Masai Ujiri is Overrated

everdiso · Post #21 » by **everdiso** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:43 am

In the 5yrs prior to Masai, the Raps averaged 30 wins per season and never made the playoffs.

In 8yrs under Masai, the Raps have averaged 53 wins per season and finished with home court advantage in every single season other than this past covid season, with no home court, when they literally benched everyone to tank.

Post #22 » by **Mavrelous** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:10 am

He drafted extremely well, and haven't lost a single trade I can think of, his 1st lottery pick was this year, I think it's safe to say he's the best in the league.
The Lowrey trade was for Lowrey, not for Dragic/Achiwua, and I'm sure many players around the league appreciate taking 20+ millions in salary you don't want just to please a player that served you well, this will be hugely appreciated.

junot111 · Post #23 » by **junot111** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:17 am

What a dumb thread... So you discredit all of his accomplishments in Toronto (including winning a championship two years ago) based on:
1. an unfounded belief that Dragic refuses to play for the Raptors, which is not true at all
2. your opinion that Suggs is a better prospect than Barnes, despite many analysts saying otherwise

GTFO spoiled Lakers fan

nomansland · Post #24 » by **nomansland** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:42 am

Even if he did make a mistake by not drafting Suggs (which is still to be determined), calling him overrated simply for that is a pretty big reach. *Every* GM makes a mistake here and there, but you have to judge them by their overall track record and Uriji's is excellent, both with Denver and Toronto.

Stop with this nonsense.

Post #25 » by **zimpy27** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:16 am

Last championship run was running:
23-25 yo: FVV, Siakam, Powell
27-29 yo: Kawhi, Ibaka
31+ yo: Lowry, Green

Next season will be running:
20-22 yo: Barnes, Achiuwa
23-25 yo: Flynn, Anunoby, Trent
27-29 yo: FVV, Siakam, Boucher, Birch

They are building to something in a couple seasons.

C_Money · Post #26 » by **C_Money** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:31 am

Woah are you talking sh*t about my favourite team?

Lol but srsly I’ve disagreed with a lot of things he’s done since winning the Championship. I don’t think he knows himself what direction the team is going in.

prelude00 · Post #27 » by **prelude00** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:37 am

Let's just forget about his entire resumé before before last season, right?

His moves in the last 8-9 years turned the raptors from a joke franchise to one that has some respect.

Neither Barnes, nor Suggs have played a single game yet in the NBA so it's a tad bit unfair to judge those picks. I'd say most raptors fans believe that Suggs will surely outplay Barnes this season as well. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Barnes is still a top end talent in this draft. The raptors have one of, if not, the best development systems in the league.

Let's circle back to this pick in 2-3 years and then have a debate.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

DAcReator · Post #28 » by **DAcReator** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:30 pm

So basically Masai is overrated because a real gm expert has determined Scottie Barnes was the wrong Pick

Good enough for me, I’m in! Overrated!

CobraCommander · Post #29 » by **CobraCommander** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:31 pm

Danny1616 wrote:Dragic instagram bio caption says he's player for the Raptors. Why did you make up a lie that he doesn't want to play for the Raptors?

Masai has been an incredible GM. Here are some of his classic hits:

1) Traded Rudy Gay for Vasquez, Patterson, Hayes and Salmons.

2) Traded Vasquez for the draft rights to Norman Powell and a future protected first round pick. That first round pick turned into OG Anunoby (who was a steal at 20).

3) Traded Terrence Ross for Serge Ibaka.

4) Traded Derozan, Poeltl and a 1st for Kawhi and Green.

5) Traded JV, Wright and CJ Miles for Marc Gasol.

6) Drafted Siakam at 27 who was a steal.

7) Drafted Powell at 46 who was a steal.

8) Drafted OG at 20 who was a steal.

9) Signed Vanvleet who was undrafted.

10) Traded Bargnani for Novak, a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks.

Masai was able to build a perennial 50+ win team and at the same team find assets late in the draft to build a nice young core while being a contender.

Raptors record since Masai took over:

2013-2014 finished 48-34
2014-2015 finished 49-33
2015-2016 finished 56-26
2016-2017 finished 51-31
2017-2018 finished 59-23
2018-2019 finished 58-24
2019-2020 finished 53-19
2020-2021 finished 27-45

Under rated?

CobraCommander · Post #30 » by **CobraCommander** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:33 pm

C_Money wrote:Woah are you talking sh*t about my favourite team?

Lol but srsly I’ve disagreed with a lot of things he’s done since winning the Championship. I don’t think he knows himself what direction the team is going in.

Since winning a ring.....

Let that sink in Toronto....

HabsAndDubs · Post #31 » by **HabsAndDubs** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:59 pm

The Kawhi trade is arguably the most successful trade in history- he could trade Siakam for a top 55 protected pick and still be considered a top tier GM based on that.

HEAT33 · Post #32 » by **HEAT33** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:18 pm

Did anyone think the raptors would even win a ring? I say no so winning a ring might be the raptors best achievement in the next 40 years. And guess who is behind that?

nikster · Post #33 » by **nikster** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:18 pm

Optms wrote:They move Lowry for Dragic who refuses to play for them. They then decide to not draft the BPA and elite prospect guard, Jalen Suggs. Who should have been the face of the PG spot moving foward. This team seems like it has no real direction given the past 2 years worth of transactions. Kawhi left, Marc, Ibaka, Powell, Lowry. Who is next? Siakam?

They have a good scouting team so I give them the benefit of the doubt for now but if Suggs goes on blow up in Orlando, and Barnes becomes just another role player or he busts, its going to haunt this team for years.

A lot of Raptor fans are going to come in and defend the hell out of him and I completely understand. I'm just stating that from the outside looking in, it doesn't look good. And on a side note - I like Barnes. I also like Kuminga, Sengun and Moody too. But not over Suggs. That selection shouldn't have been complicated to make.

Nothing he could have done about Kawhi, Marc was washed, Ibaka would have been nice but Masai wanted a chance at Giannis. Powell we traded for GTJ who we resigned. It was Lowrys time to go, he wouldnt really have got any more at the trade deadline (and Lowry told him he wanted to finish the season a Raptor anyway).

Judging draft picks who havent played a game yet is stupid, and we wont know who the better pick is for at least a couple years.

RoyceDa59 · Post #34 » by **RoyceDa59** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:25 pm

Based on your post I could tell really quickly that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Dragic wasn’t even the main piece in the trade. Lol. Do some research. The main piece fits perfectly into Massi’s well documented plan.

Scotty Barnes - who will be the more impactful player, fits perfectly into that plan as well.

Do some research.

Karate Diop · Post #35 » by **Karate Diop** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:37 pm

Masai isn't the gawd-GM Yung Raps fans claim he is but he's a very good GM... If be comfortable placing him in the top tier of current GM's..

ATLTimekeeper · Post #36 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:38 pm

1) Maybe they could have gotten a little more for Lowry?
2) We can't know for sure whether Barnes will be better than Suggs at this juncture.

It's hard to argue when there's almost no criteria to debate, maybe that was the point?

Jabroni Lames · Post #37 » by **Jabroni Lames** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:39 pm

Danny1616 wrote:Dragic instagram bio caption says he's a player for the Raptors. Why did you make up a lie that he doesn't want to play for the Raptors?

Masai has been an incredible GM. Here are some of his classic hits:

1) Traded Rudy Gay for Vasquez, Patterson, Hayes and Salmons.

2) Traded Vasquez for the draft rights to Norman Powell and a future protected first round pick. That first round pick turned into OG Anunoby (who was a steal at 20).

3) Traded Terrence Ross for Serge Ibaka.

4) Traded Derozan, Poeltl and a 1st for Kawhi and Green.

5) Traded JV, Wright and CJ Miles for Marc Gasol.

6) Drafted Siakam at 27 who was a steal.

7) Drafted Powell at 46 who was a steal.

8) Drafted OG at 20 who was a steal.

9) Signed Vanvleet who was undrafted.

10) Traded Bargnani for Novak, a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks.

Masai was able to build a perennial 50+ win team and at the same team find assets late in the draft to build a nice young core while being a contender.

Raptors record since Masai took over:

2013-2014 finished 48-34
2014-2015 finished 49-33
2015-2016 finished 56-26
2016-2017 finished 51-31
2017-2018 finished 59-23
2018-2019 finished 58-24
2019-2020 finished 53-19
2020-2021 finished 27-45

Ujiri with Nuggets:

2010-11 finished 50-32 (61%)
2011-12 finished 38-28 (58%)
2012-13 finished 55-27 (67%)

Jeezus.

DroseReturnChi · Post #38 » by **DroseReturnChi** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:46 pm

Reeko wrote:This discussion has been had ad nauseam on the Raptors board. The team is building from the ground up right now, with Pascal and Fred as the veteran leaders of the team. The player we got back for Lowry was Precious not Goran, as Goran really doesn't have future with the team.

There were many who were upset at passing on Suggs, but after seeing Scottie go to work in Summer League, there are very very few Raptors fans who are concerned about the pick. We've accepted it and moved on, most of us are all aboard the Scottie Barnes hype train. His upside is considerably higher than Suggs, I'm not saying he'll reach it or that he'll definitively be the better player, but his measurements, BBIQ, and passion for the game give him a nice floor regardless.

if your changing gm bc of 1 pick, thats pretty dumb but casuals thinking all that way.
every gm makes mistake and the logic for passing suggs although he is a better player, he plays for the worst position and has a limited ceiling. the idea is scottie will outvalue him by the end of his rookie yr 4 teams passed on him not just toronto.

it is a worthy gamble and not a franchise killing move. good for magic tho for basically getting an all star for free and your not expected to get his caliber at 5. this draft is very weak top 3 i like top 4 and 5 better. i have been saying this barnes and suggs will be controversial even before when his stock was rapidly rising to top 5 its the ultimate test of ceiling vs floor.

Optms · Post #39 » by **Optms** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:46 pm

Domejandro wrote:Kyle Lowry was leaving Toronto anyways, this trade just helped him go to the team he wanted.

For the Draft pick, neither player has played yet. Assuming someone who is well accomplished is “overrated” because you disagree with a pick they made seems pretty reactionary.

Why didn't he retire as a Raptor? And why trade him for a player who refuses to be there? That seems like total a massive front office blunder. Especially considering how much Lowry did for that team. Not sure how else to say it.

Suggs was projected to go in the top 4. He was the best player available in all mocks and among scouts. By all accounts, Suggs is unanimously the better player coming in and he would have fitted a position of need with Lowry gone. Just makes very little sense to take a projected worse player at the foward spot. They already have OG, Achiuwa and Siakam. How many fowards do they need?

LAL1947 · Post #40 » by **LAL1947** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:48 pm

HEAT33 wrote:Did anyone think the raptors would even win a ring? I say no so winning a ring might be the raptors best achievement in the next 40 years. And guess who is behind that?

Pop and Kawhi. :devil:

Is Ujiri overrated?