Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year

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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#21 » by guest81 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:46 pm

j-ragg wrote:
guest81 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I'd rather give it to Mirotic. Lot of good long term prospects but Nik has been the best when given the minutes all year.

I do agree that it's silly we give it to the guy that plays the most for the worst team and say "jack up whatever shots you want".


Kinda silly to say Wiggins is just "jacking up shots" when he's shooting better from the field then Mirotic

http://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nba/true-shooting-percentage-ts.aspx
What is True Shooting Percentage - TS%?
A statistic in basketball used to gauge shooting efficiency that takes into consideration points scored from three pointers, field goals and free-throws to get a measure of points scored each shooting attempt.

It is calculated as follows:

Points / (2 * (FG Attempts + 0.44 * FT Attempts))

It's 2015. Raw FG% is kind of stupid to use these days.


Oh well in that case, Mirotic isn't even one of the top shooters on his team then right?
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#22 » by kodo » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:47 pm

If you value raw production all year long, the winner is Wiggins.

Wiggins: 15.8 ppg 4.3 rpg 1.8 apg
Noel: 9.5 ppg 7.9 rpg 1.6 apg

If you value PER, the winner is Mirotic
Noel: 14.4 PER
Wiggins: 13.0 PER
Mirotic: 17.8 PER

If you value Win Share, the winner is Mirotic
Noel: 3.4
Wiggins: 1.5
Mirotic: 4.8

If you value TS%, the winner is Mirotic
Noel: .490
Wiggins: .507
Mirotic: .555

If you value Real Plus Minus, the winner is Mirotic
Noel: -1.78
Wiggins: -1.47
Mirotic: +2.75

There's two ways of looking at it. Raw, overall production determines ROY. Then it's Wiggins.
Advanced stats & metrics & impact. Then it's Mirotic.

Noel doesn't win ROY on either POV.

But in general the ROY has usually gone to overall raw production so it will probably be Wiggins.
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#23 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:51 pm

Mik317 wrote:and honestly I'd rather he didn't get it so he can stay hungry and mad and keep proving the doubters wrong.


I'm not sure he can control whether his body breaks down on him.
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#24 » by j-ragg » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:53 pm

guest81 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
guest81 wrote:
Kinda silly to say Wiggins is just "jacking up shots" when he's shooting better from the field then Mirotic

http://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nba/true-shooting-percentage-ts.aspx
What is True Shooting Percentage - TS%?
A statistic in basketball used to gauge shooting efficiency that takes into consideration points scored from three pointers, field goals and free-throws to get a measure of points scored each shooting attempt.

It is calculated as follows:

Points / (2 * (FG Attempts + 0.44 * FT Attempts))

It's 2015. Raw FG% is kind of stupid to use these days.


Oh well in that case, Mirotic isn't even one of the top shooters on his team then right?

Solid deflection.

I guess it depends how you define "top". He's 4th on his team and the other 3 are guards. Doing okay for a rookie IMO.

Wiggins on the other hand, out of the 24 players the TWolves have had this year he's 12th on his team in TS%. He's not very efficient. He will get better. But right now he isn't. Why is that so hard to see?
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#25 » by asdfgh » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:05 pm

Noel is good but Mirotic is the ROY without a doubt.
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#26 » by PZiv » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:08 pm

Sorry but no.
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#27 » by Merc_Porto » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:09 pm

asdfgh wrote:Noel is good but Mirotic is the ROY without a doubt.


Because of March :lol: (MY GOODNESS :banghead: )
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#28 » by PZiv » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:14 pm

mercgold3 wrote:
asdfgh wrote:Noel is good but Mirotic is the ROY without a doubt.


Because of March :lol: (MY GOODNESS :banghead: )

they don't call it March Madness for nothing tho.
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#29 » by Mik317 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:15 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Mik317 wrote:and honestly I'd rather he didn't get it so he can stay hungry and mad and keep proving the doubters wrong.


I'm not sure he can control whether his body breaks down on him.


what?

This narrative is really weird. Noel has been surprisingly healthy.

I don't get why people keep bringing this up....Embiid is the one to worry about. Noel lost a year after slamming his knee into a stanchion. He has been surprisingly durable. Its like people want him to get hurt so they can go "see I told you so". This board is weird
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#30 » by hookshot199 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:22 pm

laploutocratie wrote:
SMH wrote:
laploutocratie wrote:Holy **** the insecurity with Noel is unreal.

What insecurity? Lol he's been playing pretty good and fair to say hes in the ROY race.


I know he's been playing well, but there's a new thread on GB every few days about how it's such a debacle he's not a clear-cut ROY. Keep your panties on Noel fans, the media hasn't even voted yet. Is ROY even that important? More important is that he continues to develop and becomes an effective player. Look at MCW, he was ROY but the Sixers front office jettisoned him away less than two years into his career.


You're not suggesting that the Wolves' front office is going to jettison Wiggins?
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#31 » by nyk97 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:26 pm

MasterHinkie wrote:
nyk97 wrote:you guys are looking at how noel and even mirotic have been playing RECENTLY and have been crowning them. wiggins has been good all*** season. emphasis on ALL.


Defensively, Noel has been doing it ALL season. Yes, Noel has only shown improvement on offense as of recent but Noel has been killing it in most defensive metrics.


im not taking anything away from either noel or mirotic. all 3 have been extremely good. but wiggins has been the favorite and i believe its too late to take it away from him. we shall see tho it could really go either way.
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#32 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:08 pm

Mik317 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Mik317 wrote:and honestly I'd rather he didn't get it so he can stay hungry and mad and keep proving the doubters wrong.


I'm not sure he can control whether his body breaks down on him.


what?

This narrative is really weird. Noel has been surprisingly healthy.

I don't get why people keep bringing this up....Embiid is the one to worry about. Noel lost a year after slamming his knee into a stanchion. He has been surprisingly durable. Its like people want him to get hurt so they can go "see I told you so". This board is weird


Then what doubters are you talking about?

The reason Noel dropped like a rock in the draft was because he was red-flagged and the Doctors expressed concerns that his body wouldn't hold up. This isn't an exact science. They didn't say the guy wouldn't make it more than 30 games before breaking down. He's just at a higher risk of breaking down.

So, if Noel has a long and reasonably healthy career, than feel free to look back and scoff. Same goes for Embiid and Alex Len for that matter who's also been reasonably healthy since his foot operations; but only time will tell.
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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#33 » by Mik317 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:36 pm

The doubters are just code for general people who don't think he can make it and it is a good motivational tool. I feel like MCW got kind of a big head and rested on his laurels after winning the award and acted like he had arrived and was the franchise...(which is why I think the trade and these struggles with the Bucks are the best thing that could happen to him as it will be a great wake up call). Noel is driven from being passed up and seems to be a firery guy so maybe being snubbed (in his mind) from this award will only fuel him more. That is all I said...

I also think he dropped because most of the bottom 5 couldn't really wait for him to recover (Cleveland and Washington both had win now calls from their owners or else dudes would lose their jobs) but his frame definitely had something to do with it tho. I think it is a bit silly considering how he got hurt but I digress. So far he has been pretty healthy (knock on wood)
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Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#34 » by tooler » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:54 pm

My concern with Noel is that when something historic happens on these 76ers teams, like Noel's defensive numbers, it may be wise to put it in context with the historically unique construction of their team. I'm not going to use the D word, but I think it's safe to say the roster has been built to give individual players -- some of them unsung -- an unprecedented opportunity to play with a long leash. They play hard as hell and have pretty good team defensive efficiency -- a lot better than my awful team -- so I'm not saying they're all running amok. But it's possible this experiment may lead to some statistical outliers on offense and defense.

We're all well aware of how easy it is to pump offensive counting stats on a bad team. We all know there are advanced metrics that see right through that type of thing. But the advanced metrics for defense aren't quite as refined, are they? I personally don't know a lot about them, so I'm asking. If the metrics rely heavily on blocks, steals, and rebounds, we know there are ways to boost those stats to the detriment of sound team defensive principles.

Based on what I've read, the adjusted +/- metrics try to factor out these problems. They have serious problems of their own, which I've seen with my own eyes by watching them change over the course of a year with little rhyme or reason.

There's also the eye test. I haven't watched every game the 76ers played, but I made sure to watch Noel carefully in his game against the Magic just after the ASB. After hearing all the hype and the numbers, I genuinely expected him to set a career high in blocks with all the soft stuff our players put up at the rim. I expected to be embarrassed for my team. I was surprised to see they turned him around quite a bit with nifty passing in the paint, and Vucevic was able to seal him off repeatedly for offensive rebounds and post position.

That was just one game. Maybe Noel had a bad night -- he's a rookie after all -- or the Magic played unusually well. However, I took a peek in the 76ers forum that night and saw some fans wonder out loud whether his defensive stats were just empty numbers. Every fanbase has doubts after a bad game. But we typically only see the good news here on the General Board so it makes me wonder what's real.

I'm sure he has the tools. Not every player can generate blocks and steals that well even if they threw caution to the wind. He'll be a fine player. But are we so sure his impact on defense this season is any more reliable than offensive counting stats? Someone will have to convince me that advanced defensive metrics are sound and that RPM isn't, since he shows poorly by that metric. (I'm ready to believe that one's bogus at least.)

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Re: Nerlens Noel should be rookie of the year 

Post#35 » by LloydFree » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:13 pm

Good grief. Every year with this. The Rookie of the year award is so meaningless. I'm a 76er fan and it doesn't mean a thing to me. All that matters is how these guys project.
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