Killian Hayes is Really...Bad

[G R E Y]

I wonder if part of the issue is pressure on team or expectation of lottery pick player to play regular minutes or even start when they aren't ready and need more seasoning in the system of a given team.

Not all lottery picks are able to contribute right away and they get lost in the leap to the NBA.

[mg]

He has no right hand at all. He can’t shoot. He’s not an elite athlete. Bad mix for a PG.

This. Add in the hip injury and it's not looking good at all.

FWIW the Pistons did draft Stewart and Saddiq Bey (Kennard trade) in that draft to ease the pain of the Killian pick. After lucking into the top pick this year there's really no reason to have Hayes in the rotation once Cade is at full health.

[nikster]

Piston first rounders

Year, Round, Pick
2020 1 7 Killian Hayes France ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
2020 1 16 Isaiah Stewart United States Washington
2019 1 15 Sekou Doumbouya France Limoges CSP
2017 1 12 Luke Kennard United States Duke
2016 1 18 Henry Ellenson United States Marquette
2015 1 8 Stanley Johnson United States Arizona
2013 1 8 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope United States Georgia
2012 1 9 Andre Drummond United States Connecticut
2011 1 8 Brandon Knight United States Kentucky
2010 1 7 Greg Monroe United States Georgetown
2009 1 15 Austin Daye United States Gonzaga
2008 1 29 D. J. White United States Indiana
2007 1 15 Rodney Stuckey United States Eastern Washington
2007 1 27 Arron Afflalo United States UCLA
2005 1 26 Jason Maxiell United States Cincinnati
2003 1 2 Darko Miličić Serbia and Montenegro Hemofarm Vršac (Serbia and Montenegro and Adriatic League)
2003 1 25 Carlos Delfino Argentina Skipper Bologna (Italy)
2002 1 23 Tayshaun Prince United States Kentucky
2001 1 9 Rodney White United States Charlotte
2000 1 14 Mateen Cleaves United States Michigan State
1998 1 11 Bonzi Wells United States Ball State
1997 1 19 Scot Pollard United States Kansas
1996 1 26 Jerome Williams United States Georgetown
1995 1 18 Theo Ratliff United States Wyoming
1995 1 19 Randolph Childress United States Wake Forest
1994 1 3 Grant Hill United States Duke
1993 1 10 Lindsey Hunter United States Jackson State
1993 1 11 Allan Houston United States Tennessee
1992 1 19 Don MacLean United States UCLA

So the Pistons haven't drafted an star player since Grant Hill almost 30 years ago?

This is an near unbreakable curse placed on the prospects of Cade.

And have to go back 14 years to Afflalo to get a pick that outperformed their draft spot, and they traded him away for nothing. Tayshaun Prince is probably the last pick they had that made an impact on the franchise

[GrindCityHustle]

they might just have to move him to a wing defender as a 2/3 type guy. At 6'5 he can play wing positions, just needs to add more weight. He has 1.5 steal a game which is good. He just can't shoot or really score so might just accept his potential is as a specialist at this point.

I think trying to make him into a starting PG will end up in Dante Exum territory so just accept what u have on ur hands and make it into something that could work. You swap Stewart/Hayes draft positions and it starts to not look as bad.

They have Cade so their PG position is set for the future anyway.

[loserX]

Too bad, I liked him. Hope springs eternal, but in the meantime add him to the list of reasons I'm not a professional scout

[MrSparkle]

He had some appealing attributes. I liked his passing vision, crafty handles and PnR in highlights. But like many, I had way too much time on my hands during the covid summer so I watched entirely too much video of him, Deni, LaMelo, Wiseman, etc.

The things that stuck out to me with Killian:

- horrible competition
- slow as hell
- couldn’t shoot reliably at all

KOC and Ringer were super high on him, but I started getting more Evan Turner and Elfrid Payton vibes than whatever they were trying to sell.

I think you can be relatively slow and kill it as a ballhandler, but you need to be able to shoot and have impeccable ambidextrous handles. He’s a one-direction dribbler with very shaky shooting. Super project. He should’ve been the 15th pick. He’s still an interesting prospect with pass talent.

Fortunately they got themselves Saddiq Bey, who irrationally dropped to #19. Guys that looked good ended up dropping: Hali, Maxey, Precious, Nesmith.

More I saw Deni, Wiseman and Hayes, more I thought “hope the Bulls don’t burn their #4 on this hype.” Funnily I spent 1 second looking up Pat. He was out the blue. This injury sucks, and he’s struggled, but still looks like a solid gamble compared to most the other top-10 picks, besides LaMelo and Edwards leading far and away.

[Capn'O]

I was duped by Hayes. As Harry Garris put it, he had a lot of intriguing points but apparently not the level of talent.

Piston first rounders

Year, Round, Pick
2020 1 7 Killian Hayes France ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
2020 1 16 Isaiah Stewart United States Washington
2019 1 15 Sekou Doumbouya France Limoges CSP
2017 1 12 Luke Kennard United States Duke
2016 1 18 Henry Ellenson United States Marquette
2015 1 8 Stanley Johnson United States Arizona
2013 1 8 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope United States Georgia
2012 1 9 Andre Drummond United States Connecticut
2011 1 8 Brandon Knight United States Kentucky
2010 1 7 Greg Monroe United States Georgetown
2009 1 15 Austin Daye United States Gonzaga
2008 1 29 D. J. White United States Indiana
2007 1 15 Rodney Stuckey United States Eastern Washington
2007 1 27 Arron Afflalo United States UCLA
2005 1 26 Jason Maxiell United States Cincinnati
2003 1 2 Darko Miličić Serbia and Montenegro Hemofarm Vršac (Serbia and Montenegro and Adriatic League)
2003 1 25 Carlos Delfino Argentina Skipper Bologna (Italy)
2002 1 23 Tayshaun Prince United States Kentucky
2001 1 9 Rodney White United States Charlotte
2000 1 14 Mateen Cleaves United States Michigan State
1998 1 11 Bonzi Wells United States Ball State
1997 1 19 Scot Pollard United States Kansas
1996 1 26 Jerome Williams United States Georgetown
1995 1 18 Theo Ratliff United States Wyoming
1995 1 19 Randolph Childress United States Wake Forest
1994 1 3 Grant Hill United States Duke
1993 1 10 Lindsey Hunter United States Jackson State
1993 1 11 Allan Houston United States Tennessee
1992 1 19 Don MacLean United States UCLA

So the Pistons haven't drafted an star player since Grant Hill almost 30 years ago?

This is an near unbreakable curse placed on the prospects of Cade.

I've heard Jason Maxiel still has potential.

[vagelis]

The most weird thing is that Pistons had D.Rose coming from the bench in order Killian Hayes to be the starter.
I wonder how some people achieved to become NBA coaches, scouters and managers

[bstein14]

The most weird thing is that Pistons had D.Rose coming from the bench in order Killian Hayes to be the starter.
I wonder how some people achieved to become NBA coaches, scouters and managers

I agree Killian would have been better off going against bench talent early on rather than starters. I think the idea was that they would each play about 6 minutes per quarter, and that Rose would get to finish out games that way.... Rose also had a very high usage and took a ton of shots so I think it may have been a bit about letting Rose be "the man" on the 2nd unit and get more shots up overall.

That said, I still think right now Killian should go to the bench and play about 16 MPG against backups and just continue to work on his game rather than just being thrown out there against starters and continuing the struggle bus he's been on. I'm also 100% on board of letting him go down to the G League for a bit to work on his craft and get his confidence up a bit.

[DTP]

Love how 90% of you haven't really watched his game much or don't really know basketball but are so opiniated on him. Has it been pretty? Of course not but he's pretty much gotten off to the same start Lonzo Ball had, without a pretty serious hip injury that kept him out significant amount of time in his rookie season and a head coach that keeps him on a very tight string. Lonzo Ball got the opportunity to play through his mistakes and got the confidence from his coach to still be aggressive....meanwhile, Killian is fighting for minutes over Cory freaking Joseph. It also sucks that Killian is really a PnR guard at this point in his career but his center that he plays with is undersized, average athlete, and literally can't set a proper pick to save his life and is a very little pop threat at this point. A ton of great passes that Killian has made to open teammates have come up empty because they're shooting very poorly as well.

The good- he's a really good defender for his age (had 5 steals last night) and will continue to improve on that end. With his size, he should be a Lonzo Ball type defender with more experience. His catch & shoot isn't that bad either, he looks good when he's balanced. Looking at his free throw percentage, there is reason to believe with more work he'll improve as a better catch & shooter.
Last year he was really left dominant but he's able to get anywhere he wants on the floor early on, so that's an improvement. The offense will come when he's next to Cade and his teammates start hitting shots....it'll open the floor up. It'll also be a huge + if the team acquires a legit lob threat at some point in the future. It'll really help both Killian and Cade's game.

He's not James Harden or anything like that like we heard during the draft but if he becomes Lonzo Ball 2.0 we'll have a very nice fit next to Cade & Bey.

[bisme37]

There were a number of people on the C's board who wanted Hayes but I thought he was just too slow and not quite skilled or savvy enough to make up for it. So I'm not personally surprised he's been struggling, but at the same time he had a pretty serious injury and hasn't played much yet, so he can still turn it around. Best of luck to him.

[MrBigShot]

He still has time but he is one of the worst players in the NBA right now. Really poor feel for the game, always seems rushed.

[ItsDanger]

He's got decent defensive potential but at #7, that's not what you should be taking in a PG. His shooting is awful. I just don't see it with him.

[DTP]

I also want to point out that his idiot head coach is playing him against other starters but playing him minutes like a backup pg at this point. In the two games that he's played over 22mins he's been our best defensive guard, going up against great teams (Phi & Atl), averaging 10.5ppg 3.5apg (on a team that can't make open shots right now- realistically this should be 2-3 higher) shooting 8/22 from the field and 3-7 from 3. Very typical of a young (20 year old) point guard.

[PlatinumState]

I knew he was gonna suck

[AbeVigodaLive]

I watched his first NBA game. It remains the only game I've seen of his.

I thought he was embarrassingly bad. It's one thing to be raw and undisciplined as a young guy. But if you don't have the athleticism or chops to project... you're just bad.

Apparently, he's still entirely overmatched.

[Dogen]

Piston first rounders

Year, Round, Pick
2020 1 7 Killian Hayes France ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
2020 1 16 Isaiah Stewart United States Washington
2019 1 15 Sekou Doumbouya France Limoges CSP
2017 1 12 Luke Kennard United States Duke
2016 1 18 Henry Ellenson United States Marquette
2015 1 8 Stanley Johnson United States Arizona
2013 1 8 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope United States Georgia
2012 1 9 Andre Drummond United States Connecticut
2011 1 8 Brandon Knight United States Kentucky
2010 1 7 Greg Monroe United States Georgetown
2009 1 15 Austin Daye United States Gonzaga
2008 1 29 D. J. White United States Indiana
2007 1 15 Rodney Stuckey United States Eastern Washington
2007 1 27 Arron Afflalo United States UCLA
2005 1 26 Jason Maxiell United States Cincinnati
2003 1 2 Darko Miličić Serbia and Montenegro Hemofarm Vršac (Serbia and Montenegro and Adriatic League)
2003 1 25 Carlos Delfino Argentina Skipper Bologna (Italy)
2002 1 23 Tayshaun Prince United States Kentucky
2001 1 9 Rodney White United States Charlotte
2000 1 14 Mateen Cleaves United States Michigan State
1998 1 11 Bonzi Wells United States Ball State
1997 1 19 Scot Pollard United States Kansas
1996 1 26 Jerome Williams United States Georgetown
1995 1 18 Theo Ratliff United States Wyoming
1995 1 19 Randolph Childress United States Wake Forest
1994 1 3 Grant Hill United States Duke
1993 1 10 Lindsey Hunter United States Jackson State
1993 1 11 Allan Houston United States Tennessee
1992 1 19 Don MacLean United States UCLA

Oh … dear

Holy cow that’s a quarter century of brutally poor drafting.

[cupcakesnake]

I was a big fan of his in the draft. I thought he'd be more successful than Haliburton because he was strong enough to get into the lane. He was a big boy! I figured his strength would be a nice foundation to build his passing/scoring game on.

But the big surprise with Hayes is how contact adverse he is. He does all sorts of dumb, cutesy stuff to avoid his defenders body. I pictured this guy bodying people from day 1 so this development has flipped his script for me. His free throw rate is tiny. He still looks like a decent passer, but he's literally avoiding using his body on drives.

Killian, you were drafted a power guard with nice passing skills. If you aren't going to draw contact, you don't have a role in the NBA.

[hauntedcomputer]

Bad teams stay bad over entire generations. It's kind of amazing when you consider it lasts through multiple FO/ownership/coach/player turnovers. It almost seems like "curse" is the best way to describe it, but it's probably just baked-in stupidity.

[floppymoose]

Jordan Poole says