What is the Suns plan?

[bwgood77]

A few years ago they seemed to have a bright young gm who was rebuilding and collecting young players draft picks etc

Then they overachieve in a year where they looked like they were rebuilding which seemed to get them impatient and they've been chasing an 8th seed ever since.. Doing all types of weird things from hoarding pg's to giving up a huge asset in the lakers pick for Brandon Knight to signing a broken down Tyson Chandler..

Now they're stuck as a treadmill team which is the worst place you can be in the nba..Are they gonna continue to put all their chips in on players just to desperately be a bottom seed playoff team eventually? That seems to be the direction

The overachieving thing hurt somewhat, because it created unrealistic expectations from fans and owner, but I like the TJ Warren pick anyway. But the expectations and knee jerk reaction to do SOMETHING in free agency by signing IT REALLY hurt team chemistry leading to a disgruntled Dragic and more knee jerk moves.

Since Dragic was likely going to leave for nothing, I was fine for trading him for two firsts, but obviously that doesn't help us much now. I'd rather have the Lakers pick and Ennis backing up Bledsoe than Knight, but I'm hoping Knight eventually proves me wrong, and he has a chance to show more stuff with Bledsoe being out for the season.

I know this is supposed to be a bad draft, so I don't know if the 5th pick would be that much better than the 10th, so they want our players to play.

It's tough for the fans to go through this stretch because the last two times had bad teams before this 5 year stretch, we somehow made instant huge turnarounds with the Nance for KJ trade, taking us from 28 to 55 wins and the WCF, and then the Nash signing 17 years later, which took us from 29 wins to 62. So not making the playoffs is especially painful for most Suns fans, especially ones that came on during the KJ/Barkley years, and ESPECIALLY the ones that came on in the SSOL era.

But the pressure to get the playoffs has left us with no team continuity and constant roster turnover every few months for three years, making Hornacek's job considerably tougher.

Luckily for Arizona sports fans, we have the Cardinals this year.

[Purch]

By the way, what's the offical reason why they haven't moved Morris? Are they juat content to let his trade value drop?

[bwgood77]

By the way, what's the offical reason why they haven't moved Morris? Are they juat content to let his trade value drop?

Well they haven't announced the official reason, but the guess is that they are waiting until either January 15th to make something like a Terrence Jones and Corey Brewer swap, or, since Leuer, Tucker and Teletovic have showed they can play the 4 now and Markieff isn't even playing, then there really isn't a big reason to hurry and trade him if his value stays low.

I'm guessing he would have more value in the summer when teams strike out on free agents they were hoping to sign and maybe at this trade deadline if teams have injuries and are just waiting and trying to lowball the Suns.

[mixerball]

like others before me said, from Isaiah thomas onward it was strange. i think they really were setting that team that went on to win 48 games to fail and tank. mcdonough got (falsely?)praised for that and now they are where they are.

[Frank Lee]

yes.... but where are we ?

[pacers33granger]

They've made some bad moves lately, but I think they're in a better position than most here apparently. Of course there's uncertainty and a seeming lack of direction, but the pieces are there to change that imo and that's better than a good chunk of teams. Things haven't fallen well for them, but there's still some reason for optimism.

- None of their deals are really cap crippling with the new money coming in. Bledsoe/Chandler are likely to be seen as bad or neutral contracts and Knight may be overpaid, but none are albatross deals or anything.
- The Morris situation sucks, but who knows how it will play out.
- They'll still have a chunk of cap space next offseason and could easily carve more if need be.
- They have 3 guys who look like possible long term pieces on rookie deals in Booker, Warren, and Len.
- They have all of their own picks, Cleveland's pick this year, and two future Miami picks that could be really nice or good trade bait.

No it's not great, but there's no need for a full teardown or anything.

[Nazrmohamed]

By the way, what's the offical reason why they haven't moved Morris? Are they juat content to let his trade value drop?

Well they haven't announced the official reason, but the guess is that they are waiting until either January 15th to make something like a Terrence Jones and Corey Brewer swap, or, since Leuer, Tucker and Teletovic have showed they can play the 4 now and Markieff isn't even playing, then there really isn't a big reason to hurry and trade him if his value stays low.

I'm guessing he would have more value in the summer when teams strike out on free agents they were hoping to sign and maybe at this trade deadline if teams have injuries and are just waiting and trying to lowball the Suns.

Which one is the better Morris. I've lost track, is it the one in Pheonix or Detroit?

[saintEscaton]

They've made some bad moves lately, but I think they're in a better position than most here apparently. Of course there's uncertainty and a seeming lack of direction, but the pieces are there to change that imo and that's better than a good chunk of teams. Things haven't fallen well for them, but there's still some reason for optimism.

- None of their deals are really cap crippling with the new money coming in. Bledsoe/Chandler are likely to be seen as bad or neutral contracts and Knight may be overpaid, but none are albatross deals or anything.
- The Morris situation sucks, but who knows how it will play out.
- They'll still have a chunk of cap space next offseason and could easily carve more if need be.
- They have 3 guys who look like possible long term pieces on rookie deals in Booker, Warren, and Len.
- They have all of their own picks, Cleveland's pick this year, and two future Miami picks that could be really nice or good trade bait.

No it's not great, but there's no need for a full teardown or anything.

You can exclude Len from that list

[bwgood77]

By the way, what's the offical reason why they haven't moved Morris? Are they juat content to let his trade value drop?

Well they haven't announced the official reason, but the guess is that they are waiting until either January 15th to make something like a Terrence Jones and Corey Brewer swap, or, since Leuer, Tucker and Teletovic have showed they can play the 4 now and Markieff isn't even playing, then there really isn't a big reason to hurry and trade him if his value stays low.

I'm guessing he would have more value in the summer when teams strike out on free agents they were hoping to sign and maybe at this trade deadline if teams have injuries and are just waiting and trying to lowball the Suns.

Which one is the better Morris. I've lost track, is it the one in Pheonix or Detroit?

In college, Marcus, in the pros until this year, Markieff. This year, Marcus.

From what I saw last year, Marcus is extremely streaky. Can have a huge game and can have a string of bad games, and can be a hothead, particularly when with his brother and/or not starting when he thinks he should. Markieff was by far Phx's most clutch player, particularly at the end of games last year.

Markieff was always more grounded and seemed more level headed. This year he has sucked though. I think in the right situation, Markieff could be a GREAT sixth man and even a quality starter. I think many teams probably know this.

[Laimbeer]

And signing chandler put them in the running for Aldridge

This part still makes me cringe. Did the Suns GM really think a 33-year-old Chandler is going to convince Aldridge to choose the Suns over the Spurs (who are a winning franchise since like 200 years) if it comes down to these two teams?

No you're stuck with a washed up C on an untradable contract who, in addition takes minutes away from your young prospect.
Well played sir.

Of course it could still easily be that this whole mediocracy thing is ownership driven. Nevertheless weird decisions all over the place.

Actually, it did make a difference according to Aldridge. The Suns went from having no shot at Aldridge to being a team that actually made him stop and look.

Tyson isn't a guy that'll hurt you. He's good to have around, even if just as a veteran presence. The thing that raised eyebrows was the length of the contract. I didn't think he'd get more than 3 years from anyone.

You spend $52M on an aging center if it gets Aldridge to sign - but not to get him to "look".

[kodo]

Sarver has been consistently anti-tanking, if that explains things any more clearly.

Prior to the season, most pundits branded the Suns as prime candidates to “tank” — intentionally selling off their best talent in order to position themselves for a high draft pick. Sarver, president of basketball operations Lon Babby and general manager Ryan McDonough bucked against that philosophy, though.

The Suns explored the idea of tanking by studying past teams in similar situations to theirs who chose that route for their rebuild, as the owner described to the show.

“We went back and did a study (of) the last 24 years of all teams who went through what we call the tanking process — defined as really trying to get bad — and the average team took seven to eight years to get back into the playoffs,” he said. “So we didn’t really think that was a good option.

“There’s no guarantees you’re going to win the lottery. There’s no guarantees you’re going to draft the right people. You may end up with a bunch of young players but you still may not be good.”

It's ironic the reason Sarver didn't tank was because it can take 7 to 8 years to get back in the playoffs, and Phoenix will be in its 6th year of not being in the playoffs.

[saintEscaton]

Sarver has been consistently anti-tanking, if that explains things any more clearly.

Prior to the season, most pundits branded the Suns as prime candidates to “tank” — intentionally selling off their best talent in order to position themselves for a high draft pick. Sarver, president of basketball operations Lon Babby and general manager Ryan McDonough bucked against that philosophy, though.

The Suns explored the idea of tanking by studying past teams in similar situations to theirs who chose that route for their rebuild, as the owner described to the show.

“We went back and did a study (of) the last 24 years of all teams who went through what we call the tanking process — defined as really trying to get bad — and the average team took seven to eight years to get back into the playoffs,” he said. “So we didn’t really think that was a good option.

“There’s no guarantees you’re going to win the lottery. There’s no guarantees you’re going to draft the right people. You may end up with a bunch of young players but you still may not be good.”

It's ironic the reason Sarver didn't tank was because it can take 7 to 8 years to get back in the playoffs, and Phoenix will be in its 6th year of not being in the playoffs.

Sarver is an idiot. There is no karmic cycle that rewards trying in good sincerity. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if our drought continues past a decade the way we are going

[contract]

This part still makes me cringe. Did the Suns GM really think a 33-year-old Chandler is going to convince Aldridge to choose the Suns over the Spurs (who are a winning franchise since like 200 years) if it comes down to these two teams?

No you're stuck with a washed up C on an untradable contract who, in addition takes minutes away from your young prospect.
Well played sir.

Of course it could still easily be that this whole mediocracy thing is ownership driven. Nevertheless weird decisions all over the place.

Actually, it did make a difference according to Aldridge. The Suns went from having no shot at Aldridge to being a team that actually made him stop and look.

Tyson isn't a guy that'll hurt you. He's good to have around, even if just as a veteran presence. The thing that raised eyebrows was the length of the contract. I didn't think he'd get more than 3 years from anyone.

You spend $52M on an aging center if it gets Aldridge to sign - but not to get him to "look".

You spend $52m on an aging C if it gets Lebron to sign. Aldridge isn't that guy.

[Frank Lee]

yup....$52 million for a sister kiss.

I don't buy into the 'over achieving' argument per say. Players played well because they played with in a system that complimented their strengths. Frye stretched out the lane for Dragic and Bledso. Green got some serious playing time when Bledsoe went down and with the complete green light to shoot. Dragic became the one man fast break. The tempo was ratcheted up a notch. Morris and Morris were good, Tucker was restrained offensively.... Every one contributed. Confidence beamed... Sure, may be they surprised a few teams, but its not like it was a an all out fluke.

Sad thing is, we will never really know as for some reason, McDeals dismantled the squad, signed Thomas to completely change the dynamic to a 3 pg abomination, let frye go trying to replace him with Tolliver, who he let go, let Ish Smith go, marginalized Green, disappointed more than a few players, and had a roster that saw 23 different players get minutes. WTF ???

If it aint broke...... ?

[Raptors-Son]

Come out during the day and go to sleep during the night