Is Sam Presti closer to elite or average as a GM?

[Da ThRONe]

In my opinion a good gm is able to put a good team on the floor. Trading for draft picks does not make you a good gm. All he is doing is kicking the can down the road. They're basically the Sixers trust the process crap with Hinkie. The only thing presti is known for is losing Harden, Westbrook and Durant.

Yeah, it's not like Presti has picked three first ballot HOFs so far in his career...oh, wait.
Yeah, it's not like Presti has ever put together a team that made it to the finals before...oh, wait.
Yeah, it's not like Presti has ever put together a team that was up 3-1 in the conference finals against a 73-win opponent before...oh, wait.
Yeah, it's not like Presti kept the team competitive for multiple seasons even after KD ran off to the Warriors...oh, wait.

Presti can't be compared to Hinkie--both the good and the bad, they're nothing alike. Seriously, did you guys just start watching basketball last season?

Okc made the playoffs the previous year. Chris Paul was on what most people considered terrible contract and was washed in many people's eye.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

he's great.

he's probably trying something new lol. accumulating first round picks. this is the most prolific tactic of getting first rounders ive seen in NBA history lol. but of course GMs are ranked on getting elite talent + winning championships. right now he's above average to great GM but he's not elite.

[slos]

He was elite until he had formed a team with Russ/Harden/KD/Ibaka. Average after that. If Horst made all the right moves to keep Giannis in Milwaukee, then an “elite” GM like Presti should have done everything in his power to retain KD. Losing Harden was not one of those things. I don’t get how he gets a pass for that and Horst is still considered “average” because he let Brogdon walk…

[GSWFan1994]

Well he has turned down opportunities to work for both teams in New York, so whose fault is that?

Maybe he perceived he wouldn't have the freedom to do his job the way he wanted to, that's my guess.

if this is him doing the job the way he wants to then he's a mediocre GM. The only way you can see Presti as elite is if you believe that ownership overruled him and were too cheap to pay Harden or to fire the crappy coach they stick with for way too long.

But that's what actually happened.

[taikibansei]

In my opinion a good gm is able to put a good team on the floor. Trading for draft picks does not make you a good gm. All he is doing is kicking the can down the road. They're basically the Sixers trust the process crap with Hinkie. The only thing presti is known for is losing Harden, Westbrook and Durant.

Yeah, it's not like Presti has picked three first ballot HOFs so far in his career...oh, wait.
Yeah, it's not like Presti has ever put together a team that made it to the finals before...oh, wait.
Yeah, it's not like Presti has ever put together a team that was up 3-1 in the conference finals against a 73-win opponent before...oh, wait.
Yeah, it's not like Presti kept the team competitive for multiple seasons even after KD ran off to the Warriors...oh, wait.

Presti can't be compared to Hinkie--both the good and the bad, they're nothing alike. Seriously, did you guys just start watching basketball last season?

This is so adorably biased. Especially when you mention appearing in the finals when his big three were still kids, but not ever getting back, and choking a 3-1 lead, ad positives. Obviously it's not Presti's fault that KD choked.

Stopped reading there, as that was the last sentence that made sense.

No, KD's choke was not Presti's fault. As GM, his job is to build a playoff team capable of competing in the finals. That's it. If the players choke once they get to the big stage, then it's on them. GMs don't play.

[Pointgod]

The objective is to win right ? He never did it, he could have had KD, Harden and WB at the same time, a superteam of their own. They went far but failed. He and his guys look to be good at talent evaluating and young guys developing. The collection of picks is nothing for me, the point is, what he will do, if he and his front office use it wisely, than he will be historical good, much more historical than just having an insane number of picks

Presti is what I call a video game GM. He makes the type of moves that look good in 2K and the basketball media likes to talk about, but if you take a step back they’re not that great. Roughly 30% of first round picks are out of the league by the end of their first contract. There’s more to building a team than just draft picks. There’s development, fit, team culture, veteran presence etc. Ironically Presti had that with Chris Paul and the 2020 playoff team but for some insane reason decided to blow it up.

The worst are the excuses made for him. If OKC isn’t a free agent destination (isn’t true because both Westbrook and George would have stayed if Kwahi didn’t get in their ears), then making them a bottom feeding team definitely won’t attract any superstars and they’ll never trade for a superstar because it won’t immediately make them a contender so they’ll continue to be a treadmill lottery team unless they get really lucky in the draft (oh and how long before Shai gets sick of losing and asks out). It’s circular logic at its finest because if there’s anything that makes OKC an unattractive stigma around the team that Presti has created.

[CKB]

You can't be elite until you can build a championship team.

[dc]

Good overall GM who knows how to accumulate assets and get value back on a consistent basis.

But failed to find shooting when the team needed really needed it and has made questionable decisions on coaching hires/changes.

[Mavrelous]

I didn't like his off season, he extended SGA but has no cap space to sign a big name, keeps piling more picks but doesn't use them.
This draft had TOR drafting semi reach, he could've traded up, he could've thrown the kitchen sink at Cavs, traded for Kemba and 16th, then traded away 16th for more draft picks.
I'm really not impressed.
He did took asset accumulation to whole new level, no one has done before.

Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk

[BodieB]

Elite at selling fans and the media a future that may never come.

[JJ_PR]

Sam Presti is the best GM in the business, I don't know how you can say otherwise. Dude had the Thunder in the playoffs a year ago after trading both George & Westbrook.

He has SGA & Pokusevski on the roster & he hasn't even started using all the picks he acquired. Presti is a genius, period.

[MoneyTalks41890]

The returns in the Russ and PG trades prove he is elite.

[Cipoteman]

Of course he's made some mistakes during his tenure but he drafted back-to-back-to-back MVPs and I doubt any other GM will ever do that.

Plus his worst trade, in restrospective, was made when Harden was OKC's 6th man so I'd say that the main problem was the coaches failing to give Harden 35-40 minutes per night.

[HotelVitale]

I say this a lot here, but GM'ing isn't that complicated and we really need to stop thinking of it as some kind of crazy science that some people are amazing and other idiots at. The ​GM's job is to look out for opportunities and make good gambles, and almost all of the results for those things come down to 1) which opportunities are available and 2) how luck turns after those gambles--both of which are almost totally outside of the GM's control. In other words, there's a very limited set of moves a GM can make, those moves are almost always pretty obvious, and the results aren't predictable.

I think just about evey GM is well aware of all the possible moves any GM could make, so to me a good GM is able to increase opportunities and/or be able to fend off ownership's (bad) plans. Pat Riley to me is the most impressive GM in the business these days, even though I don't think he's particularly savvy or smart or anything. His persona and reputation have allowed him to work with the advantages Miami and the Heat have, and he's single-handedly increased the opportunities the Heat have had. I don't think he did anything 'smart' though, and he certainly made more than his share of moves I thought were very bad gambles. But if like Rich Cho were running the Heat for the last decade, they're not doing what MIA has done.

In the case of Sam Presti, he isn't personally charismatic and he's playing in a market with no advantages, so he doesn't have the Riley effect. His job is basically to take gambles and measure asset value. He has a LOT of rope so they're allowing him to do a full Hinkie-type rebuild, but there are complicated tricks for the position he's in beyond just working the phones to max his assets' trade values and swinging for the fences any time he can. Maybe a few of those swings will go out the park, maybe not. But he's still the same dude whether they come through or not.

[Dan Z]

He's a good GM, but let's see what he does with all those picks.

I was surprised that he traded the 16th pick in this draft (does he really need more picks?) and I'm not sure about drafting Giddey at #6.

[HotelVitale]

The returns in the Russ and PG trades prove he is elite.

Don't know, I really don't think so--those returns were possible because the other team made them possible, all Presti did was ask for a lot, point out he had other options, and wait for an answer. I don't think Presti did anything--or could've done anything--to either create the other teams' situation or make his players a better or more appealing option for them. PG was not only a legit mega-star in his prime demanding a trade, but was also interested in joining up with a team (the Clips) that desperately needed him to come to convince another star (Kawhi) to come. That was the situation, and Presti couldn't do anything more than repeat that and say he had other options if the Clips didn't meet his price. Most 2nd rate realtors or insurance adjusters could've navigated that situation, simple supply-demand leverage stuff. Presti gets credit for making it happen for sure, and maybe some other GMs would've let it get away from them, but it doesn't seem like it could mark off an 'elite' GM from a bad one.

Reason I'm harping on this is that, if we're judging GMs based on how much they got back in a situation, we're going to end up mostly judging the situations. That seems far away from what we're actually trying to do here, and I am really interested in the question of what makes a good GM.

[slick_watts]

luck is an important and often discounted factor. the thunder were beset by bad luck in the form of injuries during their peak years, and in 2015-16 ran into not one but two 10+ SRS teams they had to contend with. bemoaning sam presti for not 'building a championship team' is stupid. peak thunder teams were championship quality teams, for sure. a variety of circumstances, some out of sam presti's control, kept them from getting to the top of the mountain.

i don't think he's the best GM but he's definitely one of the better ones.

[Dominator83]

In my opinion a good gm is able to put a good team on the floor. Trading for draft picks does not make you a good gm. All he is doing is kicking the can down the road. They're basically the Sixers trust the process crap with Hinkie. The only thing presti is known for is losing Harden, Westbrook and Durant.

presti is more known for drafting 3 mvps in a row.....then he for losing them.

harden was traded because owners didnt want to pay luxury. not presti's fault.
durant left because he's weak. not presti's fault. he built a great team around him (aside from perkins and sefelosha)
westbrook wanted out because team was going to rebuild once pg13 wanted out.

i dont believe accumulating 20 late1st rd picks makes presti a great gm. he will have to reprove himself through those picks.

The Harden thing was still partially his fault. Yes cheap ownership is also at fault. BUT, presti knew what his budget was, and should have never wasted money on Perkins. Hell, if it came down to it, should have traded Ibaka before extending him. If it's a someone-must-go situation, sending off ibaka, as good as he was, was a no-brainer as opposed to Harden. And again, there's a good chance he could have kept them all of he didn't pay Perkins.

[rtiff68]

Good overall GM who knows how to accumulate assets and get value back on a consistent basis.

But failed to find shooting when the team needed really needed it and has made questionable decisions on coaching hires/changes.

I was wondering if someone would mention this— it’s what I consider to be the biggest blemish on his record. OKC had the talent to be a dynasty, but they failed over and over again for the same reason— they never had enough shooting/spacing.

He certainly excels at identifying talent in the draft and maximizing his return on trades, but his team building ability is questionable at best, and that— more than anything else— is what holds him back from being truly elite.

[MostValQuitter]

In my opinion a good gm is able to put a good team on the floor. Trading for draft picks does not make you a good gm. All he is doing is kicking the can down the road. They're basically the Sixers trust the process crap with Hinkie. The only thing presti is known for is losing Harden, Westbrook and Durant.

presti is more known for drafting 3 mvps in a row.....then he for losing them.

harden was traded because owners didnt want to pay luxury. not presti's fault.
durant left because he's weak. not presti's fault. he built a great team around him (aside from perkins and sefelosha)
westbrook wanted out because team was going to rebuild once pg13 wanted out.

i dont believe accumulating 20 late1st rd picks makes presti a great gm. he will have to reprove himself through those picks.

The Harden thing was still partially his fault. Yes cheap ownership is also at fault. BUT, presti knew what his budget was, and should have never wasted money on Perkins. Hell, if it came down to it, should have traded Ibaka before extending him. If it's a someone-must-go situation, sending off ibaka, as good as he was, was a no-brainer as opposed to Harden. And again, there's a good chance he could have kept them all of he didn't pay Perkins.

First of all Perkins was the glue of the team and a fan favorite not paying him wouldn't have went over well in the lockerrom or among fans that is not to say it wasn't a mistake but there was more that went into Perkins then just his salary and performance.

Ownership not signing off on the Harden extension was the mistake. He wanted to resign him.