your ball stopping in both instances... your stopping the ball from moving around to your teammates

A ball stopper is someone who kills ball movement and tempo by holding onto the ball too long and wasting time on the shot clock. Like how Andrien Dantly is accused of doing.

Being a ball stopper is different from being someone that has bad shot selection or being someone that shoots a lot. I'm not claiming that Melo isn't shot happy. I'm just saying that he isn't a ball stopper. I think this is what people are not understanding when I read my post

DrazenForThree · Post #39 » by **DrazenForThree** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 1:01 pm

koogiking wrote:A ball stopper is someone who kills ball movement and tempo by holding onto the ball too long and wasting time on the shot clock.

how is getting the ball and taking a quick shot NOT killing ball movement and tempo?

koogiking · Post #40 » by **koogiking** » Sat Nov 2, 2013 1:08 pm

DrazenForThree wrote:
koogiking wrote:A ball stopper is someone who kills ball movement and tempo by holding onto the ball too long and wasting time on the shot clock.

how is getting the ball and taking a quick shot NOT killing ball movement and tempo?

It's important to take open shots before the defense sets. When Kevin Durant gets a a good catch and shoot opportunity, its important to take that shot while hes open so that the defense doesn't recover and set.

What would kill ball movement is if he catches the ball, makes a few dribble moves and fakes that drain the clock out, then shoot.

what makes KD so great is that he gets his shots off quick and in the flow of the offense vs the latter which would kill the teams offensive flow. He's never been a great passer, but despite that he's great for his team despite the fact that he takes a a lot of shots and fires them off quickly.