The Rise of the Unicorn - Official KP6 Thread

[ropjhk]

My expectation is to have a Pau Gasol level career, but if everything goes right for him why not be a Dirk level player?

[lilswift01]

Super Dynamic player and i think he can reach Dirk status in terms of impact. The only problem is he will have to compete with Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Town and Joel Embid. There is also other solid bigs like Cousins and Griffin. The 4, 5 position is absolutely stacked for the next decade.

[Johnny Firpo]

Do you understand that Paul Gasol is an HoF who wins basically everything in his career, right?

Yes, and I should have added that he is a top 50 player himself, and better than "consistent All-star", sorry for that.

[tsherkin]

Super Dynamic player and i think he can reach Dirk status in terms of impact. The only problem is he will have to compete with Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Town and Joel Embid. There is also other solid bigs like Cousins and Griffin. The 4, 5 position is absolutely stacked for the next decade.

I think that perhaps less-relevant is his specific ranking. Much more relevant is that he is looking like a player who has strong offensive upside and has some defensive chops as well. He's got a ceiling of some consequence, and a floor of strong value. New York has needed such a player for a while, after years and years of gambles and struggles and management boobery. They need to unwreck themselves defensively, but the season is only so old and they may yet improve on the balance of season remaining.

Various other considerations aside, watching him play, certainly to this point in the season where he's been an efficient 20+ ppg scorer, has been exciting, and the foundation of his game is enough that he'll likely continue to be a strong-value offensive player for the remainder of the year. That's not a trivial thing.

[DanTown8587]

The only difference between Gasol and Dirk is Dirk had the 2011 run and Dirk was a guy who wanted to be a scorer but in terms of skills and production, I don't see a difference between the two. Dirk played with drastically better teammates than Gasol ever did until Gasol got to the Lakers and then low and behold, they played in three straight finals.

I think he has the chance to be that level of player but I also think he could be a better version of Dirk if he uses his size to be a better defender. It will help him that he's going to play in a drastically smaller era than Dirk ever did so he should definitely be a 20-10-2 blocks kind of guy. If they had refrained from giving Lee/Noah all that long term money, I feel like they definitely would have been on Wade and Paul in the summer of 2017 and then you'd really have something in a Paul - Wade - Anthony - KP quad for a year or two.

For the life of me, besides him being done as a player, I can't understand why the Knicks felt they needed or even wanted Noah. It just seems so logical to have KP play the 5 and try and pair him with a 4 who defends the rim (Ibaka?) instead of the other way around.

[Johnny Firpo]

Eh. Doubt it. He was a lazy pile of crap who had one move, the perimeter pump fake, and a nice shot. That dude's ceiling was Keith Van Horn from the start. He was a 7-footer who played SF all through his time in Europe and then came here with BC expecting his quickness to translate meaningfully, and that flopped, particularly given recent trends. That he was an abysmal rebounder and an idiot of a defender did him no favors. I don't think he was derailed much at all. We overutilized him and tried everything in the book to make him look good and it didn't work... because he sucked. It's a little tougher to say because there was some actual talent there, but he would have been far better off going like 23rd in the draft and being used like a Channing Frye or Steve Novak or something.

From a strictly talent standpoint, I was quite high on Bargs, I think he was a fanastic talent. I know you don't think that, but that's okay. What we know for sure, is that greatness wasn't really in him either way, because of his abysmal work ethic.

We should use Jonas more, but what that really means is that we need to be more consistent about making certain kinds of passes to him. The biggest issue we have with him isn't handing him enough isolations, it's Demar and (to a lesser extent) Kyle looking him off when he sets them a screen and bulls to the low paint. They miss him for quick passes and lobs all of the time, and it's a little frustrating. Those are highly effective sets, and we're getting a much worse possession instead.

That's what I implied, he is obviously not Shaq, but he should get the ball more. And yeah, I also agree that it's mainly DeRozan's and Lowry's fault. Jonas is obviously not a first option and never will be, but he should average around 17-18 points, and I think he definitely has that in him, but since he has limitations, he needs to be fed the right way, and that comes down to the coaches and the perimeter players. The opportunities are there, and he could be an excellent third option on offense, and the team would be better for it, but he doesn't get the right touches, and not nearly frequently enough.

[Johnny Firpo]

The only difference between Gasol and Dirk is Dirk had the 2011 run and Dirk was a guy who wanted to be a scorer but in terms of skills and production, I don't see a difference between the two. Dirk played with drastically better teammates than Gasol ever did until Gasol got to the Lakers and then low and behold, they played in three straight finals.

I agreed with many of your points, but this is very far from the truth. Not only was Gasol never a clear-cut first option, Dirk was actually a more efficient first option, than Pau a second option, in most years, and certainly career-wise. That is an enormous difference.

[3Diamantidis]

Do you understand that Paul Gasol is an HoF who wins basically everything in his career, right?

Gasol had the luck to play for a nation with bball tradition. So his success with NT was to be expected.
Porzingis plays for Latvia. That's a very tough mission for him -make Latvia great.
NBA speaking i don't see a reason why he won't be a 2x champion until the end of his carreer.

I expect him to have similar carreer with dirk, pau.
It's not easy to accomplish

[tsherkin]

From a strictly talent standpoint, I was quite high on Bargs, I think he was a fanastic talent. I know you don't think that, but that's okay. What we know for sure, is that greatness wasn't really in him either way, because of his abysmal work ethic.

Talent is somewhat nebulous. He had intriguing shooting ability, and he was quick for his size. He had reasonable strength. He wasn't, however, much of a standout compared to a litany of other prospects of one sort or another, he was just fetishized by Colangelo. He certainly wasn't WITHOUT talent, and if he weren't a lazy idiot, he could have made of himself a rotation player, I'll agree to that. I consider mental makeup to be of critical importance to a player. Kwame Brown should have been a more capable rotation player as well, but he was a frail, broken man with weak instincts. Those, in their way, crippled what was otherwise an impressive (though not ATG) physical talent in a way not too dissimilar to the way Bargs' apathy and lack of awareness on D crippled his ability to be anything more than a Primo punchline.

You don't have to be a genius and you don't have to be an Olympian athlete, but you need given baselines and he didn't have them.

That's what I implied, he is obviously not Shaq, but he should get the ball more. And yeah, I also agree that it's mainly DeRozan's and Lowry's fault. Jonas is obviously not a first option and never will be, but he should average around 17-18 points, and I think he definitely has that in him, but since he has limitations, he needs to be fed the right way, and that comes down to the coaches and the perimeter players. The opportunities are there, and he could be an excellent third option on offense, and the team would be better for it, but he doesn't get the right touches, and not nearly frequently enough.

Yep, that's roughly how I see him as well. He is worth more than we use him for, in short. Not an offensive anchor, but nevertheless a valuable piece.

[lilswift01]

The only difference between Gasol and Dirk is Dirk had the 2011 run and Dirk was a guy who wanted to be a scorer but in terms of skills and production, I don't see a difference between the two. Dirk played with drastically better teammates than Gasol ever did until Gasol got to the Lakers and then low and behold, they played in three straight finals.

I agreed with many of your points, but this is very far from the truth. Not only was Gasol never a clear-cut first option, Dirk was actually a more efficient first option, than Pau a second option, in most years, and certainly career-wise. That is an enormous difference.

Dirk is also super clutch and is an assassin in the 4th quarter. You kind of need those things to be a solid first option. Gasol i think though, is a better number 2 because he can do multiple things at a high level. But if your going to start a team from scratch, i would take Dirk.

[DanTown8587]

The only difference between Gasol and Dirk is Dirk had the 2011 run and Dirk was a guy who wanted to be a scorer but in terms of skills and production, I don't see a difference between the two. Dirk played with drastically better teammates than Gasol ever did until Gasol got to the Lakers and then low and behold, they played in three straight finals.

I agreed with many of your points, but this is very far from the truth. Not only was Gasol never a clear-cut first option, Dirk was actually a more efficient first option, than Pau a second option, in most years, and certainly career-wise. That is an enormous difference.

See, I think Gasol's problem is that he's really a 1B type #1 scorer where as DIrk was a #1A guy. Gasol was the #1 scorer who scored well in both volume and efficiency on those Memphis teams that won 50 games and relied heavily on his production. I have no problem saying that Dirk > Gasol but I don't think their careers are truly that far away from each other. Dirk is probably one of the "worst" best players to ever win a title where as Gasol is a fairly elite #2 in the history of this league.

I will concede that Dirk's 2011 run is something that compares to the true greats of this league. That 39.1 points / 100 on .609 TS% is an all-time great run.

I think they're on different levels but I don't think they're as far as you make it seem. I think Gasol is a to 35ish player where as Dirk is top 15-20. In terms of a players career, there is so very little difference in those two. I think the more apt comparison would be a player like say LaMarcus Aldridge.

[Riko]

Do you understand that Paul Gasol is an HoF who wins basically everything in his career, right?

Gasol had the luck to play for a nation with bball tradition. So his success with NT was to be expected.
Porzingis plays for Latvia. That's a very tough mission for him -make Latvia great.
NBA speaking i don't see a reason why he won't be a 2x champion until the end of his carreer.

I expect him to have similar carreer with dirk, pau.
It's not easy to accomplish

Before Gasol's prime Spain won nothing in own basketball history. Some second or third place but never a win in a major tournment.
I want to make a prediction, after Gasol's retirement Spain won't win anything for the next decade or even more.

NBA speaking Gasol mades 20k points (almost), 10k rebounds, 3,5k assists and 1800 blocks. None of them are easy tasking.

[Dirk]

Do you understand that Paul Gasol is an HoF who wins basically everything in his career, right?

Gasol had the luck to play for a nation with bball tradition. So his success with NT was to be expected.
Porzingis plays for Latvia. That's a very tough mission for him -make Latvia great.
NBA speaking i don't see a reason why he won't be a 2x champion until the end of his carreer.

I expect him to have similar carreer with dirk, pau.
It's not easy to accomplish

Before Gasol's prime Spain won nothing in own basketball history. Some second or third place but never a win in a major tournment.
I want to make a prediction, after Gasol's retirement Spain won't win anything for the next decade or even more.

NBA speaking Gasol mades 20k points (almost), 10k rebounds, 3,5k assists and 1800 blocks. None of them are easy tasking.

Spain had a golden generation... you make it sound like the difference for Spain was simply Gasol.

[Riko]

Spain had a golden generation... you make it sound like the difference for Spain was simply Gasol.

You're right. Spain had a great group of player but the real difference was Paul, like in the last European tournment where he single handedly won the gold.

[Scalabrine]

The only difference between Gasol and Dirk is Dirk had the 2011 run and Dirk was a guy who wanted to be a scorer but in terms of skills and production, I don't see a difference between the two. Dirk played with drastically better teammates than Gasol ever did until Gasol got to the Lakers and then low and behold, they played in three straight finals.

I think he has the chance to be that level of player but I also think he could be a better version of Dirk if he uses his size to be a better defender. It will help him that he's going to play in a drastically smaller era than Dirk ever did so he should definitely be a 20-10-2 blocks kind of guy. If they had refrained from giving Lee/Noah all that long term money, I feel like they definitely would have been on Wade and Paul in the summer of 2017 and then you'd really have something in a Paul - Wade - Anthony - KP quad for a year or two.

For the life of me, besides him being done as a player, I can't understand why the Knicks felt they needed or even wanted Noah. It just seems so logical to have KP play the 5 and try and pair him with a 4 who defends the rim (Ibaka?) instead of the other way around.

Porzingis defends the rim quite well though. He changes dozens of shots per game just by being there. He goes straight up, controls his blocks, and players gravitate towards him on misses to box him out. I think people are really looking past his impact defensively and just loking at his offense. He has all the tools to be on multiple all NBA and all defensive teams.

I didn't expect Noah to be the DPOY that he used to be, and the years on the contract worry me, but the dollar amount is not as crippling to me. He is a winner, a great leader, all his teammates listen to him and feed off his energy. On the court he sets great screens, rolls hard to the basket, is a fantastic passer, hustles for everything. Against some teams he will be extremely valuable and against others he won't be.

It really helps that we have porzingis on a rookie deal and Hernangomez and O'Quinn locked up on very team friendly deals for all but the last year of Noah's deal. The Knicks are one of the lowest ranking teams in terms of dollars spent on their 4/5 and it shouldnt need to change much over the next 4 years to improve. KP and Hernangomez are only getting better.


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[JohnWillow]

Gasol had the luck to play for a nation with bball tradition. So his success with NT was to be expected.
Porzingis plays for Latvia. That's a very tough mission for him -make Latvia great.
NBA speaking i don't see a reason why he won't be a 2x champion until the end of his carreer.

I expect him to have similar carreer with dirk, pau.
It's not easy to accomplish

Before Gasol's prime Spain won nothing in own basketball history. Some second or third place but never a win in a major tournment.
I want to make a prediction, after Gasol's retirement Spain won't win anything for the next decade or even more.

NBA speaking Gasol mades 20k points (almost), 10k rebounds, 3,5k assists and 1800 blocks. None of them are easy tasking.

Spain had a golden generation... you make it sound like the difference for Spain was simply Gasol.

Tbh Latvia national team now has a golden generation, a lot of future NBA players (they already have 2), Euroleague and Eurocup team leaders, will be interesting to see if Porzingis plays in Eurobasket how far they can go.

[NYKHardKnock]

He's going to become a great player, has a great work ethic and personality.

[Zombiesonics]

Best player on the knicks. Still don't buy he is a long term power forward, but most knicks fans seem to be. I also think he is the best shooting big in the league, him and klove really let it fly. Embiid has a really slow release like lopez/cousins/KAT from three.

[Dantares]

Dirk vs pau is an interesting argument. I think pau is a better all around player but dirk is the kind of scorer that can lead a team to a championship, see 2011. But then again you could make the argument that pau was the biggest reason the lakers won the finals in 2010 playing the best on the biggest stage. He probably should have won finals mvp.

If porzingis adds another 5-10 pounds of muscle he will be an absolute monster. His post moves and touch are so good but he is not strong enough to get close to the rim where he can get high percentage shots consistently. When he does that and retains the ability to destroy people on the perimeter he will be a superstar.

[guille_4]

Do you understand that Paul Gasol is an HoF who wins basically everything in his career, right?

Gasol had the luck to play for a nation with bball tradition. So his success with NT was to be expected.
Porzingis plays for Latvia. That's a very tough mission for him -make Latvia great.
NBA speaking i don't see a reason why he won't be a 2x champion until the end of his carreer.

I expect him to have similar carreer with dirk, pau.
It's not easy to accomplish

Spain doesn't have an awful lot of bbal tradition. More than Germany, sure. Tradition, not sure about that. Spain's NT had no success before the Golden Boys lead by Pau Gasol (Juan Carlos Navarro, Felipe Reyes, Jorge Garbajosa, etc.).