Draft misses..the main difference between Winners and Losers

[giberish]

That's why I've always thought Sam Presti should be given more credit for drafting Harden and Westbrook. They were far from consensus picks. Westbrook was overshadowed by Collison and Love at UCLA and players like Love and Gordon were much more hyped up than he was with. Same with Harden. Tyreke Evans and Ricky Rubio were getting much more pub coming into the draft than Harden was. Of course Harden is gone now but that was a brilliant draft decision by Presti. If OKC had made different selections in those two drafts, they never would have made the finals in 2011 and had all the success that they've had.

Westbrook was a surprise that worked out, but Harden was pretty much the only option for OKC to 2009.

Rubio, Evans and Harden were the next players up on the board, and with Westbrook as a poor shooting guard, drafting another such as Rubio or Evans looked to be a bad fit. Really, if they didn't take Harden then Curry was the next most likely option.

In a way that makes the Westbrook selection even better, as if they took Love or Lopez (the guys talked about the most for a #4 pick) in 2008 then they probably take Rubio in 2009.

[Kabookalu]

When a team drafts a player they're getting that player on a fresh slate relatively speaking. They haven't been pampered or developed in a certain way according to how another team wants that player to turn out to be. Not to mention players are the most impressionable during that early stage of their NBA careers because of youth and not yet experiencing life as a multi-millionaire athlete and traveling cross country all year long.

And if a team is able to knock two draft picks out of the park, those draft picks will have the chance to grow with each other. Look at Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. If they were drafted by different teams, and ended up on the same team just right now, would they be able to have the same level of chemistry they have now? Will they ever? Take Kevin Love, post Jefferson he's played as the main guy for a really long time. Now he's 26 years old, the third option, and having trouble assimilating himself in the offense in Cleveland. Though if he was a second year, do you think this would be as much of a problem? He'd learn how to grow and play off of LeBron and Irving better than he can now.

I'm kind of saddened to see how Kevin Love is doing in Cleveland now because this man is one of the hardest working players in the league. He's hammered his game to be the best player he can be. He knew he'd be the man in Minnesota so he did his best at that role he possibly could. Though if he were drafted alongside another star he'd focus all of that hard work in other areas of the game to better compliment said star.

For me drafting is the best method of rebuilding because you get a bunch of young players that are still growing.

[Kabookalu]

Westbrook was a surprise that worked out, but Harden was pretty much the only option for OKC to 2009.

Rubio, Evans and Harden were the next players up on the board, and with Westbrook as a poor shooting guard, drafting another such as Rubio or Evans looked to be a bad fit. Really, if they didn't take Harden then Curry was the next most likely option.

From what I remember there were people that were hoping OKC would abandon the Westbrook as a PG experiment and hoped they would draft Rubio so they can have a proper backcourt rotation.

[83SixersRocked]

...So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

That's great if you're just looking for somebody to hate. Try it, make your picks ahead of the draft. It's not easy, it's a crapshoot.

[bruh]

People underestimate how much player development staffs play too

[hands11]

Only tangentially related to the topic: But, I've always felt the main difference between the winning and losing draft picks for the Jazz has resolved upon mental traits.

If the Jazz are going to bust on a pick, it's usually because the player isnt' right between the ears.

Right between the ears is the most undervalued skill in the game. And its the hardest thing to measure.

That's why you want a GM that knows people and knows what to look for.

Also, most players are not top franchise studs that will make it no matter what, and even then, most those players need proper mentors. So it does matter where they land, who is there to mentor them, minutes, etc.

Even MJ was mentored.

[Norm2953]

Coaching and having the right support systems in place also are important for some of these so called draft
busts find their way later on when they get to a team that knows how to get the best from them.

[ufsports]

I'm bet that K. Leonard wouldn't have done jack in the NBA had he been drafted to the Cavs...

[Kilo]

^I agree - team fit is very important. Good teams also don't need "saviors" who are forced to start and play major minutes right away. Look at Chicago and Jimmy Butler right now - he's developed into a stud over time, how many teams would have he busted on and long written off on?

[frothbrain]

cavs wasted two first first round picks in a row. That is criminal.

[UN-Owen]

Kings continue to be bad. Why, because they passed on Liliard for pretty much a bust. They drafted Jimmer...who was a bust....
Warriors sucked for the lonnnnnnngest of time...drafting Dunleavy with the 3rd pick....Joe Smith with 1st pick....on and on....UNTIL...they drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Ezeli...actually hitting on the right picks finally.

The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

Look at Wolves....drafted THREE point guards one year in the draft with Curry and non of them were Curry lol.

So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

bump this thread before or immediately after the 2015 draft. post your top 30 list of prospects, tell us who your team should have drafted, who will be a bust in the draft, etc.

To be fair, it's not like he's getting each prospect in for a private workout

[The Rebel]

Only tangentially related to the topic: But, I've always felt the main difference between the winning and losing draft picks for the Jazz has resolved upon mental traits.

If the Jazz are going to bust on a pick, it's usually because the player isnt' right between the ears.

Right between the ears is the most undervalued skill in the game. And its the hardest thing to measure.

That's why you want a GM that knows people and knows what to look for.

Also, most players are not top franchise studs that will make it no matter what, and even then, most those players need proper mentors. So it does matter where they land, who is there to mentor them, minutes, etc.

Even MJ was mentored.

Agreed, being mentored and having the mental capacity for success plays a huge part, although another equal part is the drive. to many players work very hard to get to the NBA and then when they start drawing those NBA paychecks they stop working as hard, just like some get that 1 big contract and then stop working as hard until the next contract year.

[Blame Rasho]

There is no single variable that makes a team's pick successful or not.

[Dez]

You know there's this whole thing after drafting players right? It's called developing, drafting them is only half the battle.

[Moose10Fan]

Kings continue to be bad. Why, because they passed on Liliard for pretty much a bust. They drafted Jimmer...who was a bust....
Warriors sucked for the lonnnnnnngest of time...drafting Dunleavy with the 3rd pick....Joe Smith with 1st pick....on and on....UNTIL...they drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Ezeli...actually hitting on the right picks finally.

The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

Look at Wolves....drafted THREE point guards one year in the draft with Curry and non of them were Curry lol.

So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

Actually Joe was a good drafter, just made terrible trades.

Trading nothing for Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace and Richard Hamilton was bad?

My bad, I don't know why I put trades, I meant Free Agent signings.

[jackwindham]

People underestimate how much player development staffs play too

This is exactly how I gauge the intelligence of sports fans. If they believe that "_____ _________ became a great player for another team, so that meant that he definitely would have been great on our team, regardless of the difference in roster, systems and coaches", then I know they're not all that bright.

[cpfsf]

Kings continue to be bad. Why, because they passed on Liliard for pretty much a bust. They drafted Jimmer...who was a bust....
Warriors sucked for the lonnnnnnngest of time...drafting Dunleavy with the 3rd pick....Joe Smith with 1st pick....on and on....UNTIL...they drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Ezeli...actually hitting on the right picks finally.

The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

Look at Wolves....drafted THREE point guards one year in the draft with Curry and non of them were Curry lol.

So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

bump this thread before or immediately after the 2015 draft. post your top 30 list of prospects, tell us who your team should have drafted, who will be a bust in the draft, etc.

To be fair, it's not like he's getting each prospect in for a private workout

that would make it more complex.

[Crazy-Canuck]

It isn't just the draft the "best" player.

Eye for talent (physical+mental) + player development + fit

[Orens]

I absolutely agree. Drafting is and probably always will be the most important way to succeed in the NBA. Let's look at the starting lineups or so of the playoff teams in the NBA.



Warriors: Drafted Curry, Drafted Thompson, Drafted Draymond Green. All at very favorable draft positions, I might add.
Blazers: Drafted Aldridge, Drafted Lillard, Drafted Batum
Thunder: Drafted Durant, Drafted Westbrook, Drafted Ibaka, Drafted Adams
Rockets: OK it's not ALWAYS the most important way to succeed. they did draft jones and motiejunas!
Grizzlies: Drafted Conley, at least. Quasi-drafted Gasol, in their hearts.
Spurs: Drafted Duncan, Parker, Leonard, Ginobili
Clippers: Drafted Griffin, Drafted Jordan
Mavericks: Drafted Dirk.
Pelicans? Drafted Anthony Davis
Phoenix? OK they've done a good job outside the draft lately

In the East;

Bulls: Drafted Noah, Drafted Rose, Drafted Butler, Drafted Mirotic, Drafted Gibson
Cavs: Drafted Lebron (might not count), Drafted Irving, Drafted Waiters/Thompson
Raptors: Drafted Derozan & Valanciunas and Ross
Atlanta: Drafted Horford, Drafted Teague
Washington: Drafted Wall, Drafted Beal
Milwaukee (I KNOW?!?!?): Drafted Sanders, Drafted Giannis
Pacers (special mention): Drafted Paul George & Roy Hibbert


So on like 84% of these teams, they drafted their best or second best player.

Drafting is the most important way to succeed in the NBA.

The Cavs drafting LeBron won't count because he left.
The Bucks drafted Parker, they tanked for him.
The Magic are building partially via the Dwight trade but drafted Oladipo, Gordon, Payton, O'Quinn.
The Pacers drafted Lance in the 2bd round,
The Suns drafted Len, Kieff, Warren, Ennis, Goodwin, etc.
The Thunder drafted almost their entire rotation.
The most important is to draft right and have either contributors or value. The Rockets we're looking for value.
Those teams picking consecutive busts couldn't maintain value.

[KD35Brah]

I'm bet that K. Leonard wouldn't have done jack in the NBA had he been drafted to the Cavs...

There's a reason why they have elite 3PT shooters all over the floor.