What Would Peak Ray Allen's Stats Look Like Today?

[Pelly24]

I'm not really sure what numbers he'd put up. We're in a more three-point friendly era, but he was already shooting the way people are basically, and he peaked at 26.4 ppg in like 40 minutes per game. But more perimeter friendly rules, etc. I'd guess 28/5/5 on 64 TS% would be in play, give or take a point, assist or rebound. The situation is he's got a Harrison Barnes-level wing and a Norman Powell-esque 2nd option scorer.

[Big J]

Put it this way, Allen would be a more valuable player than Kobe in today’s game.

[Bmaasse]

Put it this way, Allen would be a more valuable player than Kobe in today’s game.

Never. Mamba had a completely different mentality than Ray Allen. Ray was a good shooter who took care of his body that allowed him to extend his career so he could be the 3rd/4th option on a couple of stacked teams.

Please stop overrating this man.

[Dmagic]

He'd probably be putting up around 28-30 points a game. Would likely be a bit over 30 at his peak. If you look at his career averages and compare them to similar players today, he would would likely be doubling the amount of three-pointers he took. Add that to the weak defense in today's league and you have Bradley Beal numbers.

but more dominant as a team leader like giannis

[Strepbacter]

Put it this way, Allen would be a more valuable player than Kobe in today’s game.

Yeah, right. Prime Kobe would be easily superior on both ends of the court... just like he was in the 00's.

[Monky15]

His efficiency would be the biggest beneficiary followed by it being easier to get to the line today because of more spacing and less "bigs" on the court. So no reason he couldn't get up to 30ppg in todays NBA with higher shooting %'s and more FTA's.

[leolozon]

Didn't you get the memo? Every star in the history of the NBA would average 30ppg, when it's not 35 or 40ppg.

Lol, I know you are trying to be funny but a lot of older stars would truly see an explosion in their numbers. The game is extremely different from how it used be played. It's played faster, it's perimeter oriented and more emphasis on the 3 point shot. Just on those facts alone and without naming other factors should tell you older players would avg more. Back in the 90s scoring 100 points in game was considered difficult. Now if you don't score 100 you probably lose a game.

You still have it wrong and don't bother to look at shot distribution. The difference in scoring output is mostly coming from bench players, because stars are playing less minutes and not really shooting more. There's 1 guy averaging more than 30ppg this year and yet some act as if 100 guys from the 80s, 90s and 00s would average over 30ppg per game if playing now. It's simply delusional.

In his season where he scored the most points (2007), Allen played 40mpg... Won't happen now. He also had 21 FGA, something that just Beal is doing right now. Allen isn't coming in the league and shooting 25 times a game in 36 mpg! I'm so tired of this type of thread. Kobe had 22.8 FGA in 2007 and Carmelo 22.4. The style of play has changed.

There are more really good players.now as the talent in the league has never been better. Therefore more guys average 20+ ppg and the bench players play bigger minutes. Which means that the difference at the top would mostly be shooting 4-5 more 3s per game vs 2s, which would at best mean 1-2 more ppg, not 5 or 10.

Some people are inflating the stat inflation to make themselves feel better about the past. They're delusional if they think all these guys are averaging 30ppg. Most of them would be more efficient taking about the same number of shots in less minutes. That's it.

The guy just before me even brought the dumb point that it's easier to get to the line and Ray Allen would suddenly shoot more 3s and have more FTA.... FTA attempts are DOWN compared to the past! Less FTA because of more 3PA. It's pretty simple.

I won't even bother with the statement that defense is worst as it's obviously a bias and not based on reality.

[og15]

Put it this way, Allen would be a more valuable player than Kobe in today’s game.

Not at all

[The_Hater]

Depends on how good his team is because that would effect his usage rate but if you stuck him in the Bradley Beal role with the Wiz, he could put up similar if not slightly better numbers imo.

[og15]

Didn't you get the memo? Every star in the history of the NBA would average 30ppg, when it's not 35 or 40ppg.

Lol, I know you are trying to be funny but a lot of older stars would truly see an explosion in their numbers. The game is extremely different from how it used be played. It's played faster, it's perimeter oriented and more emphasis on the 3 point shot. Just on those facts alone and without naming other factors should tell you older players would avg more. Back in the 90s scoring 100 points in game was considered difficult. Now if you don't score 100 you probably lose a game.

You still have it wrong and don't bother to look at shot distribution. The difference in scoring output is mostly coming from bench players, because stars are playing less minutes and not really shooting more. There's 1 guy averaging more than 30ppg this year and yet some act as if 100 guys from the 80s, 90s and 00s would average over 30ppg per game if playing now. It's simply delusional.

In his season where he scored the most points, Allen played 40mpg... Won't happen now. He also had 21 FGA, something that just Beal is doing right now. Allen isn't coming in the league and shooting 25 times a game in 36 mpg! I'm so tired of this type of thread. Kobe had 22.8 FGA in 2007 and Carmelo 22.4. The style of play has changed.

There are more really good player now as the talent in the league has never been better. Therefore more guys average 20+ ppg and the bench players play bigger minutes. Which means that difference at the top would mostly be shooting 4-5 more 3s per game vs 2s, which would at best mean 1-2 more ppg... Not 5 or 10.

Some people are inflating the stat inflation to make themselves feel better about the past. They're delusional if they think all these guys are averaging 30ppg. Most of them would be more efficient taking about the same number of shots in less minutes. That's it.

The guy just before me even brought the dumb point that it's easier to get to the line and Ray Allen would suddenly shoot more 3s and have more FTA.... FTA attempts are DOWN compared to the past! Less FTA because more 3PA!!! It's pretty simple.

I won't even bother with the statement that defense is worst as it's obviously a bias and not based on reality.

I've mentioned this before. People want to give the pace and efficiency boost, but then they don't want to take into account the minutes per game reduction.

Teams simply don't play guys 40 mpg anymore. So for many guys, you get the boost from pace and efficiency, but then you lose it in minutes played.

A lot more teams are going heavier in the usage of perimeter guys as playmakers and ball handlers since post guys aren't used much in those roles, so that will give a lot of capable guys more apg, depending on what role they played before.

I'd say "peak" Allen is at 27-28 ppg, but the average season in his prime as long as he isn't on a bad team just shooting a lot, we would see more around 24-25 ppg playing around 35-36 mpg. This would be up from around 22 ppg that he put up per 36 minutes through his prime seasons.

[The_Hater]

Lol, I know you are trying to be funny but a lot of older stars would truly see an explosion in their numbers. The game is extremely different from how it used be played. It's played faster, it's perimeter oriented and more emphasis on the 3 point shot. Just on those facts alone and without naming other factors should tell you older players would avg more. Back in the 90s scoring 100 points in game was considered difficult. Now if you don't score 100 you probably lose a game.

You still have it wrong and don't bother to look at shot distribution. The difference in scoring output is mostly coming from bench players, because stars are playing less minutes and not really shooting more. There's 1 guy averaging more than 30ppg this year and yet some act as if 100 guys from the 80s, 90s and 00s would average over 30ppg per game if playing now. It's simply delusional.

In his season where he scored the most points, Allen played 40mpg... Won't happen now. He also had 21 FGA, something that just Beal is doing right now. Allen isn't coming in the league and shooting 25 times a game in 36 mpg! I'm so tired of this type of thread. Kobe had 22.8 FGA in 2007 and Carmelo 22.4. The style of play has changed.

There are more really good player now as the talent in the league has never been better. Therefore more guys average 20+ ppg and the bench players play bigger minutes. Which means that difference at the top would mostly be shooting 4-5 more 3s per game vs 2s, which would at best mean 1-2 more ppg... Not 5 or 10.

Some people are inflating the stat inflation to make themselves feel better about the past. They're delusional if they think all these guys are averaging 30ppg. Most of them would be more efficient taking about the same number of shots in less minutes. That's it.

The guy just before me even brought the dumb point that it's easier to get to the line and Ray Allen would suddenly shoot more 3s and have more FTA.... FTA attempts are DOWN compared to the past! Less FTA because more 3PA!!! It's pretty simple.

I won't even bother with the statement that defense is worst as it's obviously a bias and not based on reality.

I've mentioned this before. People want to give the pace and efficiency boost, but then they don't want to take into account the minutes per game reduction.

Teams simply don't play guys 40 mpg anymore. So for many guys, you get the boost from pace and efficiency, but then you lose it in minutes played.

A lot more teams are going heavier and the usage of perimeter guys as playmakers and ball handlers since post guys aren't used much in those roles, so that will give a lot of capable guys more apg, depending on what role they played before.

I'd say "peak" Allen is at 27-28 ppg, but the average season in his prime as long as he isn't on a bad team just shooting a lot, we would see more around 24-25 ppg playing around 35-36 mpg. This would be up from around 22 ppg that he put up per 36 minutes through his prime seasons.

While your point is valid and overlooked, there are other factors other than pace that have led to the individual scoring boosts. The increase in 3 point shooting at thr expense of long 2’s. The overall spacing making players more efficient. OTRG has gone from 103 to 112 over the past 20 seasons. eFG% has gone from 47.3% to 53.7% over the same period.

Plus which players are getting the shots has changed too. It’s no longer Shaq, DRob, Duncan and Hakeem in the post, it’s perimeter players who can shoot and create who have increased their usage rates. And coaches are relying less on running players for different players and relying more on getting the ball in their best players hands and starting the offense from there. The highest usage rate of Allen’s career was 29.5, Brad Beal has been 34.6 each of the last 2 seasons. So situation matters.

I think Ray Allen would be positively effected by everything I’ve added in the past 2 paragraphs.

[cupcakesnake]

Ray Allen was a rare player with a modern shot distribution playing in the early 2000s. He took about 40% of his attempts from 3, so he actually gains less than other theoretical players adapting modern shot distribution. Allen definitely took more long 2s than he'd take today, so there is a boost there, it's just not as dramatic as, say, re-imaging guys who were good 3-point shooters but took less than 3 per game.

I think Ray Allen's abilities as a ball handler, driver, point guard type have always been massively overstated. He had these things in his bag, but he wasn't amazing at it. He was just solid. I think people have this idea of Ray Allen as an all-time shooter who was sneakily elite as an on-ball attacker. By my eye this has never held up in film study. He was good not great. Allen didn't get to the rim at a high level, despite always playing on offensively slanted rosters with tons of shooting (he played with stretch 4s like Tim Thomas and Rashard Lewis when most of the league was still into defensive, rebounding types at the 4). He was good when he got there, but he wasn't crazy athletic (just solid) and he wasn't strong like Bradley Beal, who can muscle guys a bit more. His biggest value always came from how he opened up the floor for other scorers with his shooting and movement. The fact that he could also attack the defense was a definite bonus, but not what he should be known for. Ray Allen was also a little streakier than some people like to imagine. He could explode in the playoffs for massive barrages of 3-point shots (2001 and 2005 especially), but he was also prone to similarly massive cold spells (2012 being the playoff moment, but it happened in the regular season as well).

I think Ray Allen needs almost zero scaling for era. He'd be a guy that would still play the game similarly to how he did in his career, if he played today.

[Retro_Junkball]

He'd go up by about 2 ppg through most of his career. Pace would give another shot per game, his minutes wouldn't change all that much except for the 40 mpg outlier. He shot a lot of 3's, so he'd probably only take an extra two 3's per game. Reggie Miller would benefit more.

[Zombiesonics]

If Bradley Beal is putting up 31 ppg right now, Ray Allen could put up 35.

Beal is better than Ray Allen at everything except 3-point shooting.

This is patently false. I mean, maybe you have a thing for volume scoring on teams that don't win... but do yourself a favor and go examine the advanced offensive numbers for ray allen from 2000-2010, and compare them to what beal has done in his career. Beal is not the same impact offensive player that a ray allen or a reggie miller was.

[Onlytimewilltel]

If Bradley Beal is putting up 31 ppg right now, Ray Allen could put up 35.

Beal is better than Ray Allen at everything except 3-point shooting.

I’d take Ray Allen over Beal pretty easily. Was a better defender also and finisher at the rim. Not a huge Beal fan, I think Ray Allen is better overall. Beal feels more like an empty stats guy to me.

[OdomFan]

Top 10 on a bad team, potentially top 3-5 with great players and a point guard with him. No question the shooting guard in the NBA today. Milwaukee Bucks Ray Allen did it all on a high level and he got even better with the Sonics.

[Kingdibs19]

If Bradley Beal is putting up 31 ppg right now, Ray Allen could put up 35.

Beal is better than Ray Allen at everything except 3-point shooting.

I’d take Ray Allen over Beal pretty easily. Was a better defender also and finisher at the rim. Not a huge Beal fan, I think Ray Allen is better overall. Beal feels more like an empty stats guy to me.

This. Replace Beal on the current Wizards and I think Ray Allen puts up similar stats but the Wizards win a lot more.

[Def Leppard]

Beal

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[draftnightsuit]

Put it this way, Allen would be a more valuable player than Kobe in today’s game.

Is that you Ray?

[Danny1616]

He would average around the same stats.