NBA introduces "hustle stats" using SportVu data for playoffs.

[165bows]

Single number stats just downgrade the useful of it. Rather that just have the individual breakdowns of each category.

[molepharmer]

Will be interesting to see how much of a correlation there will be with these hustle stats as to being a good defender. Will guys like K Leonard, D Green, A Bradley, T Allen fair well ? Or will it be a completely different group of unexpected players ?

[young_frogger]

What are some of these stats?

It will be a single combined "hustle" number, like PER or something, based on the following elements.

According to the NBA, the following will be counted through a combination of SportVU tracking and video analysis performed at the Secaucus replay center:

Deflections – Defensive player touches the ball on a non-shot attempt
Loose Balls Recovered – Player gains sole possession of a live ball not in the control of either team
Contested 2’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 2 point shot prior to its release
Contested 3’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 3 point shot prior to its release
Charges Drawn – Defensive player draws a charge
Screen Assists – Offensive player sets a screen for a teammate that directly leads to a made field goal by that teammate

The first five were the items tracked at Summer League, while “Screen Assists” are a new category.

Eh, lots of flaws in those. How well will "contested" be tracked? A lot of players just "contest" but not in a way that is enough to possibly disturb the shooter--it's more for show. Also, players who guard players that shoot more often will have more "contested" 2's/3's, but that doesn't mean they hustle more than that they guard volume shooters. Which, though valuable to know, would be better captured by things like defensive rtg and eFG% against. Screen assists...well if you're screening for Curry you'll have a lot of field goals off your screens. If you're screening for a lot of other players...not so much. All of these could be addressed if the stats are normalized in some way, but it doesn't look like they plan to.

Also 'loose balls recovered' sounds super subjective. If a loose ball happens to roll in your direction and you grab it, you didn't necessarily 'hustle' for it IMO

[HialeahHeatFan]

This is dumb, in so many ways....
things I have issues with...that need to be added.
1. As already mentioned raising your hand for the sake of raising does not mean hustle, if you track it so it awards a point after missed FG on a close out with raised hand then yes that's meaningful.
2. Screen setting has multiple facets and very important, simply setting a screen for a good shooter will give you better stats over another player who might be a better screen setter with worse teammates and bad coach will be lower on list. How about tracking it by giving points of a score like it is now, but add a foul shot as a point if the slasher was fouled after on his way to basket coming over the screen to reward screen setters with slashing teammates. Also allow for jockey assist as half point after a well placed screen.
3. If your going to give points for deflections, then boxing out the opponent for team rebound should be added, as well as offensive put backs (not rebounding) tip ins/dunks.
4. Forcing the opponent to pick up their dribble.
5. A functional double team that cause a turnover/steal/opposing calling for timeout
6. Diving for lose ball or jumping out of bounds to grab the 50/50 ball should be double points hence the risk played on the body.

[urgal]

"Charges drawn" seems to be the the only useful one out of those.

[KG_Wolves]

"Charges drawn" seems to be the the only useful one out of those.

I like deflections as well.

I think Rubio would have some good hustle stats

[cpower]

will they introduce stand and watch on defense data?

[DG88]

Really looking forward to this!

[Devilzsidewalk]

What are some of these stats?

It will be a single combined "hustle" number, like PER or something, based on the following elements.

According to the NBA, the following will be counted through a combination of SportVU tracking and video analysis performed at the Secaucus replay center:

Deflections – Defensive player touches the ball on a non-shot attempt
Loose Balls Recovered – Player gains sole possession of a live ball not in the control of either team
Contested 2’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 2 point shot prior to its release
Contested 3’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 3 point shot prior to its release
Charges Drawn – Defensive player draws a charge
Screen Assists – Offensive player sets a screen for a teammate that directly leads to a made field goal by that teammate

The first five were the items tracked at Summer League, while “Screen Assists” are a new category.

Eh, lots of flaws in those. How well will "contested" be tracked? A lot of players just "contest" but not in a way that is enough to possibly disturb the shooter--it's more for show. Also, players who guard players that shoot more often will have more "contested" 2's/3's, but that doesn't mean they hustle more than that they guard volume shooters. Which, though valuable to know, would be better captured by things like defensive rtg and eFG% against. Screen assists...well if you're screening for Curry you'll have a lot of field goals off your screens. If you're screening for a lot of other players...not so much. All of these could be addressed if the stats are normalized in some way, but it doesn't look like they plan to.

they also have stats for what FG% you give up on shots defended though - you pair that with shots defended stats and I think you have a pretty good picture for a good defender

[Tukkerwolf]

It will be a single combined "hustle" number, like PER or something, based on the following elements.

Eh, lots of flaws in those. How well will "contested" be tracked? A lot of players just "contest" but not in a way that is enough to possibly disturb the shooter--it's more for show. Also, players who guard players that shoot more often will have more "contested" 2's/3's, but that doesn't mean they hustle more than that they guard volume shooters. Which, though valuable to know, would be better captured by things like defensive rtg and eFG% against. Screen assists...well if you're screening for Curry you'll have a lot of field goals off your screens. If you're screening for a lot of other players...not so much. All of these could be addressed if the stats are normalized in some way, but it doesn't look like they plan to.

Also 'loose balls recovered' sounds super subjective. If a loose ball happens to roll in your direction and you grab it, you didn't necessarily 'hustle' for it IMO

Just like rebounds? Some are of great use for your team and some just fall in your hands with three team mates standing around as well....

[NBARocks]

This is dumb, in so many ways....
things I have issues with...that need to be added.
1. As already mentioned raising your hand for the sake of raising does not mean hustle, if you track it so it awards a point after missed FG on a close out with raised hand then yes that's meaningful.
2. Screen setting has multiple facets and very important, simply setting a screen for a good shooter will give you better stats over another player who might be a better screen setter with worse teammates and bad coach will be lower on list. How about tracking it by giving points of a score like it is now, but add a foul shot as a point if the slasher was fouled after on his way to basket coming over the screen to reward screen setters with slashing teammates. Also allow for jockey assist as half point after a well placed screen.
3. If your going to give points for deflections, then boxing out the opponent for team rebound should be added, as well as offensive put backs (not rebounding) tip ins/dunks.
4. Forcing the opponent to pick up their dribble.
5. A functional double team that cause a turnover/steal/opposing calling for timeout
6. Diving for lose ball or jumping out of bounds to grab the 50/50 ball should be double points hence the risk played on the body.

i think most of your ideas are already being tracked by various teams with proprietary stats. we just don't know it. iirc, Spoelstra once mentioned how Miami has been tracking a lot of defensive stats they've made up that are not being tracked by the NBA. he mentioned a few, like a defender changing a shot's trajectory, boxing out, deflections leading to steals...

[JellosJigglin]

Seems a weird thing to have a stat for. I really hate how we're trying to quantify every damn movement in basketball. Isn't it obvious when you watch the game which player is hustling more than others? I think it's dumbing down the game to the point where some people don't understand how it's played as well as they think they do.

[ryanpuge]

I have a friend who works for a company that tracks a lot of stats for teams or players.
They are hired by the team directly. He told me that one of the stats that he once worked on was: Curry's TOs when he pass the ball off the dribble using his left hand vs his right hand.

[G35]

Will be interesting to see how much of a correlation there will be with these hustle stats as to being a good defender. Will guys like K Leonard, D Green, A Bradley, T Allen fair well ? Or will it be a completely different group of unexpected players ?

I think this is an overlooked point. With advanced stats there has been a lot of revisionist history and the perceived impact. It is entirely possible this stat will increase the perception of some lesser known players who are able to take "advantage" of the tracking.....

[NBARocks]

Seems a weird thing to have a stat for. I really hate how we're trying to quantify every damn movement in basketball. Isn't it obvious when you watch the game which player is hustling more than others? I think it's dumbing down the game to the point where some people don't understand how it's played as well as they think they do.

that's the point. it isn't actually obvious. otherwise, we wouldn't all have disagreements about who's a good defender and who's not.

science has already proven that the eye can be deceived, and observations are much more prone to biases without facts to base on. it's a natural evolution of the game that those who want better information would want everything that can be quantified, to be quantified.

it's already happened to every company that's ever wanted to be competitive. so i'm sure NBA franchises are just the next to follow the trend.

[ImSlower]

If Draymond sets a screen, and is still setting it two strides away, does he get credit for three non moving screens or just the one?

[PickMeUpASixer]

Seems a weird thing to have a stat for. I really hate how we're trying to quantify every damn movement in basketball. Isn't it obvious when you watch the game which player is hustling more than others? I think it's dumbing down the game to the point where some people don't understand how it's played as well as they think they do.

...good thing we don't have any of that now...

[yosemiteben]

I like it. One of the big differentiators between the college game and the NBA is availability of data, and I tend to think more is always better.

I also think this will help arm agents who rep players who are hustle type role players.

[NZB2323]

What are some of these stats?

It will be a single combined "hustle" number, like PER or something, based on the following elements.

According to the NBA, the following will be counted through a combination of SportVU tracking and video analysis performed at the Secaucus replay center:

Deflections – Defensive player touches the ball on a non-shot attempt
Loose Balls Recovered – Player gains sole possession of a live ball not in the control of either team
Contested 2’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 2 point shot prior to its release
Contested 3’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 3 point shot prior to its release
Charges Drawn – Defensive player draws a charge
Screen Assists – Offensive player sets a screen for a teammate that directly leads to a made field goal by that teammate

The first five were the items tracked at Summer League, while “Screen Assists” are a new category.

Eh, lots of flaws in those. How well will "contested" be tracked? A lot of players just "contest" but not in a way that is enough to possibly disturb the shooter--it's more for show. Also, players who guard players that shoot more often will have more "contested" 2's/3's, but that doesn't mean they hustle more than that they guard volume shooters. Which, though valuable to know, would be better captured by things like defensive rtg and eFG% against. Screen assists...well if you're screening for Curry you'll have a lot of field goals off your screens. If you're screening for a lot of other players...not so much. All of these could be addressed if the stats are normalized in some way, but it doesn't look like they plan to.

A huge reason why the Warriors offense is so good is because of all the screens they set, and your argument applies to passing assists also. John Stockton got to pass the ball to Karl Malone a lot.

[cellar-door]

The single compilation stat is probably useless, but the underlying components are interesting. I hope they release that.