Techicals for Flopping getting a trial in D League

[lakerhater]

You do have eyes right?
You did watch the video I posted, right?

What is the first foul you see ?
You don't see Harden moving tword TA and TA actually moving backward from him ?
Do you see Harden put him left hand into TAs chest, plant his foot and push him into Howard ?

That's the first foul and the first foul is the foul that should be called.

As for TA having his hands on him, players have their hands touching each other all the time. Thats not a foul. A foul is pushing them or holding them. Not touching them. Not unless its their arms when they are shooting.

+1

If you don't see Harden initiating the contact then you need to make an appointment with an eye doctor.

If initiating contact is your only argument against the foul call, then you must not watch Harden (any many other players) play very much.

If anything, locking arms is a common no-call, but running a player to the floor is something that will force the refs to make a call. Harden sold it well, but it's not unlike when Nash or other PGs who are running with the ball and put on the breaks and forces a trailing defender to run them over (it's sly, but it's still a foul).

It wasn't a locking arms issue. It was a push the defender into a screener issue. Harden is the one responsible for all the contact on that play all the way through from beginning to end and there's no question it was his foul. I've watched plenty of Harden and he gets away with cheating all the time. Just because refs aren't blowing their whistles on such plays doesn't make them any less of a foul.

It's similar to how NFL WR's often get away with murder with push-offs on DBs to gain just enough space to make the catch. Here Harden is trying to push-off just enough to get the defender going the wrong direction as well as getting caught up in a screen in order for Harden to receive a pass.

If anything it just goes to show that officials in both leagues watch the defenders much closer then the offensive players which creates a lot of missed offensive fouls.

[ILOVEIT]

I think it should be a techincal foul. It's essentially an attempt at cheating...and to stop that time of behavior it take more than silly little fines.

[colts18]

I hope Harden's body is ok today

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... n-is-okay/

[supaflash]

The funny thing is it's Dwight with the awesomely illegal moving screen AFTER Ariza is pushed into his screen to begin with that creates all the contact and flopping. Then the second illegal screen on Wall... Dwight looking rather KG ish out there!

[hands11]

Despite Harden holding, still looks like a foul to me. Ariza's momentum just pushes Harden enough for him to lose his balance (cover the top portion of the clip and just watch Harden's legs & feet)

Do what ?

How about this. Look at the entire clip and watch Harden move into TA put his hand in his chest and push him into Howard. Then watch it again and watch TAs feet and body get moved backward in a burst that is synchronized to Harden pushing him. Not convinced yet. Watch again and what to see how all this lines up with Harden actually planting his left foot to push TA backward.

Forget about what you are calling the holding. All of that happens after Harden walk up and pushes Trevor into Howard. Its a pushing foul. That is the first thing that happens. Now what follows is more Harden fouling and a flop but none of that even matters. The first foul is OBVIOUS and should have been called.

Offensive foul, Harden. Wizards up 2 with possession. TA still in the game. Not sure if they were over the limit or not but if they were, TA would be at the line shooting 2 FTs. If not, we run a few seconds off the clock and go to the line for 2 FTs.

[Joseph17]

It was a flop, but Ariza was holding him the entire time. I don't blame him for flopping in that situation.

[Ruzious]

So the foul wasn't Ariza having two hands on Harden?

So you didn't watch the replay. Harden orchestrated the whole thing. And it shouldn't be any surprise - he's a master at getting away with stuff like that. It's too bad - he's a great player without doing that ****.

[Ruzious]

It was a flop, but Ariza was holding him the entire time. I don't blame him for flopping in that situation.

Watch it from the beginning. Ariza was reacting. Harden initiated and controlled the entire sequence. And think it through - Ariza is one of the top wing defenders in the NBA. Why would he intentionally grab Harden and hold on to him if he wasn't physically manipulated into doing it?

[hands11]

You do have eyes right?
You did watch the video I posted, right?

What is the first foul you see ?
You don't see Harden moving tword TA and TA actually moving backward from him ?
Do you see Harden put him left hand into TAs chest, plant his foot and push him into Howard ?

That's the first foul and the first foul is the foul that should be called.

As for TA having his hands on him, players have their hands touching each other all the time. Thats not a foul. A foul is pushing them or holding them. Not touching them. Not unless its their arms when they are shooting.

+1

If you don't see Harden initiating the contact then you need to make an appointment with an eye doctor.

If initiating contact is your only argument against the foul call, then you must not watch Harden (and many other offensive players) play very much.

If anything, locking arms is a common no-call, but running a player to the floor is something that will force the refs to make a call. Harden sold it well, but it's not unlike when Nash or other PGs running with the ball, who put on the breaks causing the trailing defender to run them over (it's sly, but it's still a foul).

Good eyes, but your missing parts of what happened.

Lets ignore that Harden first fouls Trevor by walking up to him and pushing him into Howard.
You say offensive players do this. No, they don't. This is a foul. What they do is the walk up and get close and then move away to open space or tword a pick. The push is an offensive foul. Now sometimes they play patty cake slapping each other hands but a PUSH is a PUSH. Its a foul.

Lets focus on what you saw here. You are right. Harden did do that sudden stop thing that PGs do and it was very "sly" if that what you want to call it.

So at this point, Harden is now rubbing off the pick and TA is trailing, and you are right. Harden stops. He not only stops but he chest pumps Trevor A who has momentum moving into him. But go back and watch Trevor. He is actually heading behind Harden after the Harden stop. If not for Harden hooking his arm, Trevor would have went behind him, but Harden hooks him and pulls Trevor into and over him.

Now look again. Watch Harden's right leg as he is going down. He extends it. OMG. I watched this 50 times and I just saw that part. He actually trips Trevor after he hooked and pulled him. Its amazing Trevor stayed on his feed after all that.

And just for good measure, Harder throws in a flop head fake on the way down.

What a Douche.

So the entire play from Harden does like this.

Walk up put left hand in chest, plant left foot and push into Howard.
Run left off pick. Stop running left to open space and chest pump Trevor as his momentum moves into you.
Hook Trevor's left arm and pull so he can't clear behind you.
Flop head.
Extend right leg and trip him on the way down.



WoW. Now that is NBA talent. He should be a stunt man instead.

[hands11]

The funny thing is it's Dwight with the awesomely illegal moving screen AFTER Ariza is pushed into his screen to begin with that creates all the contact and flopping. Then the second illegal screen on Wall... Dwight looking rather KG ish out there!

After all the things Harden did, I wasn't even focused on Howard.

Howard did much worst on the next play in regard to moving screens.

He goes moving into Wall, NEVER STOPS MOVING HIS FEET EVEN FOR A MILLI SEC.
Puts him arms out into Wall.
Then he holds him.
Then he pivots and rides him out like an offensive lineman zone blocking.

The combination of these two plays back to back is just insulting the sport of basketball.

If either of these is called correctly, there is a amazingly high percentage change that Houston loses that game. The Wizards were up 2 going into all this mess.

And instead of getting any of it correct, they came out with the worst outcomes they could. Foul with the ball was still being inbound. 1 FTA and Houston ball on the side line. AMAZING.

[Vader]

Ariza put his hand on Harden first.

[mhd]

Ariza put his hand on Harden first.

And yet, the same refs didn't call Howard for HOLDING Wall on the moving screen?


We all know Harden flops like a tool. The 90s stars (except Reggie Miller) NEVER flopped like this. You ever see Pippen, Drexler, MJ, Rice, Mitch, etc. flop like a little tool like Harden?

[knickerbocker2k2]

I hate Hardens flops, but I put this on Ariza. In that situation you don't put your hands on players. In close up we can see that it probably was 50/50 call and Harden is the one who caused his fall when he tried to pull/push Ariza hands off him. However refs don't have the benefit of the slow motion GIFs and thus as a defender not only can't you foul, but you can't give the appearance of a foul as well. Putting your hands on Harden is asking for trouble.

BTW I hope refs stop giving the benefit of the doubt to Harden. This guy is the ultimate flopper in the league. If it is not a clear foul, don't reward him. I bet he stops looking for fouls and stays on his feet. Most players would have tried harder to stay on their feet instead of falling on the ground looking for the call.

[lakerhater]

Ariza put his hand on Harden first.

Incorrect. Ariza is a legally established defender on this play and Harden moves into TA's legally established territory. Harden then initiates contact and is responsible for the preceding action which constitutes an offensive foul.

[hayden]

Meh, I'm a Rocket's fan, so I'm biased. I'd be pissed for sure if this happened against my team, but again, this seems just like a 50/50 call that went in favor of the Rockets that put Harden at the line to give him the opportunity to score an extra point.

[xsatyr]

Harden initiated the contact but that is very common for players to do before they run around a screen. Ariza held onto Harden too long once he got past the screen which is a big mistake. Harden locked up Ariza's arm and sold the foul. Ariza should know better.

[Case2012]

The flopping rule is a joke. Harden flops more than anyone and he hasn't EVEN BEEN FINED YET?! The NBA doesn't care,if they did they would suspend players and give them a hefty fine. Something in the 25K range would work, especially on top of their salary for the game. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

F*** Harden and F*** the NBA.

[Joseph17]

It was a flop, but Ariza was holding him the entire time. I don't blame him for flopping in that situation.

Watch it from the beginning. Ariza was reacting. Harden initiated and controlled the entire sequence. And think it through - Ariza is one of the top wing defenders in the NBA. Why would he intentionally grab Harden and hold on to him if he wasn't physically manipulated into doing it?

To prevent the best sg in the NBA from getting the ball. Harden did push Ariza in the chest, but that was no reason for him to keep his arms around him during the entire play. He was grabbing Harden's arm with one hand and he had his other hand around Harden's back. There's no excuse for that.

[hands11]

I hate Hardens flops, but I put this on Ariza. In that situation you don't put your hands on players. In close up we can see that it probably was 50/50 call and Harden is the one who caused his fall when he tried to pull/push Ariza hands off him. However refs don't have the benefit of the slow motion GIFs and thus as a defender not only can't you foul, but you can't give the appearance of a foul as well. Putting your hands on Harden is asking for trouble.

BTW I hope refs stop giving the benefit of the doubt to Harden. This guy is the ultimate flopper in the league. If it is not a clear foul, don't reward him. I bet he stops looking for fouls and stays on his feet. Most players would have tried harder to stay on their feet instead of falling on the ground looking for the call.

Which is the title of the thread.

1) They have a clock the can run for 5 sec countdown on the inbound plays. Use them.
2) They have instant replay. Hell, they actually used it. They just can't use it to get this kind of call right.

Blocking these kind of calls does nothing good for the sport. It makes he refs look bad. It makes Harden look bad. It make the league look bad.

In answer to the second underline. You mean like Trevor, who did keep his balance. Even after getting pushed, picked, bump, then arm locked and pulled, then tripped over Hardens extended leg. Yet he still stayed on his feet and his eye locked on the ball which he almost stole.

That's a player trying to play basketball and its why he is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.

[hands11]

Meh, I'm a Rocket's fan, so I'm biased. I'd be pissed for sure if this happened against my team, but again, this seems just like a 50/50 call that went in favor of the Rockets that put Harden at the line to give him the opportunity to score an extra point.

Ok, sure. Let ignore Harden initiated the contact and pushed Trevor.

50/50 call. So why not a double foul ? Jump ball.

Ok, fine. This one goes to HOU.

How do you then explain this one the very next play. You see the ref under the basket near the end. What and the hell was he watching. Howards feet never stopped moving. I'm pretty sure that is part of the rules for a pick. You feet have to be set. Kind of reffing 101

[tweet]https://twitter.com/truth_about_it/status/433809529709809664[/tweet]



Is that a moving pick on Howard ?
Is Howard not holding Walls arm ?

Even if they blow the first call, they shouldn't have missed the 2nd one.

Wizards ball up 1 with like 3 second left. Highly highly unlikely Houston win that game.

Wiz go into the break at .500 having just beat OKC, GS, PHX, POR, MIA and CHI 2x all since Mon, Jan 13 and lost to MEM by 3 and took SAS into OT.

They would also have Wall in his first AS game and Beal in the 3 pt shooting and whatever that other game is called. That would have been great momentum for them. They deserved to win this game.

Refs should not be stealing game from team with back to back bad calls with the game in the balance.