Warriors without Steph Curry

[NO-KG-AI]

Why start from 2011? I mean the Dubs and Steph were both irrelevant back then, as in 0% chance at ringing or winning MVP. But I guess the numbers put him in the best light starting from 2011.

Their record w/o Steph is 25-12 since his MVP season. Good enough pace for 2nd in the West this year, exactly where they are.

Lol, don't go raining on the parade now.

[MrCheerios]

There is a real contrast between Lakers fans and GS when they're dominant. Lakers fans generally had the "We're stacked as hell. All you haters are just jealous that you're not us." The more stacked they were the cockier they were. Golden State fans will knock their team down in an attempt to seem less dominant or to make their star players look better. "We're not that good. Klay and Green are just role players. KD didn't break the league. Please don't hate us!"

The fans really do seem to mirror their star players' personalities. Kobe didn't give a damn what other people thought. KD is insecure as hell.

Green is a role player

Even if you think that, he's not a Bruce Bowen type of role player. He's a three-time all star and DPOY. If anyone who isn't a franchise player is a labeled a role player then the term is meaningless. This would be like Suns fans calling Shawn Marion a role player back in the day. "Sure, he averages 22p/12r/2s/1.7b, but he can't create his own shot. See? Just a role player!"

[lakerz12]

There is a real contrast between Lakers fans and GS when they're dominant. Lakers fans generally had the "We're stacked as hell. All you haters are just jealous that you're not us." The more stacked they were the cockier they were. Golden State fans will knock their team down in an attempt to seem less dominant or to make their star players look better. "We're not that good. Klay and Green are just role players. KD didn't break the league. Please don't hate us!"

The fans really do seem to mirror their star players' personalities. Kobe didn't give a damn what other people thought. KD is insecure as hell.

Green is a role player

Even if you think that, he's not a Bruce Bowen type of role player. He's a three-time all star and DPOY. If anyone who isn't a franchise player is a labeled a role player then the term is meaningless. This would be like Suns fans calling Shawn Marion a role player back in the day. "Sure, he averages 22p/12r/2s/1.7b, but he can't create his own shot. See? Just a role player!"

Don't get them started. They literally think having a role makes you a role player. Unless you have "multiple roles", then you are no longer a role player.

[evilpimp972]

There is a real contrast between Lakers fans and GS when they're dominant. Lakers fans generally had the "We're stacked as hell. All you haters are just jealous that you're not us." The more stacked they were the cockier they were. Golden State fans will knock their team down in an attempt to seem less dominant or to make their star players look better. "We're not that good. Klay and Green are just role players. KD didn't break the league. Please don't hate us!"

The fans really do seem to mirror their star players' personalities. Kobe didn't give a damn what other people thought. KD is insecure as hell.

Green is a role player

Even if you think that, he's not a Bruce Bowen type of role player. He's a three-time all star and DPOY. If anyone who isn't a franchise player is a labeled a role player then the term is meaningless. This would be like Suns fans calling Shawn Marion a role player back in the day. "Sure, he averages 22p/12r/2s/1.7b, but he can't create his own shot. See? Just a role player!"

You must not understand what a role player is.
And Shawn Marion was and always was a role player.

Role player isn't negative btw

[ProfessorJM]

Green can be technically be called a role player but he is an All-Star level talent to me so it's kind of important to note he is not your run of the mill role player that comes to mind to a lot of casual fans with that term. I think he is an elite defensive player and would be on any other team, but he fits very well with the team he has now. I think Thompson is the one that would suffer without Curry specifically. Klay is a very good player to me too, but I don't think he is the same player without Curry and would end up being a very good but probably not elite player on his own.

[MrCheerios]

Green is a role player

Even if you think that, he's not a Bruce Bowen type of role player. He's a three-time all star and DPOY. If anyone who isn't a franchise player is a labeled a role player then the term is meaningless. This would be like Suns fans calling Shawn Marion a role player back in the day. "Sure, he averages 22p/12r/2s/1.7b, but he can't create his own shot. See? Just a role player!"

You must not understand what a role player is.
And Shawn Marion was and always was a role player.

Role player isn't negative btw

Lemme guess, a role player plays a role and superstars don't? Or superstars play so many roles that they can't be limited to just one anymore? Or if a player can create their own offense like Lou Williams they're not a role player, but if they can't like Dikembe Mutombo then they are one?

I never said role player was a negative term, only that if you apply it to too many players the term is meaningless. If role player ranges from Steve Kerr and Bruce Bowen to Shawn Marion and Reggie Miller then 90% of the NBA are role players. You might as well just call them players.

[Revived]

Why start from 2011? I mean the Dubs and Steph were both irrelevant back then, as in 0% chance at ringing or winning MVP. But I guess the numbers put him in the best light starting from 2011.

Their record w/o Steph is 25-12 since his MVP season. Good enough pace for 2nd in the West this year, exactly where they are.

Holy crap are they really that good without Curry??

[lakerz12]

Even if you think that, he's not a Bruce Bowen type of role player. He's a three-time all star and DPOY. If anyone who isn't a franchise player is a labeled a role player then the term is meaningless. This would be like Suns fans calling Shawn Marion a role player back in the day. "Sure, he averages 22p/12r/2s/1.7b, but he can't create his own shot. See? Just a role player!"

You must not understand what a role player is.
And Shawn Marion was and always was a role player.

Role player isn't negative btw

Lemme guess, a role player plays a role and superstars don't? Or superstars play so many roles that they can't be limited to just one anymore? Or if a player can create their own offense like Lou Williams they're not a role player, but if they can't like Dikembe Mutombo then they are one?

I never said role player was a negative term, only that if you apply it to too many players the term is meaningless. If role player ranges from Steve Kerr and Bruce Bowen to Shawn Marion and Reggie Miller then 90% of the NBA are role players. You might as well just call them players.

Yeah I think from a common sense perspective, basketball fans have always understood "role players" to be players not as good as "star players".

Usually they are players who come off the bench and only play 20 mins or less. They are hustle players who play good D, rebound, etc. or they are a 3 pt specialist like Steve Kerr.

That is the common sense definition.

And Draymond Green does not fit that definition. He is a DPOY, 3X All-Star, 2 Time All NBA Team, 3X All NBA Defensive Team, NBA Steals Leader (2017).

I don't personally think it's possible for someone to be an All Star and make All NBA teams (signifying he is a top 15 player in the league) and be a role player. Others on this board clearly have a different viewpoint.

Draymond is a star player. And I agree with you that if you extend the meaning of "role player" to star players it is totally diluted and becomes meaningless.

[DoubleLintendre]

Even if you think that, he's not a Bruce Bowen type of role player. He's a three-time all star and DPOY. If anyone who isn't a franchise player is a labeled a role player then the term is meaningless. This would be like Suns fans calling Shawn Marion a role player back in the day. "Sure, he averages 22p/12r/2s/1.7b, but he can't create his own shot. See? Just a role player!"

You must not understand what a role player is.
And Shawn Marion was and always was a role player.

Role player isn't negative btw

Lemme guess, a role player plays a role and superstars don't? Or superstars play so many roles that they can't be limited to just one anymore? Or if a player can create their own offense like Lou Williams they're not a role player, but if they can't like Dikembe Mutombo then they are one?

I never said role player was a negative term, only that if you apply it to too many players the term is meaningless. If role player ranges from Steve Kerr and Bruce Bowen to Shawn Marion and Reggie Miller then 90% of the NBA are role players. You might as well just call them players.

From what I gather that seems to be the argument: players who create their own shot transcend role player status and there is no defensive equivalent. Elite defenders, versatile rebounders, high volume catch and shoot guys, All-Star two way players, etc. don't make the cut.

So yeah, Dikembe and Marion (and Klay/Dray) are now role players...

[Young gun 6]

Outside of this year he has missed like 8-10 regular season games in the last 4 years.. and most of the one's missed this year have had 2 or 3 of Dray, Durant and Klay ALSO out.

More context and detail would be nice when putting the stats out there but it is ESPN after all..

[lakerz12]

You must not understand what a role player is.
And Shawn Marion was and always was a role player.

Role player isn't negative btw

Lemme guess, a role player plays a role and superstars don't? Or superstars play so many roles that they can't be limited to just one anymore? Or if a player can create their own offense like Lou Williams they're not a role player, but if they can't like Dikembe Mutombo then they are one?

I never said role player was a negative term, only that if you apply it to too many players the term is meaningless. If role player ranges from Steve Kerr and Bruce Bowen to Shawn Marion and Reggie Miller then 90% of the NBA are role players. You might as well just call them players.

From what I gather that seems to be the argument: players who create their own shot transcend role player status and there is no defensive equivalent. Elite defenders, versatile rebounders, high volume catch and shoot guys, All-Star two way players, etc. don't make the cut.

So yeah, Dikembe and Marion (and Klay/Dray) are now role players...

But Lou Williams and Nick Young are not? Makes no sense.

Shot creation ability has never been the determinant for whether someone is a role-player. I'm not even a Warriors fan but I can't help but feel like it must be people just wanting to hate on DG and Klay because of the team they play for.

[evilpimp972]

You must not understand what a role player is.
And Shawn Marion was and always was a role player.

Role player isn't negative btw

Lemme guess, a role player plays a role and superstars don't? Or superstars play so many roles that they can't be limited to just one anymore? Or if a player can create their own offense like Lou Williams they're not a role player, but if they can't like Dikembe Mutombo then they are one?

I never said role player was a negative term, only that if you apply it to too many players the term is meaningless. If role player ranges from Steve Kerr and Bruce Bowen to Shawn Marion and Reggie Miller then 90% of the NBA are role players. You might as well just call them players.

Yeah I think from a common sense perspective, basketball fans have always understood "role players" to be players not as good as "star players".

Usually they are players who come off the bench and only play 20 mins or less. They are hustle players who play good D, rebound, etc. or they are a 3 pt specialist like Steve Kerr.

That is the common sense definition.

And Draymond Green does not fit that definition. He is a DPOY, 3X All-Star, 2 Time All NBA Team, 3X All NBA Defensive Team, NBA Steals Leader (2017).

I don't personally think it's possible for someone to be an All Star and make All NBA teams (signifying he is a top 15 player in the league) and be a role player. Others on this board clearly have a different viewpoint.

Draymond is a star player. And I agree with you that if you extend the meaning of "role player" to star players it is totally diluted and becomes meaningless.

I guess Noah was a star then

[lakerz12]

Lemme guess, a role player plays a role and superstars don't? Or superstars play so many roles that they can't be limited to just one anymore? Or if a player can create their own offense like Lou Williams they're not a role player, but if they can't like Dikembe Mutombo then they are one?

I never said role player was a negative term, only that if you apply it to too many players the term is meaningless. If role player ranges from Steve Kerr and Bruce Bowen to Shawn Marion and Reggie Miller then 90% of the NBA are role players. You might as well just call them players.

Yeah I think from a common sense perspective, basketball fans have always understood "role players" to be players not as good as "star players".

Usually they are players who come off the bench and only play 20 mins or less. They are hustle players who play good D, rebound, etc. or they are a 3 pt specialist like Steve Kerr.

That is the common sense definition.

And Draymond Green does not fit that definition. He is a DPOY, 3X All-Star, 2 Time All NBA Team, 3X All NBA Defensive Team, NBA Steals Leader (2017).

I don't personally think it's possible for someone to be an All Star and make All NBA teams (signifying he is a top 15 player in the league) and be a role player. Others on this board clearly have a different viewpoint.

Draymond is a star player. And I agree with you that if you extend the meaning of "role player" to star players it is totally diluted and becomes meaningless.

I guess Noah was a star then

In 2013/14 when he was an All-Star, Defensive Player of the Year, and All-NBA FIRST TEAM?

Yes, he was a star. Is that a serious question? Do you think he was a role player?

[evilpimp972]

Yeah I think from a common sense perspective, basketball fans have always understood "role players" to be players not as good as "star players".

Usually they are players who come off the bench and only play 20 mins or less. They are hustle players who play good D, rebound, etc. or they are a 3 pt specialist like Steve Kerr.

That is the common sense definition.

And Draymond Green does not fit that definition. He is a DPOY, 3X All-Star, 2 Time All NBA Team, 3X All NBA Defensive Team, NBA Steals Leader (2017).

I don't personally think it's possible for someone to be an All Star and make All NBA teams (signifying he is a top 15 player in the league) and be a role player. Others on this board clearly have a different viewpoint.

Draymond is a star player. And I agree with you that if you extend the meaning of "role player" to star players it is totally diluted and becomes meaningless.

I guess Noah was a star then

In 2013/14 when he was an All-Star, Defensive Player of the Year, and All-NBA FIRST TEAM?

Yes, he was a star. Is that a serious question?

I guess we have different opinions about "stars" if you think any player who has ONE great year is one of those. Guess IT is a star too.

And yeah he was a role player, the very definition of it.

[lakerz12]

I guess Noah was a star then

In 2013/14 when he was an All-Star, Defensive Player of the Year, and All-NBA FIRST TEAM?

Yes, he was a star. Is that a serious question?

I guess we have different opinions about "stars" if you think any player who has ONE great year is one of those. Guess IT is a star too.

And yeah he was a role player, the very definition of it.

At the time, during his prime, he was a star. Yes. Obviously. I don't think any sane person would debate that. There were some people who literally thought he was the best or one of the best players in the game at the time.

The player he is now has nothing to do with whether he was a star.

You obviously have your own definition of the term role player. I don't think you can be 2nd best player on your team and be a role player. But I subscribe to the traditional definition, not the 2018 Realgm fantasy definition.

Either way I don't want to derail anymore from the original topic.

I think the Warriors without Steph will be fine. They will get through the first round and could even get through the 2nd round without him. He's just a role player anyways.

[anthony00]

Lemme guess, a role player plays a role and superstars don't? Or superstars play so many roles that they can't be limited to just one anymore? Or if a player can create their own offense like Lou Williams they're not a role player, but if they can't like Dikembe Mutombo then they are one?

I never said role player was a negative term, only that if you apply it to too many players the term is meaningless. If role player ranges from Steve Kerr and Bruce Bowen to Shawn Marion and Reggie Miller then 90% of the NBA are role players. You might as well just call them players.

From what I gather that seems to be the argument: players who create their own shot transcend role player status and there is no defensive equivalent. Elite defenders, versatile rebounders, high volume catch and shoot guys, All-Star two way players, etc. don't make the cut.

So yeah, Dikembe and Marion (and Klay/Dray) are now role players...

But Lou Williams and Nick Young are not? Makes no sense.

Shot creation ability has never been the determinant for whether someone is a role-player. I'm not even a Warriors fan but I can't help but feel like it must be people just wanting to hate on DG and Klay because of the team they play for.

nick young = role player

[taj2133]

There is a real contrast between Lakers fans and GS when they're dominant. Lakers fans generally had the "We're stacked as hell. All you haters are just jealous that you're not us." The more stacked they were the cockier they were. Golden State fans will knock their team down in an attempt to seem less dominant or to make their star players look better. "We're not that good. Klay and Green are just role players. KD didn't break the league. Please don't hate us!"

The fans really do seem to mirror their star players' personalities. Kobe didn't give a damn what other people thought. KD is insecure as hell.

Interesting observation. I'm guessing it could also be a generation difference between the Laker fans of back then during the '00s and the Warrior fans of today that causes them to have a different mindset when it comes to how they react to other fans hating their team.

[lakerz12]

There is a real contrast between Lakers fans and GS when they're dominant. Lakers fans generally had the "We're stacked as hell. All you haters are just jealous that you're not us." The more stacked they were the cockier they were. Golden State fans will knock their team down in an attempt to seem less dominant or to make their star players look better. "We're not that good. Klay and Green are just role players. KD didn't break the league. Please don't hate us!"

The fans really do seem to mirror their star players' personalities. Kobe didn't give a damn what other people thought. KD is insecure as hell.

Interesting observation. I'm guessing it could also be a generation difference between the Laker fans of back then during the '00s and the Warrior fans of today that causes them to have a different mindset when it comes to how they react to other fans hating their team.

Also the obvious difference that the Lakers didn't have a top 3 player come join them just after winning a Title and setting the regular season record.

Maybe GSW fans feel guilty. And KD may as well.

It's like if you use a cheat code in a video game. Victory is not as satisfying.

[zp025]

LMAO @ since 2011 when Curry was injured and GS blatantly tanked to end the season.

LeBron impactful since he turned 18, Curry had to have a system put around him to win.

Curry IS the system.

[xfactor99]

There is a real contrast between Lakers fans and GS when they're dominant. Lakers fans generally had the "We're stacked as hell. All you haters are just jealous that you're not us." The more stacked they were the cockier they were. Golden State fans will knock their team down in an attempt to seem less dominant or to make their star players look better. "We're not that good. Klay and Green are just role players. KD didn't break the league. Please don't hate us!"

The fans really do seem to mirror their star players' personalities. Kobe didn't give a damn what other people thought. KD is insecure as hell.

This is true. I realized that other fans had no patience for Warriors' fans persecution complex after the 15-16 finals, so now I just lean into the Warriors' dominance. No matter how much concern trolling other fans send my way, I simply always say the Warriors are the most stacked team of all time, are going to win the next 4 championships, and Steph is gonna pass Magic as the best PG of all time. Still telling other people the Rockets are a non-threat and the Warriors are gonna kill them in 5 It's more fun that way, but for most long-standing Warriors fans it's a difficult attitude adjustment when we've been rooting for a team that sucked all the way until 2012 lol.