Len Bias

[Ryoga Hibiki]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Yeah, let's overlook the fact that Brad Daughtery was a five-time all-star before back injuries ended his career at age 28. Or that teams historically choose a talented center over an equally talented (or even slightly more talented) wing player, all things considered. Just two years previously, Michael Jordan went third in his draft.

I also don't know how it is an indictment against Len Bias that Philadelphia 76ers general manager Pat Williams not only traded the No. 1 overall pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Roy Hinson and cash but traded Moses Malone, Terry Catledge and two first-round draft picks to the Washington Bullets for Jeff Ruland and Cliff Robinson on the same day (three days later, Williams left the 76ers to become the head of the group that founded the Orlando Magic).

Yes, and he surprised everybody becoming what he was.
How many players were considered HOFers before stepping a foot in the NBA? All of them were #1 picks.
Many more overcame expectations, but here people are selling Bias as an all time great based on his college career, and I'm not buying it.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

It's been stated some didn't see Bilas coming into the league as a big time scorer, but look at AD. Who thought AD was going to come into the league and become the offensive player he became? During draft time he was getting "a better Marcus Camby" comparisons.

Lmao. No one is shocked by what AD has done

Davis was not projected to become such a good offensive player, actually, but rather a transcendent defensive one

[Najee12]

How many players were considered HOFers before stepping a foot in the NBA? All of them were #1 picks.
Many more overcame expectations, but here people are selling Bias as an all time great based on his college career, and I'm not buying it.

The 1986 draft was considered a potentially great draft for its depth of big men prospects (Brad Daughterty, Chris Washburn, Roy Tarpley, William Bedford, John Salley). Len Bias was considered the best wing player in the draft and the player with potentially the highest ceiling. I would understand your logic if Bias went, say, 10th, but he went second in what was considered a draft highlighted by big men.

Being someone who was around during that time (I was in college and followed college basketball regularly, including watching Bias' and Daughtery's collegiate careers growing up in ACC country), people projected that Bias would be an even more effective player in the NBA in time. Being drafted by Boston, Bias would have had a similar transition a la James Worthy with the Lakers -- a top pick initially playing behind a hall of famer on a team that just won a championship, eventually groomed to be the successor on his way to being a perennial all-star himself.

Bias not going No. 1 is not an indictment on him, regarding his perceived potential. Historically, if there are centers with similar upside to guards and forwards, teams will choose the center. Also, it was apparent that Pat Williams was trying to sabotage the Philadelphia 76ers with his trades before he left, so he clearly did not care who was the No. 1 pick.

[dacrusha]

It's been stated some didn't see Bilas coming into the league as a big time scorer, but look at AD. Who thought AD was going to come into the league and become the offensive player he became? During draft time he was getting "a better Marcus Camby" comparisons.

Lmao. No one is shocked by what AD has done

Davis was not projected to become such a good offensive player, actually, but rather a transcendent defensive one

Yup, AD becoming the dominant force he has become was a huge surprise.

He was projected as the next Marcus Camby; good but not great.

[Nazrmohamed]

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis vs Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Would've been fun to watch.

Its hard to say cuz I'm sure if we were on a Celtics forum we'd have to take the conversation even further

- the Celtics were dominant without those two so how would that have played out with them present. Who of the Celtics we knew wouldn't have played?
- who would be the starting 5 in the 80s. Who gets benched
- what would thier play style look like
- who's the star and who defers?


It's a great problem to have for any coach I'm sure to have all that talent but these questions must be answered.
From afar I don't see how he could've ever come close to Jordan simply because Jordan had a team built around him while on the Celtics he wouldve had to fit in with so many all time greats. They probably would've run the table on the 80s and early 90s but we mightve not appreciated his individual accomplishments as much.

[jwise44]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Fortunately nothing bad happened to DeShawn Stevenson

Because no HOFers were ever picked after pick number 1

[Ambrose]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Fortunately nothing bad happened to DeShawn Stevenson

Because no HOFers were ever picked after pick number 1

That's not the argument he's making.

[hoosierdaddy34]

No idea really. Yes he had shown a lot of talent and ability, but so did a lot of dudes that ended up busts. Did he show more talent than Michael Beasley did? He could have been one of the greats or he could have flamed out, actually getting on a nba court night in and night out is another animal. Until a dude actually does it and produces at a high level, you just don’t know. One thing we do know that separates players in the NBA is a desire to be great, a focus on that goal and the willingness to sacrifice to work to get there. Did Bias have that in him? I think, given how tragically things ended up, it’s fair to question whether he had that drive to truly be great.

[hoosierdaddy34]

Lmao. No one is shocked by what AD has done

Davis was not projected to become such a good offensive player, actually, but rather a transcendent defensive one

Yup, AD becoming the dominant force he has become was a huge surprise.

He was projected as the next Marcus Camby; good but not great.

That’s not true at all. If you remember going back to that draft, AD was considered the best draft prospect since LeBron. AD had all the hype around him at that point.

[tondi123]

He had the natural ability to become an all time great but all great players must develop way beyond where they are when they enter the league. Would that have happened if he hadnt ODed? Who knows.

[3on3champ]

Len Bias would have been an incredible player. Jerome Williams on Champions Basketball Network said that he looked up to Len Bias growing up in the Washington DC area and inspired the JunkYard Dog himself to improve on his athletic ability.

[LakerLegend]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Fortunately nothing bad happened to DeShawn Stevenson

Jordan didn't go #1 either.

[Capn'O]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Yeah, let's overlook the fact that Brad Daughtery was a five-time all-star before back injuries ended his career at age 28. Or that teams historically choose a talented center over an equally talented (or even slightly more talented) wing player, all things considered. Just two years previously, Michael Jordan went third in his draft.

I also don't know how it is an indictment against Len Bias that Philadelphia 76ers general manager Pat Williams not only traded the No. 1 overall pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Roy Hinson and cash but traded Moses Malone, Terry Catledge and two first-round draft picks to the Washington Bullets for Jeff Ruland and Cliff Robinson on the same day (three days later, Williams left the 76ers to become the head of the group that founded the Orlando Magic).

Yeah. Daugherty was really good.

[Goudelock]

Watch on YouTube

If I had a dollar for every time someone commented on this video and said something like "He would have been better than LeBron or Jordan", I would have a million dollars. As the person who made that video, I just want to say that nothing I saw in those games made me think I was watching the future GOAT. He was pretty much looking like he might be Bernard King 2.0. Which is still a great player, but not the god-tier destroyer of worlds people think he was in college.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis vs Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Would've been fun to watch.

Its hard to say cuz I'm sure if we were on a Celtics forum we'd have to take the conversation even further

- the Celtics were dominant without those two so how would that have played out with them present. Who of the Celtics we knew wouldn't have played?
- who would be the starting 5 in the 80s. Who gets benched
- what would thier play style look like
- who's the star and who defers?


It's a great problem to have for any coach I'm sure to have all that talent but these questions must be answered.
From afar I don't see how he could've ever come close to Jordan simply because Jordan had a team built around him while on the Celtics he wouldve had to fit in with so many all time greats. They probably would've run the table on the 80s and early 90s but we mightve not appreciated his individual accomplishments as much.

Based on Larry Bird's book, the plan was that they would groom Bias to be the next franchise player, and that Larry would have retired after a 1988 or 1989 title, going out on top like Bill Russell did. Bird was so excited about Bias that he promised Red he would take time out of his offseason and work with him during rookie camp.

And again, this was from Bird's autobiography from the early 90s - he described Bias as a player who was athletic like Jordan, but played with the aggression of Barkley. I can't make an accurate assessment since I never saw the guy play, and all I have are youtube clips. But if guys like Bird and Coach K are vouching for him, then it's just a huge what-if scenario.

The Celtics were thin in the frontcourt in 86-87, with Walton missing essentially the whole season. Bias could have easily stepped in played the 3/4 spots off the bench. Celtics probably go on and win the title in '87, because Bird and McHale don't destroy their bodies playing +40 mpg during the regular season (McHale basically ruined his career while playing on a broken foot during the Finals that year. He is STILL limping, to this day, because of that injury).

It's a damn shame. I think of Len every time I do coke.

[Johnlac1]

Len Bias was a mix of Jordan and Dominique Wilkins. He would have been a force in the NBA especially on a Celtics roster where he would have learned winning habits, championship habits from Bird and company.

The combination of Bias's death and Bird's back problems cost the Celtics two or maybe three titles.
The Celtics lacked the overall athleticism of the Lakers. Bias would have made up for that giving the Celtics not only scoring punch off the bench but relief for Bird and McHale as far as minutes. Bias could spell Bird at small forward, and when McHale went to the bench, Bird could slide over to pf his natural position.
Twas not to be.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Fortunately nothing bad happened to DeShawn Stevenson

Jordan didn't go #1 either.

And he was not projected to be the player he became

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[LakerLegend]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Fortunately nothing bad happened to DeShawn Stevenson

Jordan didn't go #1 either.

And he was not projected to be the player he became

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

Not what he became but people were running around saying things like he’s dr j with a jumpshot, Bobby knight saying he’s the best player he’s ever seen etc. so there was hype.

[LakerLegend]

Watch on YouTube

[PistolPeteJR]

As soon as I saw this thread resurface I knew someone had posted Jimmy’s video lol.