OT: Bonds & Clemens Miss HOF

[Shock Defeat]

Not just Bonds/Clemens, but A-Rod didn't even get in.

The MLB has decided to make a handful of players the scapegoat for the steroid era. Those scapegoats will never get in, but other people like Ortiz who may have also been juicing, are not affected.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think it's ridiculous. We all know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs, but so were lots of players, and Bonds technically never even tested positive. To me, Bonds was a HoFer before he even started breaking homerun records.

I think he did. What he claimed was that he didn't know the cream he was using contained peds(which I am fairly certain he did know).

[Cavsfansince84]

Not just Bonds/Clemens, but A-Rod didn't even get in.

The MLB has decided to make a handful of players the scapegoat for the steroid era. Those scapegoats will never get in, but other people like Ortiz who may have also been juicing, are not affected.

tbf, its more than a handful. You can add Ramirez, Piazza(I think), Sosa, Bagwell and others. Personally I think Oritz was using quite a bit of stuff as well but I don't really care who the bbhof is voting in.

[DaPessimist]

I think it's ridiculous. We all know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs, but so were lots of players, and Bonds technically never even tested positive. To me, Bonds was a HoFer before he even started breaking homerun records.

I think he did. What he claimed was that he didn't know the cream he was using contained peds(which I am fairly certain he did know).

IIRC he never actually tested positive. During his court case he admitted to using a steroid cream.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think it's ridiculous. We all know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs, but so were lots of players, and Bonds technically never even tested positive. To me, Bonds was a HoFer before he even started breaking homerun records.

I think he did. What he claimed was that he didn't know the cream he was using contained peds(which I am fairly certain he did know).

IIRC he never actually tested positive. During his court case he admitted to using a steroid cream.

For all intents and purposes, isn't that the same thing though? There was also a list of like 50-100 players who got tested and whose names got leaked in the Mitchell report I believe which is said to have included ARod and I think Bonds. I'm not anti Bonds getting in though either way.

[jokeboy86]

Of course they should but its an absolute joke that they penalize them but Ortiz gets it. But let's be real, this is about that some writers and the media don't like Clemens and none of them I repeat none of them ever liked Bonds period. If you think the media hates dealing with Belichick, Lynch, Irving multiply that by a 1000 of what they thought of Bonds. To a lot of them this is Bonds's comeuppance. They also feel that somebody having to do with emergence of the Red Sox other than Martinez has to make the Hall buts its a joke that Ortiz even made it over Ramirez. It stinks.

[JN61]

Chris Clemons?

[Optms]

Isn't Pete Rose also not on there? The baseball HOF is an even bigger joke than than basketball.

[Jersey Generals]

Nope, and Ortiz shouldn't have gotten in, either. But now that he is, it's over. Just let people who have been caught once in. If you get caught twice, like A-Rod, that's the line of distinguishing for me.

[Doctor MJ]

Isn't Pete Rose also not on there? The baseball HOF is an even bigger joke than than basketball.

Rose is a different thing. Player gambling almost killed the sport earlier in its history and they drew a line against those players that still holds today - Shoeless Joe Jackson not in the Hall.

Fine to disagree with this, but the HOF isn’t contradicting itself by holding that line against Rose.

When it comes to players cheating by doing things that make them better at baseball (and thus helping the popularity of the sport), the HOF is going against both historical norms and being inconsistent within era (Ortiz just got in on first ballot despite testing positive for steroids.)


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[dhsilv2]

I think he did. What he claimed was that he didn't know the cream he was using contained peds(which I am fairly certain he did know).

IIRC he never actually tested positive. During his court case he admitted to using a steroid cream.

For all intents and purposes, isn't that the same thing though? There was also a list of like 50-100 players who got tested and whose names got leaked in the Mitchell report I believe which is said to have included ARod and I think Bonds. I'm not anti Bonds getting in though either way.

Which of course had serious chain of custody issues as the tests were done with the player's names on them. There was a list of names and corresponding numbers. These tests done before MLB was officially testing. While I'd argue pretty hard that it's pretty darn likely these guys were using, I can't imagine any court taking these finding and building a criminal case.

[dhsilv2]

Isn't Pete Rose also not on there? The baseball HOF is an even bigger joke than than basketball.

The all time hit king and home run kings are not in the baseball hall of fame. Cause...purity? Meanwhile these same writers who have votes will mostly end up in...the same people who turned a blind eye to all of this.

[Tor_Raps]

Bonds and Clemens not being in the Hall of Fame is a complete joke. You might as well tear that building down. Ortiz got in because he's a media darling while Bonds/Clemens were not.

You should not be in a position of power if you make decisions based on this. Both Bonds/Clemens guys were BEASTS before their supposed roid usage and were easily on track to make the Hall of Fame anyways.

And of all people to get in is the guy who should be a poster child for Roids. Ortiz was a complete scrub and then got good out of nowhere. It's not a coincidence that he got busted for roids during that time.

[Parataxis]

Do you think they should've gotten in?

This was their last (10th) year of eligibility so they're shut out permanently I believe. Sosa missed out also.

David Ortiz made it and was the only person inducted this year

They're not shut out permanently. But they're no longer eligible for voting.

They can still be inducted to the HoF by the Veteran's committee. I suspect that it will happen, probably in the next 20 years or so.

[maxpower8888]

Guaranteed there are players in the HoF right now that have done roids. Bonds is IMO the best player to ever play the game, even without roids he would have been an all-time great.

[DirtyDez]

Bud Selig who ignored the rampant steroid use for ratings is in the HOF lol.

[shakes0]

Absolutely not. They wouldn’t have been nearly as good if they weren’t juicing. And they took away from the guys who didn’t cheat. I grew up a White Sox fan and we had Frank Thomas who was completely clean and still put up amazing numbers. I always wondered just how much higher he would’ve been in the record books if he didn’t have to compete vs juicers.

Screw Bonds and Clemens. they were good enough to still be great if they didn’t cheat.

[JRoy]

No roidhead or corked-bat user should get into the HOF without paying admission.

[azcatz11]

Absolutely not. They wouldn’t have been nearly as good if they weren’t juicing. And they took away from the guys who didn’t cheat. I grew up a White Sox fan and we had Frank Thomas who was completely clean and still put up amazing numbers. I always wondered just how much higher he would’ve been in the record books if he didn’t have to compete vs juicers.

Screw Bonds and Clemens. they were good enough to still be great if they didn’t cheat.

With all due respect, Shakes, how do you know he was clean?

[slicedbread2]

Absolutely not. They wouldn’t have been nearly as good if they weren’t juicing. And they took away from the guys who didn’t cheat. I grew up a White Sox fan and we had Frank Thomas who was completely clean and still put up amazing numbers. I always wondered just how much higher he would’ve been in the record books if he didn’t have to compete vs juicers.

Screw Bonds and Clemens. they were good enough to still be great if they didn’t cheat.

If Frank Thomas didn't get injured at the worst times of his career he could've easily topped 600 home runs. The fact that he voluntarily submitted urine samples to show that he was clean makes it even better. He was known to be vocal about his opposition to steroids as well where he had advocated for drug testing as early as 1995 and was the only player who agreed to be interviewed for the Mitchell report in 2007.

It's sad that Bonds didn't take Ken Griffey Jr.'s advice in ignoring the hoopla and to just let his play do the talking. If he had laid off the steroids he could've been the 1st ever player to have 500hrs, 500sbs and potentially 3,000 hits not to mention all the other accolades he accomplished, but greed got to him in the end. Griffey was truly special and it's a shame injuries ruined him, but still impressed he got 600hrs nonetheless.

As a Blue Jays fan I wish Roy Halladay(RIP) could've had a Blue Jays cap on his HOF plaque, but still happy he got in regardless. Hate Alomar though especially for what he did(sexually harassed an 18 y/o staffer in 2014) which resulted in the Blue Jays+MLB severing ties with him.