Giannis Antetokounmpo's FIBA Stats vs. NBA Stats

[Mirotic12]

Uhh the games are 20% shorter. 40 min vs 48. Seems like that takes care of the difference in his counting stats right there.

Giannis played 32.8 minutes per game in the NBA, in 48 minute games.

if you average that out to a 40 minute game, it comes to,

27.3 minutes per game in a 40 minute game. I'd say he's been playing around 22-25 minutes a game in the friendlies.

Or, just use the Doncic example, since we have the actual minutes per game in EuroLeague and the NBA.


Luka Doncic 2017-18 in EuroLeague:

25.9 minutes per game in 40 minute games

Luka Doncic 2018-19 in NBA:

32.2 minutes in 48 minute games

If you average out 25.9 minutes in a 40 minute game, to 48 minutes, it comes to 31.1 minutes per game. So, Luka Doncic would have had 31.1 minutes per game if the EuroLeague was playing with 48 minutes.

So somehow that extra 6 minutes per game in the NBA led to these numbers differences:

EuroLeague:

16.0 points
4.8 rebounds
4.3 assists

NBA:

21.2 points
7.8 rebounds
6.0 assists

We are supposed to believe that's because of an extra 6 minutes of playing time? So 5 more points, 3 more rebounds, and 2 more assists just because he got 6 more minutes of playing time? Just because the overall total length of an NBA game is 8 minutes longer?

I don't think any objective basketball fan really believes that.

[rale93lfc]

NBA court is also little bigger. FIBA (28x15m) NBA (28.7m x 15.2). Almost 1m seems not too much, but for some athletic players its enough to dribble past defender.

But the main factor is difference in defensive rules between FIBA and NBA.

[Ferulci]

If you include minutes/possessions, you’d make a more compelling argument. I’m going to guess that it didnt support your argument and you intentionally omitted them.

This.
During Game 4: 16 points and 10 rebounds against Italy, he played 19 minutes (source : https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/919917/giannis-greece-stroll-past-italy/ )
And Game 7, he played 22 minutes.
So the stats are very impressive and I am under the impression that if you adjusted to possessions or looked and usage rate, it would look even better.

[Johnny Bball]

There is more talent in the NBA period. There is no argument to change that.

[Ecmic]

Inflated? What's the baseline? A subjective opinion of how the game "should" be played?

[sunsbg]

Inflated? What's the baseline? A subjective opinion of how the game "should" be played?

It will be strange if they are not. NBA is a business. Basketball is a business in other leagues, but to a lesser extend.

Inflated in the sense that rules are promoted intentionally to increase scoring. In general the other leagues are more conservative to accept new rules.

[Calvin Klein]

Inflated? What's the baseline? A subjective opinion of how the game "should" be played?

Assists are definitely inflated. Almost half of NBA assists wouldn't count in FIBA.

And lately, the NBA has definitely changed the rules to increase scoring/numbers in general, so they have more content and stupid records to break every week. This is quite obvious.

[og15]

Without any sort of per minute or per possession stat, it's hard to compare. Also since it is preparation games, that has to be taken into account too, as it is like using pre-season stats to make a point.

I'm aware OP that you have a Euro/FIBA bias, and that you are always trying to how it is equivalent or whatever, but not sure this is a very good example.

[mademan]

If you want a serious convo, at least provide minutes for those stats.

As is, this is just an agenda filled thread with cherry picked numbers. I'd also imagine that most players pre-season numbers in the NBA is far worse than their regular numbers. Are RS numbers inflated compared to pre-season?

[og15]

Uhh the games are 20% shorter. 40 min vs 48. Seems like that takes care of the difference in his counting stats right there.

Giannis played 32.8 minutes per game in the NBA, in 48 minute games.

if you average that out to a 40 minute game, it comes to,

27.3 minutes per game in a 40 minute game. I'd say he's been playing around 22-25 minutes a game in the friendlies.

Or, just use the Doncic example, since we have the actual minutes per game in EuroLeague and the NBA.


Luka Doncic 2017-18 in EuroLeague:

25.9 minutes per game in 40 minute games

Luka Doncic 2018-19 in NBA:

32.2 minutes in 48 minute games

If you average out 25.9 minutes in a 40 minute game, to 48 minutes, it comes to 31.1 minutes per game. So, Luka Doncic would have had 31.1 minutes per game if the EuroLeague was playing with 48 minutes.

So somehow that extra 6 minutes per game in the NBA led to these numbers differences:

EuroLeague:

16.0 points
4.8 rebounds
4.3 assists

NBA:

21.2 points
7.8 rebounds
6.0 assists

We are supposed to believe that's because of an extra 6 minutes of playing time? So 5 more points, 3 more rebounds, and 2 more assists just because he got 6 more minutes of playing time? Just because the overall total length of an NBA game is 8 minutes longer?

I don't think any objective basketball fan really believes that.

Well you also have pace. Ignoring pace though, if you do his Euro league stats per 32.2 minutes, you get:

19.9 pts, 6.0 rebs, 5.3 rebs

If you add the difference in pace and him having an extra year of experience, there's not much difference from 20/6/5 and 21/8/6

Playing 6 more minutes from 26 minutes does make a pretty big difference, that's like a bit over 20% increase in time, so it would be a bit over 20% increase in production assuming everything else is the same (playstyle, pace, etc).

[Clyde Frazier]

...Seriously? It's a 40 minute game and it's a completely different format. Gotta love that massive sample size, too. I'm all for Euroleague getting more recognition as the second best league in the world, but these reaches aren't the way to do it.

[UcanUwill]

The only really inflated stat in the nba is assists. Box scores will give you assist for anything.

[TheDiesel36]

The difference is the assist, in the NBA, you can make a pass to a guy, who takes two dribbles and shoots a contested fade and STILL get rewarded with the assist. Also defensive rebounds arent quite as cheap since not everyone bails on the offensive glass, as is the case in the NBA.

[og15]

For Giannis, 18.7 points and 6.6 rebounds in about lets say 23 minutes will equal to 26.7 pts, 9.4 rebs in 32.8 mins.

So again, not much difference if you account for pace, and for him playing next to Brook Lopez who boxes out but doesn't grab a ton of rebounds himself.

[draftnightsuit]

Michael Jordan averaged 16 PPG during his Olympic career, as opposed to 30 PPG during his NBA career.

It’s obvious that MJ’s NBA stats were inflated.

[Wooderson]

2018-19 NBA MVP Giannis Antetkounmpo's averages in the 2018-19 NBA regular season:

27.7 points per game
12.5 rebounds per game

and his stats in the 2019 NBA playoffs (where NBA teams supposedly play "real defense"):

25.5 points per game
12.3 rebounds per game

Spoiler:

Giannis Antetokounmpo's stats so far in Greece's 2019 FIBA World Cup preparation (7 games so far):

Game 1: 19 points and 11 rebounds against Hungary (very weak opponent)

Game 2: 19 points and 8 rebounds against Iran (very weak opponent)

Game 3: 18 points and 8 rebounds against Turkey

Game 4: 16 points and 10 rebounds against Italy (minus its NBA players)

Game 5: 20 points and 1 rebound against Serbia (minus Nikola Jokic)

Game 6: 13 points and 4 rebounds against Jordan (very weak opponent)

Game 7: 26 points and 4 rebounds against Dominican Republic (minus their NBA players - very weak opponent)

averages so far (7 games):

18.7 points per game
6.6 rebounds per game

After looking through recaps for each game Giannis averaged only 22 MPG in those 7 games.

Adjust those 22 MPG to 32.8 (Giannis MPG last year) and his averages are 27.8/11.6. Couldn't find shooting stats for every game but his efficiency was very likely much higher.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

If you include minutes/possessions, you’d make a more compelling argument. I’m going to guess that it didnt support your argument and you intentionally omitted them.

This.
During Game 4: 16 points and 10 rebounds against Italy, he played 19 minutes (source : https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/919917/giannis-greece-stroll-past-italy/ )
And Game 7, he played 22 minutes.
So the stats are very impressive and I am under the impression that if you adjusted to possessions or looked and usage rate, it would look even better.

Thanks I was looking a bit more for his minute stats or his game by game stats. I imagine it would make mirotic look stupid or like he's trolling or whatever. Still those are two games out of 7 and there are less minutes per game so....

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Giannis averaged only 22 MPG in those 7 games.

Mirotic threads man. THOSE THREADS HE STARTS.

[draftnightsuit]

Whatever point you’re trying to make, OP, “inflated” isn’t the right term. Inflating is artificially supporting something so it’s larger than it should be, and I doubt you’re arguing that the NBA is faking or padding Giannis stats. What exactly are you levying, what’s the criticism here?

Also I don’t think anyone credible has ever claimed that players would average 50/30 or other wild stats in Euro play, it’s well known that the per game stat averages are generally lower in those leagues (Chinese leagues are a different story). Might be arguing with a ghost here.

I implied just that a few posts above.

When I started watching NBA it was considered a tougher league than EU leagues, now I was listening to Colangelo during USA vs Spain friendly explaining how other teams play more physical.

Nemanja Bjelica was MVP of Euroleague.

That’s why he came to the NBA and became a superstar. Because, you know, Euroleague is tougher than the NBA.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Michael Jordan only averaged 15 ppg in the 1992 Olympics. OP might be on t̶o̶ something.