New direction Bulls. do you bullieve? (August thread : have you changed your mind?)

[DroseReturnChi]

I like Demar and Lonzo. Those two with some shooters and a defensive center would be pretty decent.

Which makes the Vucevic move a complete waste.

vucevic is the shooter supposed upgrade from lauri except lauri is the better natural shooter and vuc is the worse defender.
with demar acquisition, vucevic is a useless spot up stretch 5 worth 10mil. he cant even move to perimeter and yet horrible rim protector. his passing ability and archaic post ups will be useless with lonzo, demar taking touches away.

i will give them props if they can move useless salary filler up to 35mil cap for all nba like simmons. they have former number 4,7, and high mid round for one last redemption depending the guy they can make ECF but 0.1% chance like masai pulling kawhi.
if they dont make a miracle move, thats a treadmill team next decade with lavine making 40mil from next yr.
some claim they were the biggest winner but honestly i can do those type of moves trading every pick for washed star it just i wont commit without a rookie contract all nba stud.

[RSP83]

I love what the Bulls are doing. Bulls have a competent FO. I like that with DD, Zach can now play off the ball, an underrated part of his game. I don't like how last year Zach had to do everything on offense for the Bulls to have a chance to win. Bulls bad defense narrative is overrated, If I'm not wrong I think Bulls ranked 12 on defensive rating last year. This year Bulls is bringing in more respectable defenders in Lonzo, Caruso, DJJ, Tony Bradley. I like this Bulls team better than Celtics, Knicks, Raptors, Pacers, Hornets.

[chitownsports4ever]

I like Demar and Lonzo. Those two with some shooters and a defensive center would be pretty decent.

Which makes the Vucevic move a complete waste.

vucevic is the shooter supposed upgrade from lauri except lauri is the better natural shooter and vuc is the worse defender.
with demar acquisition, vucevic is a useless spot up stretch 5 worth 10mil. he cant even move to perimeter and yet horrible rim protector. his passing ability and archaic post ups will be useless with lonzo, demar taking touches away.

i will give them props if they can move useless salary filler up to 35mil cap for all nba like simmons. they have former number 4,7, and high mid round for one last redemption depending the guy they can make ECF but 0.1% chance like masai pulling kawhi.
if they dont make a miracle move, thats a treadmill team next decade with lavine making 40mil from next yr.

You are approaching meme levels now

[GoBobs]

If you want to win in the playoffs, get some vets.

Good comparisons are Atl last year and the Suns. They don’t have a top player on the level of a Gannis, Luka, Lebron, Durrant, Curry, but they could still make a deep run. If other teams have injury problems they could even backdoor into a championship. The suns were a Gannis injury away last year and the Heat were an AD injury away the year before that. Raptors got lucky that Durrant and Klay were out. Anything can happen if you get to the second round with so many guys getting injured in recent years.

[Betta Bulleavit]

As a Bulls fan, it’s hard to put out any opinion that isn’t perceived as lacking in objectivity. But I will do my absolute best here.

I think that when people look at these moves, they are simply looking at WHAT the Bulls did and not nearly enough about HOW they did it. Yes, the Bulls acquired 3 guys (Derozan, Ball and Vuc) who have not proven very much in the way of playoff success. However, I believe that people are completely ignoring the fact that this will be as talented of a team as any of these guys have played on and that includes Zach. So from that end, I don’t know that we can really assume anything one way or the other. However, what we do know is that HOW the front office has pulled this off is very impressive. They didn’t sit on their hands and let limited cap space stop them from completely turning over a team that was very devoid of talent.

So with that said, I love these moves because not only does it demonstrate some level of commitment to winning, it also demonstrates that the front office is savvy enough to make alternative moves when they feel like they need to. Love the moves or hate them, that’s your choice. But like I said, we cannot assume anything about this team at the moment.

Another thing that I think that some outside fans fail to realize is that these “assets” that we gave up were marginal from a talent perspective. I loved WCJ when we drafted him and had high hopes. But he couldn’t stay healthy. Didn’t demonstrate any tangible development in the time that he was here. And his attitude and approach (to me) became questionable. And while he could still become a very good player, it just didn’t seem apparent that it was ever going to happen here. I’m not even going to get started on Lauri. All I will say is that Friday was a wonderful day for this organization. Period. I loved Thad. Sato and Temple too. I will never forget how they helped stabilize this young team at various points last season. But anybody that was paying attention knew that they were not going to be long-term solutions. So they were moved for players that potentially could be. The picks are obviously valuable. However, practically every one that we gave up projected to be late lottery or worse. Basically, the type of picks that tend to keep a team on….wait for it!! A treadmill!

So to wrap this thing up, I think that anyone that that assumes that these moves were somehow an attempt to make the Bulls title contenders will likely be left unimpressed. However, people that see these moves as steps to get out of the gutter will likely be impressed. The Bulls are not a gutter team anymore. They’ve become a viable team that will now be able to take that next step into contendership over the next couple of seasons. That’s my take on these moves.

[VanWest82]

I'm most fascinated by how they're going to run line ups. Bulls would likely function best with Demar coming off the bench in a Manu role to balance things out but it's doubtful he'd buy into that which means they'll be putting a lot of pressure on Lavine and Lonzo defensively to guard POA. Lonzo has been just ok on that end and Lavine, well...

[bisme37]

I don't know how it turns out on the court but I bullieve they have more good players than they used to.

[Maxthirty]

I would like their moves a lot more if they didn't include the Vuc deal. I think they should have kept Gafford as well.

[UcanUwill]

I myself not a fan of Vučević and Derozan, I don't have high hopes for this particular lineup, but I guess if you want to be a big market free agent destination, you need to get good first. Not necessarily very good, but at least be a good team. Look at Knicks, they are a New York super famous franchise, but they been so bad no superstar considered them for years. If Knicks were at least as good as grit and grind Memphis, you know a good team, I really believe they could have landed a huge fish by now.

I would like their moves a lot more if they didn't include the Vuc deal. I think they should have kept Gafford as well.

Same here, I just don't like Vooch, I think hes overrated. Gafford also can be very good on defense.

[celticfan42487]

Well I bullieve they should have made the playoffs last year and they added a lot talent imo. So playoffs yes, doing much more than the second round there? Nah.

But who wouldn't be happy with a

Lonzo
Lavine
Derozen
whomever
Vuc

Lavine is an all-star. Derozen and Vuc to varying levels are near all-stars. They're going to score a lot of points and be fun. They need like... a prime Draymond Green at PF in order to make it work for maybe a championship contender kinda stuff but hey this team is real fun and great and pretty young.

[ChettheJet]

The old management was all about drafting solid if unspectacular players who were juniors or seniors from quality winning programs. This meant they had a fundamentally sound team of solid citizens who never developed into the all star caliber players that everybody else won titles with. They ended up making the playoffs, treading water, , never good enough to get to the ECF, save for the one time the ping pong balls fell their way and they got Derrick Rose who was unlike their usual brand of player.

When Rose went down and was then traded nobody stepped up or showed up to be a star to replace him. That's when they descended into 3 straight #7 picks followed by a #4 slot and a new crop of good contributing players who due to injuries and lack of depth kept losing which resulted in John Paxson and Gar Foreman getting dumped

Karnasovas inherited that failed team and had the #4 pick. He made the big move for al all star center that the Bulls hadn't seen since Joakim Noah for one of those #7 picks and 2 more future picks. Plus another deal to clear out some dead weight. COVID precautions sat Zach Lavine so he only played 3 games with Vucevic so they again didn't have 2 all stars and missed the play in tournament. Then over the summer he cleaned house ending with the Markkanen deal leaving the Bulls with 2 players who were there at the start of the previous season, Lavine and White. Get a grasp on that they cleared out 12 players in one year's time. You've got to figure those 12 weren't all that great.

Demar DeRozan is the SF not the constantly injured Otto Porter jr, or Chandler Hutchison or Denzell Valentine or Shaq Harrison
Patrick Williams is now the starting PF not the annually injured Lauri Markkanen
Nikola Vucevic is the starting center not the often injured, inconsistently offensive minded Wendell Carter jr.
Lonzo Ball is the starting PG, not the often injured reluctant shooting Kris Dunn or the non aggressive Tomas Satoransky or the sophomore year learning the position Coby White
and Zach Lavine who was a first time all star at 27PPG and is now an Olympic Gold medalist who might not have all the burden on his shoulders another year

And you don't think they've improved, how many of the guys they dealt away are starting anywhere?

They now have at least 3 starters who can score 20PPG when they haven't had 2 for decades, they have a PG who can pass the ball so that Zach Lavine won't be leading the team in assists, their starting PF started every game at SF last year so he's no kid anymore. Last year's starting PG is now the 6th man combo guard that people have always claimed he is, their other backup guard was a key bench piece of the championship Lakers. Their backup SFs are defensive specialists who can actually shoot the basketball former FRPs not G League refugees

[HotelVitale]

They'll be a tough team to beat, and they were also flat-out tired of losing and needed to show Lavine something to get him to stay. No problems with them taking the route they did.

They're all-in on an aging team now and that'll catch up soon, but they also have enough young and medium-career guys that they can pivot from there. Maybe Pat Williams and Coby White make some leaps, maybe Lavine and Ball pop together, and even if not they still have a lot of moves they can make as the older guys decline. It's not like they're stuck in the mud if Vucevic doesn't click again or Derozan loses a step.

Whether or not the fanbase will be annoyed at another 5 years of not being a real contender is a different story. I remember CHI fans were really, really optimistic about the Wade-Rondo-Butler team and that turned into some wasted years. This isn't exactly the same but that's the only pause I'd have here, and I don't think the alternatives were better.

[PlatinumState]

Best roster they had in a while, bench is looking a little thin though.

[HotelVitale]

Demar DeRozan is the SF not the constantly injured Otto Porter jr, or Chandler Hutchison or Denzell Valentine or Shaq Harrison
Patrick Williams is now the starting PF not the annually injured Lauri Markkanen
Nikola Vucevic is the starting center not the often injured, inconsistently offensive minded Wendell Carter jr.
Lonzo Ball is the starting PG, not the often injured reluctant shooting Kris Dunn or the non aggressive Tomas Satoransky or the sophomore year learning the position Coby White
and Zach Lavine who was a first time all star at 27PPG and is now an Olympic Gold medalist who might not have all the burden on his shoulders another year

I like the Bulls moves but you know that this is just stating the positives and not the negatives right? Could flip it around and so the same.

--A 32 year-old scorer who's a meh defender making $30m the next 3 years is now the SF instead of young possible stud Patrick Williams (Also Porter, Hutchison, Valentine and Shaq H started exactly 9 games between them last year)
--A 31 year-old scorer who's a weak defender is making $25m the next 3 years is the center, instead of a young two-way prospect not making much $
--A young low volume player who's had one-year of being a plus player and is now making $25m a year is the starting PG instead of a very reliable vet like Satoransky and a young cheap scorer in Coby White (Dunn wans't on the team last year and wasn't a FT starter the year before)
--Patrick Williams moves out of position before he's ready and messes up the spacing that Markkanen brought, and more importantly can't be spelled by last years's low-key MVP Thad Young
--Zach Lavine remains Zach Lavine, and is maybe the last guy on earth you need to surround with more weak-defending scorers, and suddenly doesn't seem so amazing when he doesn't have to play hero ball all season; is also soon to be the 4th kind of one-dimensional guy in the starting lineup making max or near-max money

[cool007]

I would like their moves a lot more if they didn't include the Vuc deal. I think they should have kept Gafford as well.

Man Vuc is soooooooooo underrated. People act like he is a bum or something. He was arguably (IMO, not) the 3rd best center in the NBA behind Embiid and Joker. this guy gets you 24ppg 11rpg on a nightly basis and his not good defense is overly exaggerated. Bulls had Wendell Carter Jr last year AND Gafford - that most believe are pretty good defenders but Bulls sucked when they were defending the paint/pick and rolls. Pretty much every single scrub big (not all-stars but scrubs) had seemingly career night against Bulls.

I actually love seeing how we have 3 underrated star level players that may not be good by themselves but together, I think Bulls will surprise a lot of people. I can't wait for the season to start.

Hot take: Lavine next year should be in a (some) conversation for MVP candidate next season.

[PlayerUp]

On paper everything looks solid but they assembled a group of players who don't have a history of being winners. Can they come together and change that. Only time will tell.

It will all come down to chemistry, them transforming themselves into winners, Zach Lavine turning into a true #1 and the growth of Patrick Williams, Lonzo Ball and Coby White.

[UcanUwill]

I would like their moves a lot more if they didn't include the Vuc deal. I think they should have kept Gafford as well.

Man Vuc is soooooooooo underrated. People act like he is a bum or something. He was arguably (IMO, not) the 3rd best center in the NBA behind Embiid and Joker. this guy gets you 24ppg 11rpg on a nightly basis and his not good defense is overly exaggerated. Bulls had Wendell Carter Jr last year AND Gafford - that most believe are pretty good defenders but Bulls sucked when they were defending the paint/pick and rolls. Pretty much every single scrub big (not all-stars but scrubs) had seemingly career night against Bulls.

I actually love seeing how we have 3 underrated star level players that may not be good by themselves but together, I think Bulls will surprise a lot of people. I can't wait for the season to start.

Hot take: Lavine next year should be in a (some) conversation for MVP candidate next season.

You and I are on completely opposite spectrums on Vučević. I think he is probably the most overrated player in the NBA, to me he was new Minny's Kevin Love, just not nearly as good as most believe.

I made my point here months ago.
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2080376

[Jadoogar]

I think this team has a second round ceiling and might get lucky some year and make the conference finals. Honestly that's not bad, lots of teams would kill for that outcome.

[PlayerUp]

I remember CHI fans were really, really optimistic about the Wade-Rondo-Butler team and that turned into some wasted years. This isn't exactly the same but that's the only pause I'd have here, and I don't think the alternatives were better.

Ironically that team wasn't all that bad. Bulls could have swept the Celtics 4-0 in the playoffs and advanced to the 2nd Round. Rondo got hurt in Game 2 and the Bulls lost 4 games in a row.

[Ballerhogger]

There defense will be lack lusters and counting on vuviec is not going help at the Center position .