Anyone else think Hornacek is getting jobbed a little?

[Inigo Montoya]

He can coach my team any day.

[NaturalBuns]

I'll say this he made avg players play good for awhile. He just sucks at drawing up anything good though.

The Suns GM has defeintitly left a mess for Jeff. Can't blame the GM either though because he did what every team fan base should want.


He was in Lebrons final 4 teams when he was a FA though it was very long shot it was still interesting to see him say phx.

Following season they went all out for LA and it was between Spurs and Suns. The after math of this all in push has been determental to the lockeroom because it shows anyone is tradeable that first season Jeff came it felt like the whole organization had a bond from players all the way up to owner. That bridge was broken going for a star.

So the GM made the right moves that led to making the team unhappy and Jeff job and risk in reality nobody should be fired

[Nate505]

He should be given a medal for dealing with that cancer Morris

[Arp590]

The NBA is terrible in regards to coaches, you can literally win coach of the year one year and the next year be fired.
Front office's pretty much expect you to turn the 76ers roster into a 30 win team.

[Dominator83]

Can't blame the coach when the talent stinks. Especially now with Bledsoe being hurt. Red Auerbach wouldn't win with that team in that situation

[JDizzel3000]

so what makes this team look to be in any better shape than Philadelphia again?

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Agree with all but in fairness Knight has been pretty damn good. But yeah you're right.

Has he? Poor assist/turnover ratio for a PG. Undersized to defend the 2. He can score at a bit above average efficiency, but is that enough to make him "pretty damn good"?

I guess I see the Suns as having decent depth. They just don't have any "pretty damn good" players except Bledsoe imo. That's why they're 12-20.

[jason bourne]

Sounds like you're just scapegoating the GM for this season. It's not the way to judge a GM. GM Ryan McDonough is a good GM. Before McD, didn't you have now Warriors coach Steve Kerr?

Then the Suns are still rebuilding are they not? Hornacek is getting another chance after his review. That's on the GM. If he was going to blame Hornacek, then he would've just fired him. What it sounds like to me is there was a thorough investigation and they fired two assistant coaches.

The Suns problem isn't pace (3rd in pace), but their offense is slow. They are bottom third in offensive efficiency. They're still not a good passing team. Their defensive efficiency is bottom third, too.

But to address your issues.

1. Hornacek wasn't playing IT3 that much. I don't see how PHX was going to keep IT3 cause they would've had to give the big bucks to Dragic or as it turned out Brandon Knight. Dragic really screwed you guys, so I can't blame the coach nor the GM Ryan McDonough. PHX was lucky to get Brandon Knight in that situation. PHX got a first-round 2016 pick and Marcus Thornton whom Hornacek didn't play that much.
2. Ditto.
3. It looked like Dragic was being selfish. He was going to get paid the big bucks from PHX wasn't he? If I was a Suns' fan, I would hate Dragic.
4. You left out the Morris brothers were arrested for felony aggravated assault. Marcus Morris was traded so McDonough could go after LaMarcus Aldridge. Aldridge seriously considered the Suns. It was between your team and the Spurs.
5. Kieff was selfish to dictate what the GM should do. He should have just talked with the GM instead of making it public and being frustrated.
6. Chandler was to bring some veteran leadership and defense to the team in my opinion.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

Coaches get a raw deal all the time. Kevin Mchale coached the rockets to the conference finals; as far as they had been in 18 years. Yet he gets fired 11 games into the next season.

Hornacek may or may not be a good coach. His first year he greatly overachieved. Since that point, they have not met expectations. Unless you are coaching a dumpster fire like the Sixers, if you miss the playoffs your first 2 years, and start as poorly as the Suns have this year, you are going to get fired. Just the way it is in the NBA whether it is the coaches fault or not.

[bwgood77]

Can't blame the coach when the talent stinks. Especially now with Bledsoe being hurt. Red Auerbach wouldn't win with that team in that situation

Yeah, just way too high of expectations for the coach from the owner and most fans.

[bwgood77]

Sounds like you're just scapegoating the GM for this season. It's not the way to judge a GM. GM Ryan McDonough is a good GM. Before McD, didn't you have now Warriors coach Steve Kerr?

Then the Suns are still rebuilding are they not? Hornacek is getting another chance after his review. That's on the GM. If he was going to blame Hornacek, then he would've just fired him. What it sounds like to me is there was a thorough investigation and they fired two assistant coaches.

The Suns problem isn't pace (3rd in pace), but their offense is slow. They are bottom third in offensive efficiency. They're still not a good passing team. Their defensive efficiency is bottom third, too.

But to address your issues.

1. Hornacek wasn't playing IT3 that much. I don't see how PHX was going to keep IT3 cause they would've had to give the big bucks to Dragic or as it turned out Brandon Knight. Dragic really screwed you guys, so I can't blame the coach nor the GM Ryan McDonough. PHX was lucky to get Brandon Knight in that situation. PHX got a first-round 2016 pick and Marcus Thornton whom Hornacek didn't play that much.
2. Ditto.
3. It looked like Dragic was being selfish. He was going to get paid the big bucks from PHX wasn't he? If I was a Suns' fan, I would hate Dragic.
4. You left out the Morris brothers were arrested for felony aggravated assault. Marcus Morris was traded so McDonough could go after LaMarcus Aldridge. Aldridge seriously considered the Suns. It was between your team and the Spurs.
5. Kieff was selfish to dictate what the GM should do. He should have just talked with the GM instead of making it public and being frustrated.
6. Chandler was to bring some veteran leadership and defense to the team in my opinion.

McD has mostly been a good GM. He hasn't built the team with passers though, so guys resort mostly to tendencies when plays break down.

IT played about 26 minutes, same as he played for Boston last year, though he does play more this year, but they also don't have two starting quality PGs playing with him.

Kerr was GM until 2010. After that Sarver was for a bit and replaced Amare with Turkoglu, Childress and Warrick, and then brought in Lance Blanks who went after Beasley and drafted Kendall Marshall at 13. McD came into a pretty bad situation as did Hornacek, who coached a team of Dragic, a first ever starter in Bledsoe out for half the year, so sub in Gerald Green for half the year, PJ Tucker, Channing Frye and Miles Plumlee to 48 wins, and since then the roster has turned over every six months, making Dragic and IT disgruntled, then after the deadline last year and trades, Knight gets injured and out for season along with entire frontcourt.

This year another new team with a bunch of new players. Underachieved lately though, and coaching has made it's mistakes, but roster has had zero continuity since he has been there which would make it tough for any coach.

[bwgood77]

so what makes this team look to be in any better shape than Philadelphia again?

Not much, but they started in same place a couple summers ago, and Suns have shown to progress faster. Sixers have gotten higher picks, but will Embiid end up better than Warren? Not sure, but I'd probably take Warren for more of a sure thing. Okafor surely has higher upside than Booker, but Booker is a stud and has fewer weaknesses. Both have stockpiled picks. Suns have better guards already, though not really great ones.

I'd still probably take Suns roster. Sixers do have Saric coming but Suns have Bogdanovic (two time Euro player of the year iirc) so who knows who ends up better.

If one of the two teams gets Simmons or Ingram (or maybe Bender) that team will appear to be in better shape, and Philly's odds are better, but for current rosters, I think I'd take Phoenix's. Philly in better cap situation but I am not sure they will lure stars since everyone will have cap space...Suns used it early before contracts really rise.

[Synciere]

A little? Maybe.

A lot? Heck no. M

The Suns have run this two and three point guard scenario in part because of the system that Hornacek put in. And while we can't blame him for the Morris twins, isn't it a coach's job to diffuse those situations as they occur to keep the players motivated and happy? I'm talking before the trade of Morris, not after. There are already tumors of tension between Knight and Bledsoe, essentially the same thing that happened last year. You could blame the front office, but again, I'm paying you millions of dollars as a coach because of how you communicate and relate to he players, not just ordering them around.

I like Hornacek, but coaches have been fired for less. If I'm the Suns I most definitely wouldn't fire him unless I know I have someone better already lined up, but coaches should always improve teams, and this team is arguably more talented than last year's team and has regressed.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

As a Heat fan I'd gladly trade head coaches with Phoenix lol

[Revived]

Thing with Hornacek is that he's a really nice guy. He's too nice to be a HC, but perfect to be an assistant.

The players literally walk all over him. Only a very small handful in the locker room actually respects him.

He may be good for a veteran team but not good for a rebuilding team where these young immature kids are just gonna walk all over him and do whatever they actually want.

His rotations are also very bizarre. Plus it has looked like it was his idea to incorporate the dual PG system into Phoenix which has been a massive failure to say the least. He wants to play the way him and Kevin Johnson played without realizing that Knight and Bledsoe are not him and Kevin Johnson.

Whatever team he coaches next, I would expect him to bring his 2 PG system with him there so best of luck with that.

[AtheJ415]

Hornacek has been thoroughly unable to cause any real improvement on both ends of the court. Yes, he was dealt a bad hand, although aside from Chandler it is one that makes sense if you are trying to rebuild. But given the hand he's been dealt, he's been absolutely awful. The rotations are beyond awful. He hasn't been able to get guys to buy in (and it's beyond just Markieff), and has the worst defense in basketball despite having Chandler, Tucker, and Bledsoe in the starting lineup for much of the year.

Sorry, he's not been jobbed. He's been awful this year.

[AtheJ415]

Thing with Hornacek is that he's a really nice guy. He's too nice to be a HC, but perfect to be an assistant.

The players literally walk all over him. Only a very small handful in the locker room actually respects him.

He may be good for a veteran team but not good for a rebuilding team where these young immature kids are just gonna walk all over him and do whatever they actually want.

His rotations are also very bizarre. Plus it has looked like it was his idea to incorporate the dual PG system into Phoenix which has been a massive failure to say the least. He wants to play the way him and Kevin Johnson played without realizing that Knight and Bledsoe are not him and Kevin Johnson.

Whatever team he coaches next, I would expect him to bring his 2 PG system with him there so best of luck with that.

Yup. And it wasn't this year alone. These were issues last year when we technicalled ourselves out of contention. That's part of why we traded half the team at the deadline. Because we were treating it like a player problem. Yet, here we are again, and the lack of discipline is still there.

[aIvin adams]

Thing with Hornacek is that he's a really nice guy. He's too nice to be a HC, but perfect to be an assistant.

The players literally walk all over him. Only a very small handful in the locker room actually respects him.

He may be good for a veteran team but not good for a rebuilding team where these young immature kids are just gonna walk all over him and do whatever they actually want.

His rotations are also very bizarre. Plus it has looked like it was his idea to incorporate the dual PG system into Phoenix which has been a massive failure to say the least. He wants to play the way him and Kevin Johnson played without realizing that Knight and Bledsoe are not him and Kevin Johnson.

Whatever team he coaches next, I would expect him to bring his 2 PG system with him there so best of luck with that.

didn't notice Horny's lineups as wonky until this year. i guess it was a problem for us last year but it seemed to me like a roster-construction issue rather than a coaching issue.

this year i have been left head-scratching countless times w his rotations. i am curious-- literally just very very curious-- about the motivation for some of these things. it started with Booker killing it in limited minutes in the season opener and then DNP-CDing for the next week and a half. there have been times Archie was in the rotation and then, when we are matched up against a team he has played well against and against which we all expect him to excel, and he suddenly sits.

he's one of the most well-liked former Suns players of all time tho. it would take a while longer before fans here call for his head.

[Damkac]

So Suns fans think that Hornacek is terrible and need to be replaced.

Fans of the other teams think that Hornacek is good coach who is getting jobbed and is just a scapegoat.

Who is right? Mayby the people who actually watch Suns play this year?

[jbk1234]

So Suns fans think that Hornacek is terrible and need to be replaced.

Fans of the other teams think that Hornacek is good coach who is getting jobbed and is just a scapegoat.

Who is right? Mayby the people who actually watch Suns play this year?

I remember Rockets fans feeling the same way about McHale.