Unreal Big Man Play

[JujitsuFlip]

Again, Giannis isn't a big.
I refuse to label a guy who's bringing the ball up court so regularly, as a big.
Jokic and Embiid are true bigs. Giannis isn't.

Go easy now.

[phanman]

Again, Giannis isn't a big.
I refuse to label a guy who's bringing the ball up court so regularly, as a big.
Jokic and Embiid are true bigs. Giannis isn't.

A 6'11 Freak, that regularly leads the league in points in the paint isn't a big?

Jokic brings the ball up too...

[cupcakesnake]

Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid are all really good and all-time great basketball players! Never forget!

To me they're 1, 2, and 3 in the MVP race right now and the top 3 players in the NBA. I also think Gobert is arguably 4th on my non-existent MVP ballot.

[Capn'O]

Yup. The league is trending bigger again. Look at the Cavs. What you can't have is stiffs that size anymore. But big players that can do it all? Bring 'em on.

[JujitsuFlip]

According to basketball-reference.com and 82games.com, Giannis is playing all his minutes this season between PF and C, close to 50/50 between both positions. Outside of opinions, if no one has indisputable stats the other way, it is safe to say, this season, Giannis is a big.

[cupcakesnake]

Again, Giannis isn't a big.
I refuse to label a guy who's bringing the ball up court so regularly, as a big.
Jokic and Embiid are true bigs. Giannis isn't.

Positions are

[dygaction]

Again, Giannis isn't a big.
I refuse to label a guy who's bringing the ball up court so regularly, as a big.
Jokic and Embiid are true bigs. Giannis isn't.

Interesting Jokic may bring the ball up court more regularly than Giannis.

[MrGoat]

Don't forget Luka's 41 and 14. And yes he's a big, I'm pretty sure he outweighs all of the aforementioned guys

[Duke4life831]

Again, Giannis isn't a big.
I refuse to label a guy who's bringing the ball up court so regularly, as a big.
Jokic and Embiid are true bigs. Giannis isn't.

A 6'11 Freak, that regularly leads the league in points in the paint isn't a big?

Jokic brings the ball up too...

Ya Giannis is the biggest guy in the lineup
leads the league in points in the paint
6th in rebounding
11th in blocked shots

Has an awful lot in common with what most consider to be a big...

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It's really amazing how these guys have ran past AD. He used to be the gold standard, now I don't think anyone would take him over any of them.

[phanman]

What I love about these 3 guys is how different their playing styles are yet they still dominate the game in their own ways. Giannis is that bruising battering ram style, Embiid is a do-it-all center with guard like jumpers, and Jokic is a the best playmaking big in NBA history with an un-real jumper himself.

All unicorns in their own right.... which ironic because the guy given that label is no longer special in the Zinger

[Jadoogar]

Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid are all really good and all-time great basketball players! Never forget!

To me they're 1, 2, and 3 in the MVP race right now and the top 3 players in the NBA. I also think Gobert is arguably 4th on my non-existent MVP ballot.

And then you have guys like Anthony Davis, KAT, Jarrett Allen, Evan Mobley. People saying the big man position was in decline really exaggerated.

[cupcakesnake]

Yup. The league is trending bigger again. Look at the Cavs. What you can't have is stiffs that size anymore. But big players that can do it all? Bring 'em on.

I know it's early, but man the Cavs are exciting. The synergy or Garland/Mobley/Allen I think is going to be off the charts. They're already a top 4 team this season going by net rating, SRS, and defensive rating. Allen and Mobley are light on their feet and defend without fouling (Cleveland is #1 in avoid fouls).

I think if Cleveland finds a wing rotation and becomes a contender as soon as next year, the league is going to be copycatting and looking to pair multiple mobile bigs with complementary skills. Easier said than done, but I think we'll see it trend if Cleveland delivers on this promise of success.

[Sedale Threatt]

Is it really unreal when it's just 3 players? I mean I can name 3 players from the 60's or the 90's. Especially if you increase the pool to PFs which Giannis is.

It is more about the supposed dead of the centers being just a temporary thing when we had 3 years of Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol and DeAndre Jordan as All-NBA 1st team centers.

Now besides Embiid, Jokic and Giannis we shouldn't forget about AD either despite a rough stretch. What about Gobert who is legit one of the best defensive players we've probably ever seen? How about KAT being arguably the greatest shooting big ever? That isn't even counting the young bigs also breaking through as star players like Bam, Ayton, Allen and Mobley.

Somebody did this last year, but they ran through a list and it was surprising how many really, really good centers & PFs there are in the NBA. Like it was 15 or 20 deep. It's just that many or even most of them don't play like traditional big men used to, so it's easy to overlook or forget.

[Capn'O]

Yup. The league is trending bigger again. Look at the Cavs. What you can't have is stiffs that size anymore. But big players that can do it all? Bring 'em on.

I know it's early, but man the Cavs are exciting. The synergy or Garland/Mobley/Allen I think is going to be off the charts. They're already a top 4 team this season going by net rating, SRS, and defensive rating. Allen and Mobley are light on their feet and defend without fouling (Cleveland is #1 in avoid fouls).

I think if Cleveland finds a wing rotation and becomes a contender as soon as next year, the league is going to be copycatting and looking to pair multiple mobile bigs with complementary skills. Easier said than done, but I think we'll see it trend if Cleveland delivers on this promise of success.

Love what the Cavs are doing. Just a joy to watch.

I'm going to speak as my namesake for a minute (Captain Obvious) but the copycat thing is so annoying. The point is to build a good team. There's not some magic bullet formula that gets there (small, big, shooting, posting) but knowing your personnel and foreseeing how players fit. You can't duplicate Curry's success without Curry, his perfect foil (Klay) and great complementary pieces that augmented his strengths and covered for his shortcomings.

[SF_Warriors]

I get that there are multiple threads going on about Embiid/Jokic/Giannis right now. But they all seem to turn into the same old pissing contest. Player X is better than Player Y. Play X maybe better than Player Y on offense, but player X sucks on defense.

If everyone can get over the dumb nonsense and take a step back and realize we are watching some unbelievable play by big men right now. I mean we just had

Giannis:
33/15/7 with 2 steals and a block

Embiid:
50/12/2 with 1 steal and 3 blocks

Jokic:
49/14/10 with 3 steals and a block

It used to be a struggle to find 3 bigs that did that in a season, we just had 3 guys do it in a single night. Even if you dont want to throw in Giannis into this discussion. We have true 5s in Jokic and Embiid just flat out dominating the game. Maybe instead of all the pointless back and forth, maybe its time to realize we are watching 2 (3 if we want to throw in Giannis) of the all time great bigs going at it in their primes. Yes Jokic and Embiid are going to go down as some all time great bigs. Just sit back and enjoy it.

amazing. Excluding last season (with the same suspects involved) I think you have to go back to the 2000-2003 time window to see 2 or 3 MVP (Shaq, Duncan, Kg, Dirk) caliber bigs putting up these performances. Almost 20 years

That era was probably the last where the title actually went through the bigs. Everyone knew around that time that the title went through Duncan or Shaq... but then the next most threatening teams also had star mvp caliber bigs: Dirk/KG/Cwebb and then you had the pistons with big ben leading the way defensively making the finals twice, and the only teams to beat them with him and sheed had duncan or Shaq.

[cupcakesnake]

Yup. The league is trending bigger again. Look at the Cavs. What you can't have is stiffs that size anymore. But big players that can do it all? Bring 'em on.

I know it's early, but man the Cavs are exciting. The synergy or Garland/Mobley/Allen I think is going to be off the charts. They're already a top 4 team this season going by net rating, SRS, and defensive rating. Allen and Mobley are light on their feet and defend without fouling (Cleveland is #1 in avoid fouls).

I think if Cleveland finds a wing rotation and becomes a contender as soon as next year, the league is going to be copycatting and looking to pair multiple mobile bigs with complementary skills. Easier said than done, but I think we'll see it trend if Cleveland delivers on this promise of success.

Love what the Cavs are doing. Just a joy to watch.

I'm going to speak as my namesake for a minute (Captain Obvious) but the copycat thing is so annoying. The point is to build a good team. There's not some magic bullet formula that gets there (small, big, shooting, posting) but knowing your personnel and foreseeing how players fit. You can't duplicate Curry's success without Curry, his perfect foil (Klay) and great complementary pieces that augmented his strengths and covered for his shortcomings.

Agreed, Captain Obvious!
It would be interesting to go into: worst copy cat roster strategies ever. Which teams tried to be the Warriors without shooting on offense, or tried to draft "the next Draymond" with whatever bad short, strong guy they could find, or tried to run SSOL without Steve Nash, or the Triangle with Shaq/Kobe/Jordan (basically whoever got stuck with anyone from the Phil coaching tree lol). Find the best players you can find and a coach who will maximize their special abilities. Stop mimicking champions with your garbage roster.

But behind that, there are the trends that stick in a positive way. After SSOL's success with going small (Marion/Amare and then Marion/Diaw), every team realized you could slant things towards your offense and sometimes get better results. I think Curry did finally popularize getting potent scoring guards off the ball a bit more.

So if Cleveland becomes a perennial contender and a strong playoff performer, I think we'll see both. Teams will be looking for value in previously undervalued big men. That will result in some straight-up bad return to the 90s style power forward position, but the successes will provide us with a counter against "death lineups" and small-ball teams that try to survive with 3 big wings (like last years playoff Clippers). I'm down for this because it diversifies potential lineup strategies. I think increasingly, bigs are coming into the league with better foot speed and perimeter defense fundamentals. This rookie class we got Mobley, Barnes, Wagner (and some other guys who haven't cracked rotations: Garuba, Trey Murphy, Kai Jones, Jalen Johnson, Isaiah Jackson). Jalen Duren, Chet Holgrem, Jabari Smith are all coming in this draft.

[Capn'O]

I know it's early, but man the Cavs are exciting. The synergy or Garland/Mobley/Allen I think is going to be off the charts. They're already a top 4 team this season going by net rating, SRS, and defensive rating. Allen and Mobley are light on their feet and defend without fouling (Cleveland is #1 in avoid fouls).

I think if Cleveland finds a wing rotation and becomes a contender as soon as next year, the league is going to be copycatting and looking to pair multiple mobile bigs with complementary skills. Easier said than done, but I think we'll see it trend if Cleveland delivers on this promise of success.

Love what the Cavs are doing. Just a joy to watch.

I'm going to speak as my namesake for a minute (Captain Obvious) but the copycat thing is so annoying. The point is to build a good team. There's not some magic bullet formula that gets there (small, big, shooting, posting) but knowing your personnel and foreseeing how players fit. You can't duplicate Curry's success without Curry, his perfect foil (Klay) and great complementary pieces that augmented his strengths and covered for his shortcomings.

Agreed, Captain Obvious!
It would be interesting to go into: worst copy cat roster strategies ever. Which teams tried to be the Warriors without shooting on offense, or tried to draft "the next Draymond" with whatever bad short, strong guy they could find, or tried to run SSOL without Steve Nash, or the Triangle with Shaq/Kobe/Jordan (basically whoever got stuck with anyone from the Phil coaching tree lol). Find the best players you can find and a coach who will maximize their special abilities. Stop mimicking champions with your garbage roster.

But behind that, there are the trends that stick in a positive way. After SSOL's success with going small (Marion/Amare and then Marion/Diaw), every team realized you could slant things towards your offense and sometimes get better results. I think Curry did finally popularize getting potent scoring guards off the ball a bit more.

So if Cleveland becomes a perennial contender and a strong playoff performer, I think we'll see both. Teams will be looking for value in previously undervalued big men. That will result in some straight-up bad return to the 90s style power forward position, but the successes will provide us with a counter against "death lineups" and small-ball teams that try to survive with 3 big wings (like last years playoff Clippers). I'm down for this because it diversifies potential lineup strategies. I think increasingly, bigs are coming into the league with better foot speed and perimeter defense fundamentals. This rookie class we got Mobley, Barnes, Wagner (and some other guys who haven't cracked rotations: Garuba, Trey Murphy, Kai Jones, Jalen Johnson, Isaiah Jackson). Jalen Duren, Chet Holgrem, Jabari Smith are all coming in this draft.

Yes, absolutely. My post was more about trying to find the "next so and so" than the larger analytical trends. Even so, most great teams still need guys that can dominate in the midrange. Just not everyone should be taking those shots in the pros.

[velkisimo]

What would make this truly epic is rivalry between Jokic and Embiid and if they would go head to head often and in the playoffs. Shame they are not in the same conference.

[Duke4life831]

What would make this truly epic is rivalry between Jokic and Embiid and if they would go head to head often and in the playoffs. Shame they are not in the same conference.

A finals clash between them would be great to watch.