Difference between Kawhi and MJ/Kobe

[Shot Clock]

Kawhi hit a 3, got a rebound, hit a 2, hit another 3, then hit another 2 all in a row

Then he got tired

Kyle and Gasol kept trying to over-force passes to Kawhi the rest of the 4th, reverting to defer-basketball to "hope not to lose" and you want to blame Kawhi for making the proper basketball play off of no set actions and no time out on the last play.


Why is Kyle Lowry spotting up for a 3 pointer when he is only down 1?

I've seen Jordan play enough times, and the Bulls did the same thing. They kept riding Jordan. But Jordan, no matter how tired would have taken the game-winning shot even if there were 3 or 4 defenders in front of him.

I don’t know where you are getting this, there were numerous times that Jordan fed Paxson or Kerr for game winners in key moments.

Kobe was more likely to force a shot, Jordan was more likely to give it up.

[XxIronChainzxX]

I like players who buy into the team concept and trust their teammates. I like when guys play the right way and make the right play. It's a basketball game not an "impress random guy on the internet" contest.

I do too, but not for the last shot to win the game. There's a big difference between the last game-winning shot and all other shots. If Kawhi really had a killer mentality, he would have shot it. But he passed it to VanVleet who was 5 feet behind the 3pt line and heavily guarded by Livingston. So Kawhi shooting over 2 players would have been a much better play.

It would have been a dumb play, and it fails for basically anyone who isn't Michael Jordan (for whom it worked only half the time anyway). You need GOAT level shooting to make that work - and despite how incredibly talented he is Kawhi is not at that level. That's not a flaw in his game - it's the fundamental truth that he is not the GOAT.

Kobe would have taken that shot and probably bricked it.

[tor1234567]

Jordan and Kobe would have pulled up and shot it over the double team on that last play. Jordan and Kobe have that killer instinct in them.

Please don't disrespect Kawhi's name by comparing him to a much inferior player in Kobe.

Without PRIME Shaq and without PRIME Pau & Odom...Prime Kobe Bryant couldn't lead his teams into the playoffs.

A semi-injured Kawhi Leonard is on the verge of taking one of the biggest chokejob teams in NBA history (the Raptors) to a title in his first year with them.

[SSUBluesman]

Jordan and Kobe would have pulled up and shot it over the double team on that last play. Jordan and Kobe have that killer instinct in them.

Please don't disrespect Kawhi's name by comparing him to a much inferior player in Kobe.

Without PRIME Shaq and without PRIME Pau & Odom...Prime Kobe Bryant couldn't lead his teams into the playoffs.

A semi-injured Kawhi Leonard is on the verge of taking one of the biggest chokejob teams in NBA history (the Raptors) to a title in his first year with them.

...Except that he did. They may have lost in the first round, but he still managed to drag a team starting Smush Parker and Kwame Brown into the playoffs.

[Mamba Mentality]

Raps ran the right play and Kawhi made the right read. Had Gasol slipped to the basket he would have had a wide open layup.

[SweetBro]

We really putting Kobe in the same sentence as MJ and Kawhi?

[tor1234567]

We really putting Kobe in the same sentence as MJ and Kawhi?

I think it was a typo.

I think the OP was trying to compare DeRozan to Kobe. Which makes a lot more sense.

[CycklopsGT]

Lebron literally passed the ball in the same situation in game 1 of the finals a year ago. Shooting over two defenders aggressively approaching you in that situation is a bad, low percentage shot. I thought, if anything, Nick Nurse should’ve called a time out and set up a play or an isolation; the Warriors set up their defense pretty well on the fly anyway.

yes, and he got ripped by the media and public for doing so. When you're an elite player, you don't pass up game winning shots.

Watch on YouTube

[Winsome Gerbil]

The difference is that MJ would have closed the deal.

And I'm not being sarcastic. Kawhi, and I suspect all great offensive goto wings in the future, has discovered the same devastating power of the 1 on 1 midrange pullup/post game. It's kind of an ultimate goto guy move because it's very hard for a defense to get extra guys to it without leaving others radically open. And Kawhi does it very well and has had some flat takeover superstar moments with it that have been every bit the equal of previous stars.

But
a) he has it, but can't seemingly call on it at flat will to takeover games the way Jordan did. THat remains the most impressive thing about MJ, the thing younger fans don't get -- he was the ultimate killer. Just every single time you knew he was coming for you, and you STILL couldn't stop it. And he would miss sometimes -- he even had a famous commercial about all the gamewinners he'd missed. But you didn't seem to have much control over that missing. And he responded to the moment like nobody I've ever seen. His obsession with winning and dominance was so extreme you could almost call it a mental illness. He even used his HOF speech as a classless opportunity to stick his junk in the face of everybody who had ever dared get in his way.

b) Kawhi is a shorttimer at this. He actually hasn't had much of a career at this superstar level, and hasn't been the most injury immune guy so its not clear whether he's going to build an enormous legacy or not. In any case though MJ or Kobe didn't build their reps off of a couple good years and one playoffs. They came back again and again and again and again, were in these moments hundreds of times. Kawhi has nowhere near that legacy or experience. Maybe next time he takes it, finds that last burst, gets his own legend. Maybe not.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Lebron literally passed the ball in the same situation in game 1 of the finals a year ago. Shooting over two defenders aggressively approaching you in that situation is a bad, low percentage shot. I thought, if anything, Nick Nurse should’ve called a time out and set up a play or an isolation; the Warriors set up their defense pretty well on the fly anyway.

yes, and he got ripped by the media and public for doing so. When you're an elite player, you don't pass up game winning shots.

Watch on YouTube

Heh -- I remember that Bill Wennington moment of glory. :p

You couldn't stop Bill Wennington, you can only hope to contain him.

[WebEmbiid]

I honestly believe Kawhi has the chance to be better than Kobe, he certainly has the physical and mental attributes of both of them.

You can see that Kawhi is visibly tired having to carry pretty much the entire TOR roster on his shoulders from the start.

[G35]

The biggest difference between MJ and Kobe. MJ would have pulled up, shot over the guy and hit the shot.

Kobe would have taken the shot...and bricked it.

Nice troll. /s

No, the real difference is shot creation and playmaking.

I don’t know if the latter is really Kawhi’s fault as he has operated as a traditional forward his entire career whereas the other two were primary ballhandlers for large stretches of their careers.

Troll post?

Read on Twitter

And here I thought I was actually being kind.

Oh, and here's my favorite example of Kobe's "play-making" and creativity:



Apparently, nobody else on the Lakers was open.....

So what was the difference between Kawhi shooting the shot and what Lowry was able to do?

Everyone automatically group thinks that passing the ball out of the double team was the right thing to do. But that's what the Warriors defense expected to happen and the rotation with Draymond right in Lowry's face and the Raptors get a....what did you call it.....I know Knick fans know....a brick.....

[LivingLegend]

Jordan and Kobe would have pulled up and shot it over the double team on that last play. Jordan and Kobe have that killer instinct in them.

But when Kawhi saw that double team, he immediately passed the ball which ended up in a Lowry side of a backboard 3 pointer. No one is talking about how Kawhi folded like a crane origami because today is all about KD's injury.

If Lebron passed the ball up like Kawhi did, he would have been ripped by the media. Not sure why Kawhi got a pass for being meek.

This is what happens when you have the mamba mentality and force game winners because you want to prove your an alpha male

Read on Twitter

[G35]

I like players who buy into the team concept and trust their teammates. I like when guys play the right way and make the right play. It's a basketball game not an "impress random guy on the internet" contest.

I do too, but not for the last shot to win the game. There's a big difference between the last game-winning shot and all other shots. If Kawhi really had a killer mentality, he would have shot it. But he passed it to VanVleet who was 5 feet behind the 3pt line and heavily guarded by Livingston. So Kawhi shooting over 2 players would have been a much better play.

It would have been a dumb play, and it fails for basically anyone who isn't Michael Jordan (for whom it worked only half the time anyway). You need GOAT level shooting to make that work - and despite how incredibly talented he is Kawhi is not at that level. That's not a flaw in his game - it's the fundamental truth that he is not the GOAT.

Kobe would have taken that shot and probably bricked it.

When did Mike take a 30 foot shot in the playoffs with two guys on him with less than five seconds? I don't recall that.

Didn't Kawhi just make the craziest most improbable shot ever?

That is what makes a superstar a superstar, doing the improbable.

People are so stuck on percentages when that does not work in last second shot scenario's, more echo chambers from those that can't understand the numbers do not dictate outcomes......

[SerialChiller]

Kawhi hit a 3, got a rebound, hit a 2, hit another 3, then hit another 2 all in a row

Then he got tired

Kyle and Gasol kept trying to over-force passes to Kawhi the rest of the 4th, reverting to defer-basketball to "hope not to lose" and you want to blame Kawhi for making the proper basketball play off of no set actions and no time out on the last play.


Why is Kyle Lowry spotting up for a 3 pointer when he is only down 1?

I think he also blocked currys layup in there too.

He came alive and took over the game at the right time. The raps just couldnt hang on. Definitely not his fault. Nurses timeout was the worst culprit i think in the loss.

[TheGOATWill]

The biggest difference between MJ and Kobe. MJ would have pulled up, shot over the guy and hit the shot.

Kobe would have taken the shot...and bricked it.

Nice troll. /s

No, the real difference is shot creation and playmaking.

I don’t know if the latter is really Kawhi’s fault as he has operated as a traditional forward his entire career whereas the other two were primary ballhandlers for large stretches of their careers.

Troll post?

Read on Twitter

And here I thought I was actually being kind.

Oh, and here's my favorite example of Kobe's "play-making" and creativity:



Apparently, nobody else on the Lakers was open.....

I suppose it’s possible Kobe breaking down Pippen and lobbing to Shaq in game 7 of the WCF has been wiped from the internet.

[Jaqua92]

I like players who buy into the team concept and trust their teammates. I like when guys play the right way and make the right play. It's a basketball game not an "impress random guy on the internet" contest.

I like the guy who wins no less than 5 championship.

Kawhi is not yet on Kobe's level and he probably won't ever be. But he's still a fantastic player. I don't understand why people can't accept that

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Lalouie]

Jordan and Kobe would have pulled up and shot it over the double team on that last play. Jordan and Kobe have that killer instinct in them.

But when Kawhi saw that double team, he immediately passed the ball which ended up in a Lowry side of a backboard 3 pointer. No one is talking about how Kawhi folded like a crane origami because today is all about KD's injury.

If Lebron passed the ball up like Kawhi did, he would have been ripped by the media. Not sure why Kawhi got a pass for being meek.

EVERYBODY LOVES KAWHI....that's why.
what's there to hate. he said he doesn't even get trashed talked to.
he doesn't go around calling himself "the king" or g.o.a.t., either

[homecourtloss]

The biggest difference between MJ and Kobe. MJ would have pulled up, shot over the guy and hit the shot.

Kobe would have taken the shot...and bricked it.

Nice troll. /s

No, the real difference is shot creation and playmaking.

I don’t know if the latter is really Kawhi’s fault as he has operated as a traditional forward his entire career whereas the other two were primary ballhandlers for large stretches of their careers.

Troll post?

Read on Twitter

And here I thought I was actually being kind.

Oh, and here's my favorite example of Kobe's "play-making" and creativity:



Apparently, nobody else on the Lakers was open.....

The ridiculous Jordan and Kobe mythologies continuing in the data/internet age baffles me.

[Dnt hate]

Jordan and Kobe would have pulled up and shot it over the double team on that last play. Jordan and Kobe have that killer instinct in them.

But when Kawhi saw that double team, he immediately passed the ball which ended up in a Lowry side of a backboard 3 pointer. No one is talking about how Kawhi folded like a crane origami because today is all about KD's injury.

If Lebron passed the ball up like Kawhi did, he would have been ripped by the media. Not sure why Kawhi got a pass for being meek.

Wtf are u talking about, don't spread fake news, u clearly did watch Jordan and Kobe play if u think they shot all the game winners and made them, lock this thread