Why Do Teams Refuse to Give Young Players Chances?

[Black Jack]

One thing retread vets can do to stay on rosters is be able to scrimmage and run other teams' system. BAsically let your rotation players face the same look from other teams in practice.

[Prince12]

Nate Wolters should've got more minutes at the bucks. So should have Kendall for that matter.

[Rock Hardy]

Coaches see guys in practice. We only see them in games, but theses guys have dozens or hundreds of hours of experience with these players. If they don't trust a player, it's usually justified. Coaching churn is such they don't have time to let players grow. All sports are about winning now if you're a coach.

[Illuminati_]

Sometimes its as simple as not having the right agent that gets you in doors or ur rep.

Theres some guys if they had an opportunity could put uo numbers.

Think about it lets use demar derozan as an example. He has bee a starter since day one with a long leash. Hes became a good player but imagine similiar players with that opportunity?

[JazzMatt13]

Because most teams don't bother developing their own players. They rely on others to draft and build the stock. There have been more coming into the realization of building their own for potential all-star.

I mean if you took every team, and look at their current setup, most teams have at least 1 starter who they drafted. But not many are rocking all 5 that they drafted.

[WorldBeFree]

Marshon Brooks needs a real chance. Dude can score

Sent from my D2303 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Mich3006]

I got a chip on my shoulder. I mean, every team in the NBA said no to me – especially this team. I mean, I couldn’t even get a training-camp invite. The Clippers thought it was a good idea. Doc said no. I tried to get a workout, then Doc said no.

Doc said no because he has to look for his son´s career...
Hopefully the Clippers say no to Rivers in the near future (highly doubtful though)


I think Thomas Robinson deserves a chance!
He was in unsuitable teams in Sacramento and Houston and in Portland he´s the backup of a top 3 PF.

I would love to see him in Orlando or Minnesota, teams where he can show his game more than 12 mpg

[CelticsFTW]

The truth of the matter is that 90% of young players don't really deserve a chance. For every Hassan Whitesite, there's about 20 Craig Brackins'.

I agree. I think there is a difference between rebuilding and contending Teams. But from a celtics perspective I honestly don't get what Stevens is doing. IMO Smart has to start and has to Play 30+ minutes and Young should also play 20+ min. It drives me crazy to see Thornton and Turner in the line-up with lots of minutes. I don't get this logic, the celtics are in a rebuilding situation and in no mans land this season. Smart and Young have to play, they have to make mistakes and they have to fail sometimes. How should they get better, especially Young, when they aren't playing enough minutes. Look at Wiggins and payton for example: they didn't look like busts at the beginning of the season, but they didn't look very good either. All they had was potential. They got a lot of minutes and lots of room and this month payton is putting up the stat sheet with good numbers and Wiggins had five or six consecutive games with 20+ Pts. Maybe smart and Young aren't as good as payton or Wiggins but I want to see what they can do and I want to see some kind of development and don't want to speculate about it. I want to know what they can do, what they can't do and what they maybe can become and I don't want to see Evan freakin' Turner playing pg instead of Smart or taking away minutes from James Young.

[EscapoTHB]

I wonder how many more whitesides are out there that just need the chance? Nba scouting is mad sketchy.

[Kabookalu]

The truth of the matter is that 90% of young players don't really deserve a chance. For every Hassan Whitesite, there's about 20 Craig Brackins'.

I agree. I think there is a difference between rebuilding and contending Teams. But from a celtics perspective I honestly don't get what Stevens is doing. IMO Smart has to Start and has to Play 30+ minutes and Young should also play 20+ min. It drives me Crazy to see Thornton and Turner in the line-up with lots of minutes. I don't get this logic, the celtics are in rebuilding Situation and in no mans land this season. Smart and Young have to Play, they have to make mistakes and they have to fail sometimes. How should they get better, especially Young, when they aren't playing enough minutes. Look at Wiggins and payton for example: they didn't look like busts at the beginning of the season, but they didn't look very good either. All they had was potential. They got a lot of minutes and lots of room and this month payton is putting up the stat sheet with good numbers and Wiggins had five or six consecutive games with 20+ Pts. Maybe smart and Young aren't as good as payton or Wiggins but I want to see what they can do and I want to see some kind of development and don't want to speculate about it.

I'm not saying this as a direct retort to the Celtics young players and your post, just generally speaking, but there's this universal belief that you need to make mistakes at all costs to learn from them. Yes that's true, kinda, but I don't think that's a foregone conclusion. Not all players learn from their mistakes, they need to be taught from a superior on how to not make them. I think that players still develop when they're benched in favor of a veteran player because they're watching them play the game the right way (this isn't always true, most of the time I think it's the case though).

I learned this lesson from one of my favorite players Bismack Biyombo in his second year. I thought the best thing for him to do was to play as many minutes as he can so he can soak up whatever experience he can get. That didn't really do anything for his development, he practically wasted a year being thrown in the fire. I thought he improved a lot more playing minimal minutes off the bench in his third year when the coach actually gave him guidance and direction. Sometimes playing time doesn't automatically equate to development.

Now of course why can't those veteran players just mentor these young guys off of the court during practice and the young players just get all of the minutes during games.

If coaches didn't play their veteran players and favored their young players, I think that undermines the authority and voice of those veteran players and hinders their tutoring during practices. Like if I got playing time for my talents over an older guy, even though he's infinitely more experienced me, the subliminal message I'm being sent is that fundamentals/knowledge of the game matters little if you have talent, and there's less prerogative for me to learn playing the game the right way, as long as I have raw talent.

When young players are benched in favor of older veterans, I think that does a good job of hardlining their development curve and prioritizing their improvement towards learning the game the right way rather than just trying to expand on their talents while still committing the same rookie mistakes over and over again.

Of course though I'm not saying that all young players need to be benched for older veterans, but when it happens, I don't think it needs to be as scrutinized nearly as much as it is.

[RealRapsFan]

The questions are:

- what is the 'skill' necessary that gives someone the ability to identify talent?
- what is the 'skill' necessary that gives someone the ability to identify potential?
- is there a 'test' we can give to identify which teams/scouts/personnel have this 'skill'?

and the answer to all of the above is none.

The reality is, most of these guys are no more intelligent than everyone else out there. However since they managed to get involved in the industry at some point (usually because they had the ability to play basketball at some high level) the assumption is they know the game better, and as such are the ones most likely to be given opportunities. But so what? Does being able to jump high mean you are smarter? Is being tall correlated with spotting potential?

The NBA, like most sports leagues, is an old boys club. You need to be in the club in order to advance in the club. As such the experience tends to stay with same type of people (athletes) rather than being distributed to the different types of skill sets, which would (over time) allow the cream to eventually rise to the top. It would be like a billion dollar company only hiring former bakers to run a multi-national bakery franchise. Doesn't mean a baker would be bad at doing, but baking bread =/= running a multi-national company. They are 2 very different things.

And what happens in an 'old boys club', which sports leagues tend to be, is the same people, teach other people of a similar mind, the same things... over and over and over... down the years. Change becomes slow, and the same 'things' are valued over and over again, even if they aren't the most efficient 'things' that should be valued.

So why don't teams give young players a chance, or constantly give the wrong players a chance... because they lack something or have something the league/team values, but measures poorly.

[CelticsFTW]

The truth of the matter is that 90% of young players don't really deserve a chance. For every Hassan Whitesite, there's about 20 Craig Brackins'.

I agree. I think there is a difference between rebuilding and contending Teams. But from a celtics perspective I honestly don't get what Stevens is doing. IMO Smart has to Start and has to Play 30+ minutes and Young should also play 20+ min. It drives me Crazy to see Thornton and Turner in the line-up with lots of minutes. I don't get this logic, the celtics are in rebuilding Situation and in no mans land this season. Smart and Young have to Play, they have to make mistakes and they have to fail sometimes. How should they get better, especially Young, when they aren't playing enough minutes. Look at Wiggins and payton for example: they didn't look like busts at the beginning of the season, but they didn't look very good either. All they had was potential. They got a lot of minutes and lots of room and this month payton is putting up the stat sheet with good numbers and Wiggins had five or six consecutive games with 20+ Pts. Maybe smart and Young aren't as good as payton or Wiggins but I want to see what they can do and I want to see some kind of development and don't want to speculate about it.

I'm not saying this as a direct retort to the Celtics young players and your post, just generally speaking, but there's this universal belief that you need to make mistakes at all costs to learn from them. Yes that's true, kinda, but I don't think that's a foregone conclusion. Not all players learn from their mistakes, they need to be taught from a superior on how to not make them. I think that players still develop when they're benched in favor of a veteran player because they're watching them play the game the right way (this isn't always true, most of the time I think it's the case though).

I learned this lesson from one of my favorite players Bismack Biyombo in his second year. I thought the best thing for him to do was to play as many minutes as he can so he can soak up whatever experience he can get. That didn't really do anything for his development, he practically wasted a year being thrown in the fire. I thought he improved a lot more playing minimal minutes off the bench in his third year when the coach actually gave him guidance and direction. Sometimes playing time doesn't automatically equate to development.

Now of course why can't those veteran players just mentor these young guys off of the court during practice and the young players just get all of the minutes during games.

If coaches didn't play their veteran players and favored their young players, I think that undermines the authority and voice of those veteran players and hinders their tutoring during practices. Like if I got playing time for my talents over an older guy, even though he's infinitely more experienced me, the subliminal message I'm being sent is that fundamentals/knowledge of the game matters little if you have talent, and there's less prerogative for me to learn playing the game the right way, as long as I have raw talent.

When young players are benched in favor of older veterans, I think that does a good job of hardlining their development curve and prioritizing their improvement towards learning the game the right way rather than just trying to expand on their talents while still committing the same rookie mistakes over and over again.

Of course though I'm not saying that all young players need to be benched for older veterans, but when it happens, I don't think it needs to be as scrutinized nearly as much as it is.

In general I totally agree with you. I was only referring to the Boston situation. In general I agree with you, young talents need veteran guys in the team, so they can learn to play the right way. But the Celtics traded away Green, Rondo and Wright and I am very skeptical on how much Smart and Young can learn from watching Thornton and Turner play. The currently players on the Celtics roster (excluding Bass and Crash, but I think Bass will also get tradet soon) are not those players I would wish mentoring Rookies or young talents. So for the moment, I don't get what Stevens strategy is.

[King4Day]

The truth of the matter is that 90% of young players don't really deserve a chance. For every Hassan Whitesite, there's about 20 Craig Brackins'.

Thread winning comment.

[tidho]

The truth of the matter is that 90% of young players don't really deserve a chance. For every Hassan Whitesite, there's about 20 Craig Brackins'.

^ sound about right.

[snoopdogg88]

heck in baseball guys get drafted at 18 and typically don't get called up until they turn 23-24 years old

[Cycklops]

If you're talking about guys who aren't on rosters, for every talented player calling to get a tryout, there are 50 untalented ones calling them about the same thing.

If you're talking about guys who are already on the roster but can't get minutes...they DO get a chance...they play scrimmages constantly in practice. The coach has seen how the kid plays and for one reason or another, doesn't think he'll help the team as much as the other guys at that point.

[queridiculo]

It can only take a season or two to earn a reputation, and once that perception about a player is established it's hard to convince people otherwise. NBA history is littered with guys that had all the potential in the world, but simply couldn't get their heads out of their asses long enough to establish themselves.

Whiteside admitted that he was a punk coming into the league, so good on him for learning from his mistake, and finding that fire in his belly to prove the teams that wouldn't give him a chance wrong.

It's hard to change, and I'm glad and a bit jealous, that he worked out for the Heat, but I'd also caution people to get too excited because if he lets this little bit of success he's had go to his head, it could be over for him again real quick.

[Yoshun]

Coaches see guys in practice. We only see them in games, but theses guys have dozens or hundreds of hours of experience with these players. If they don't trust a player, it's usually justified. Coaching churn is such they don't have time to let players grow. All sports are about winning now if you're a coach.

Yea this is my thinking too. Coaches know the players better and they are always going to put the best players out there, or try to. They don't really care if a guy is going to be good 4 or 5 years from now because, if they don't win now, they won't have a job at that time.

In addition, most of the time, when fans are complaining about a young guy not getting minutes it's because the fans are overrating the player.

[Sundreamer]

Why Do Teams Refuse to Give Young Players Chances?

Because some teams desperately want to make the playoffs even though they have no chance.

[ManualRam]

because players have to earn their playing time sometimes?
what's wrong with that?
the vets who ARE playing are working their asses off too for the most part. why should they be immediately displaced by a lesser player?
i think fans selfishly just want to see development happen before their eyes when the reality is that improvement occurs in practice, workouts, off-season, film sessions, etc.
let the kids learn the game and earn their keep. that's how teams build accountability and culture. there is nothing wrong with gradual progression.