Kobe's statistical shortcomings

[triple_threat]

Kind of lazy to only look at raw career average especially for kobe since he didn't hit his prime till year 5\6

And last 3 years were horrific

His averages we're close to 29/6/5 45%fg 33%3fg
85% ft (from memory) at his peak
01-13

Years 1 -4 and the last 3 years form part of the assessment

I don't see how you'd judge a player post torn Achilles or when they were 17 and playing 15mpg as part of who they were as a player

I didn't know a player can be 17 for 4 years.

In addition, kobe played 107 games post achilles tear.

Nice try on both points.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Another shortcoming is Pau Gasol outplayed him in the 2010 finals and had to save Kobe in game 7. Kobe was doing his best Westbrook chucking impression in game7 finals 2010 and Gasol saved his ass. A guy like 2019 Leonard, nobody on his team came close to outplaying him in a series. Kobe was outplayed by his teammates Gasol in probably the most important and challenging series of his career (2010 finals).

[dhsilv2]

In the context of a GOAT debate, can Kobe even be considered in light of the following statistical shortcomings:

1. 2000 nba finals - 16 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG%, 33/90

2. 2004 nba finals - 22 PPG, 3 RPG, 4 APG, .6 BPG, 43/113 38% FG

3. 2008 nba finals - 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG, 53/131 40% FG.

4. Game winners in last 5 seconds of a playoff game - 8/27

5. Career fg - 44.7. Career high fg single season 46.7

6. Career 3fg 32.7 on 4.1 attempts

7. Excluding his rookie season, seasons of 15/3/2.5, 42.8 fg, and 20/5/4

8. 6 years in playoffs shooting 43 fg or worse

There are stats that clearly put Kobe out of the GOAT or even top 5 discussion. Not a single one of these is however.

[Heat4lyf]

Years 1 -4 and the last 3 years form part of the assessment

I don't see how you'd judge a player post torn Achilles or when they were 17 and playing 15mpg as part of who they were as a player

I didn't know a player can be 17 for 4 years.

In addition, kobe played 107 games post achilles tear.

Nice try on both points.

His first 202 games he wasn't a 20ppg scorer and last 107 games was horrendous due to injury and age so 309 games out of 1346 is pretty significant why discredit his superstar years because he was a late bloomer and because he played hobbled end of career.

That would skew the numbers significantly

Kobe his prime from 00-13 was good for 28/6/5
On above average efficiency that's Kobe. judge him accordingly

[triple_threat]

I don't see how you'd judge a player post torn Achilles or when they were 17 and playing 15mpg as part of who they were as a player

I didn't know a player can be 17 for 4 years.

In addition, kobe played 107 games post achilles tear.

Nice try on both points.

His first 202 games he wasn't a 20ppg scorer and last 107 games was horrendous due to injury and age so 309 games out of 1346 is pretty significant why discredit his superstar years because he was a late bloomer and because he played hobbled end of career.

That would skew the numbers significantly

Kobe his prime from 00-13 was good for 28/6/5
On above average efficiency that's Kobe. judge him accordingly

Being a late bloomer should be held against a goat candidate.

Do u think jordana wizards years or karl malones (who isnt in the goat convo) late years, Shaqs journeymen late years, Duncans twilight dont hurt their averages. The list.goes on. If you want to cherry pick kobes numbers you should recreate all stats.

[homecourtloss]

"LeBron better."

Why is this in quotes?

[Heat4lyf]

I didn't know a player can be 17 for 4 years.

In addition, kobe played 107 games post achilles tear.

Nice try on both points.

His first 202 games he wasn't a 20ppg scorer and last 107 games was horrendous due to injury and age so 309 games out of 1346 is pretty significant why discredit his superstar years because he was a late bloomer and because he played hobbled end of career.

That would skew the numbers significantly

Kobe his prime from 00-13 was good for 28/6/5
On above average efficiency that's Kobe. judge him accordingly

Being a late bloomer should be held against a goat candidate.

Do u think jordana wizards years or karl malones (who isnt in the goat convo) late years, Shaqs journeymen late years, Duncans twilight dont hurt their averages. The list.goes on. If you want to cherry pick kobes numbers you should recreate all stats.

Go up I explained we need to evaluate players contextually. Using Jordan as an example.

That's why raw numbers for all players is lazy analysis

[dhsilv2]

I didn't know a player can be 17 for 4 years.

In addition, kobe played 107 games post achilles tear.

Nice try on both points.

His first 202 games he wasn't a 20ppg scorer and last 107 games was horrendous due to injury and age so 309 games out of 1346 is pretty significant why discredit his superstar years because he was a late bloomer and because he played hobbled end of career.

That would skew the numbers significantly

Kobe his prime from 00-13 was good for 28/6/5
On above average efficiency that's Kobe. judge him accordingly

Being a late bloomer should be held against a goat candidate.

Do u think jordana wizards years or karl malones (who isnt in the goat convo) late years, Shaqs journeymen late years, Duncans twilight dont hurt their averages. The list.goes on. If you want to cherry pick kobes numbers you should recreate all stats.

Nobody uses career averages today. Most are cumulative...you're looking at stats people stopped using seriously 20 years ago.

[Lalouie]

In the context of a GOAT debate, can Kobe even be considered in light of the following statistical shortcomings:

1. 2000 nba finals - 16 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG%, 33/90

2. 2004 nba finals - 22 PPG, 3 RPG, 4 APG, .6 BPG, 43/113 38% FG

3. 2008 nba finals - 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG, 53/131 40% FG.

4. Game winners in last 5 seconds of a playoff game - 8/27

5. Career fg - 44.7. Career high fg single season 46.7

6. Career 3fg 32.7 on 4.1 attempts

7. Excluding his rookie season, seasons of 15/3/2.5, 42.8 fg, and 20/5/4

8. 6 years in playoffs shooting 43 fg or worse

but he's not in the goat debate. he will always be behind mj because he is viewed as a poor man's mj clone. he would have to have far exceeded mj or been a different kind of player altogether

[Gooner]

I guess we needed a Kobe slander thread before the season started. And no, I don't consider Kobe in the GOAT discussion, I am a rational human being.

then you are not a rational human being..

No, i'm thinking I am.

That's because you are irrational.

[Gooner]

I’ve pulled back the reigns on Kobe hating after it became so trendy, but the fact remains that he simply doesn’t belong in the GOAT conversation. Even if you’re a sucker for “mamba mentality”, volume scoring and championship success, he’s clearly a worse player than MJ.

He is, but so is everybody else really.

[Gooner]

I always enjoy people referencing Kobe's finals series against by far the two best defensive teams in NBA history.

I guess thats one way to eliminate him from a GOAT debate he was never in in the first place.

Funny thing is, Dirk shot 41% against Miami in the 2011 finals, and that's considered as one of the best performances. Shooting percentage can be very misleading, especially on a small sample size.

[sigueina]

1. 2000 nba finals - 16 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG%, 33/90 - Come on he just played 8 min in game 2 because of injury and that hurt his stats. He Save the Lakers in game 4 with Shaq out.

2. 2004 nba finals - 22 PPG, 3 RPG, 4 APG, .6 BPG, 43/113 38% FG - This was just a low scoring ugly series but yes Kobe did not play well.

3. 2008 nba finals - 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG, 53/131 40% FG. - This was a solid series for Kobe but again it was low scoring series with Teams avg ugly 44% FG

4. Game winners in last 5 seconds of a playoff game - 8/27 - Not great but com one he have cracy many clutch moments in 4Q in playoffs.



Lets look at Kobe stats from 20-34 years old. No rookie year where he was a 18 years old playing 15 min a game and no post achilles injury( when he was never the same)
27,4 pts, 5,7 reb, 5,1 ast 46% FG 33% 3pt and 84% FT

Playoffs
27,5 pts, 5,4 reb, 5,1 ast, 45% FG 34% 3pt and 82% FT

Not bad.

[Gooner]

1. 2000 nba finals - 16 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG%, 33/90 - Come on he just played 8 min in game 2 because of injury and that hurt his stats. He Save the Lakers in game 4 with Shaq out.

2. 2004 nba finals - 22 PPG, 3 RPG, 4 APG, .6 BPG, 43/113 38% FG - This was just a low scoring ugly series but yes Kobe did not play well.

3. 2008 nba finals - 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG, 53/131 40% FG. - This was a solid series for Kobe but again it was low scoring series with Teams avg ugly 44% FG

4. Game winners in last 5 seconds of a playoff game - 8/27 - Not great but com one he have cracy many clutch moments in 4Q in playoffs.



Lets look at Kobe stats from 20-34 years old. No rookie year where he was a 18 years old playing 15 min a game and no post achilles injury( when he was never the same)
27,4 pts, 5,7 reb, 5,1 ast 46% FG 33% 3pt and 84% FT

Playoffs
27,5 pts, 5,4 reb, 5,1 ast, 45% FG 34% 3pt and 82% FT

Not bad.

Not bad at all. 45-46 percent is quite efficeint for someone who is agressive like him. 5 assists is a lot for somene who "doesn't pass".

[picc]

I always enjoy people referencing Kobe's finals series against by far the two best defensive teams in NBA history.

I guess thats one way to eliminate him from a GOAT debate he was never in in the first place.

Funny thing is, Dirk shot 41% against Miami in the 2011 finals, and that's considered as one of the best performances. Shooting percentage can be very misleading, especially on a small sample size.

There's nothing misleading about Kobe's percentages in the 04 and 08 finals. He shot the ball like **** in both, and how clutch can you have been in 1-4 and 2-4 losses. Of course, no one mentions how great he was defensively in both those series, because the decisive losses render it inconsequential, and we judge mainly by offense if you underperformed enough on that end.

But when the two best defensive teams in history are selling out on making you shoot poorly, you shooting poorly shouldn't exactly be a shock to anyone. And yet it appears it still is.

[teeozz]

Which other NBA player receives more hate than Kobe Bryant?

[LipSkinMatter]

Which other NBA player receives more hate than Kobe Bryant?

Saying somebody isn't the greatest player in NBA history = hate.

[Dajadeed]

LeBron stans have really shifted the convo to stats instead of results.

Lol @ those who don’t even want to admit Kobe was top 10... ha ha ha

[karkinos]

regardless of his stats or hero ball style, when it comes to individual skill and technical mastery, there is nobody better other than jordan.

[Nazrmohamed]

Kind of lazy to only look at raw career average especially for kobe since he didn't hit his prime till year 5\6

And last 3 years were horrific

His averages we're close to 29/6/5 45%fg 33%3fg
85% ft (from memory) at his peak
01-13

Years 1 -4 and the last 3 years form part of the assessment

I don't see how you'd judge a player post torn Achilles or when they were 17 and playing 15mpg as part of who they were as a player.

I wouldn't look at Jordan with the wizards if I'm trying to get a picture of how great Jordan was and when he was great

Lebrons greatness doesn't begin at his rookie year we see how good he is in his sophomore year

Doing the whole career just doesn't properly encapsulate a players greatness

I'd agree with you but problem is Jordan was awesome in his first few years statistically. And was better on the Wizards than Kobe was in his last 3 yrs........but we're talking about Jordan here which bodes well for any player if that's what were comparing you to