Article: We don't talk enough about Jokic's scoring

[eyeatoma]

? Jokic isn't top 10 in FTA, he could definitely improve his already insane efficiency by getting more fouls called like the other superstars.

Its either:
1. He's not getting officiated the same as other superstars
or
2. He's the most agile big man of all time, capable of avoiding contact despite most of his points coming from the paint.

Or the most logical answer. He doesn't draw the same amount of contact, and isn't as aggressive.

Or he doesn't flop like a fish because he's 7 ft 260+ lbs and has the balance of an adult male

Ah, resort to subjective takes, when logic is presented. Gotcha!

[Jables]

This is a parody at this point, there's nothing about Jokic that isn't being talked to death.

Oh he'd be DPOY if he flopped, oh he'd score more than Jordan if he gave a ****, oh he'd be a better playmaker than Magic if he played with Kareem, he'd run faster than any NBA PG if a time traveller from the future gave him the cybernetic legs that he's earned damn you.

[eyeatoma]

This is a parody at this point, there's nothing about Jokic that isn't being talked to death.

Oh he'd be DPOY if he flopped, oh he'd score more than Jordan if he gave a ****, oh he'd be a better playmaker than Magic if he played with Kareem, he'd run faster than any NBA PG if a time traveller from the future gave him the cybernetic legs that he's earned damn you.

It's the usual suspects that start this narrative as well. As I said the GB is basically the Nuggets board.

[Lockdown504090]

He could be 30 ppg scorer if he wanted to and very efficient one . Every season there is the month and half when he doesn't look to score the ball, its tradition now .

Or if he was simply officiated like other MVP candidates instead of having to lose his cool against the refs, he could live at the line as well. I think we would see a 70+% TS season out of him if he averaged 11+ FTA instead of the 6(!) he does now.

jokic gotta flop if he wants calls, flopping would hurt his fg% . Rhythm Speed balance quickness is the referee mantra towards foul calls. When the defender is illegally impeding those areas, fouls are called. jokic is usually bigger and giving more force than hes taking, so its hard to call things even when he clearly gets hit.

With the exception of giannis, everyone thats up there in free throws is practicing making things look like they are affected in one of more of these factors. because jokic is strong, but not fast, he would have to intentionally draw and then embellish the contact. I hate to do the comparison thing, but the reason joel is able to get to the line like this is because he puts so much force on defenders, then removes it the instant they give it back to him, baiting them into affecting his RSBQ.

[falcolombardi]

Jokic is the most efficient high volume scorer in the league with a pedestrian FTr.

He's been poor from 3 the past couple of weeks but he's absolute money from anywhere inside the arc. Elite post scorer, mid range shooter, and offensive rebounder as well.

He's doing all this while shouldering most of the playmaking and creation load and on a team with subpar spacing.

lebron is the only comparable scorer among low free throw players this year

a step below in efficiency but in higher volume

LeBron certainly has a strong case this season. How do you feel about KAT?

i think he has all the tools to be dirk nowitzky with a better jumper

hoping for another leap from him

[Cubbies2120]

This is a parody at this point, there's nothing about Jokic that isn't being talked to death.

Oh he'd be DPOY if he flopped, oh he'd score more than Jordan if he gave a ****, oh he'd be a better playmaker than Magic if he played with Kareem, he'd run faster than any NBA PG if a time traveller from the future gave him the cybernetic legs that he's earned damn you.

It's the usual suspects that start this narrative as well. As I said the GB is basically the Nuggets board.

Do you have this same energy in the countless Embiid threads started on the board by "the usual suspects" from the Sixers side? No? Didn't think so...

[Whopper_Sr]

lebron is the only comparable scorer among low free throw players this year

a step below in efficiency but in higher volume

LeBron certainly has a strong case this season. How do you feel about KAT?

i think he has all the tools to be dirk nowitzky with a better jumper

hoping for another leap from him

I don't see him matching Dirk's mid-post scoring threat but as a pure shooter, sure.

[maxwellcu]

It’s great that we can always count on Filly fans to give us their super illuminating and nuanced takes when they aren’t busy literally guzzling horse manure off of the streets of their beloved city.

[maxwellcu]

Can you imagine Giannis or Jokic or Luka or anyone else in the league crying crocodile tears to the media about how not getting enough wuv for the mvp hurt his precious whittle feelings?

Lmao. Pathetic. What a loser.

[eyeatoma]

This is a parody at this point, there's nothing about Jokic that isn't being talked to death.

Oh he'd be DPOY if he flopped, oh he'd score more than Jordan if he gave a ****, oh he'd be a better playmaker than Magic if he played with Kareem, he'd run faster than any NBA PG if a time traveller from the future gave him the cybernetic legs that he's earned damn you.

It's the usual suspects that start this narrative as well. As I said the GB is basically the Nuggets board.

Do you have this same energy in the countless Embiid threads started on the board by "the usual suspects" from the Sixers side? No? Didn't think so...

I don't speak for Hussein, I've already said he needs to tone it down.

[falcolombardi]

LeBron certainly has a strong case this season. How do you feel about KAT?

i think he has all the tools to be dirk nowitzky with a better jumper

hoping for another leap from him

I don't see him matching Dirk's mid-post scoring threat but as a pure shooter, sure.

young dirk was not the post Monster he would be later, and was more a pick and pop target and Drive to the rim guy

i hope towns puts in the work and goes to hakeem gym or somethingh cause it would give a greater dimensión to his game and to minnesota

[falcolombardi]

i think we as basketball fans tend to underate efficiency compared to volume, the big ppg numbers impress us more at a glance that the big efficiency

i think the way we compare scorers is confusing because we dont put in context how many points efficiency advantages are worth

we know than 30> 25, but we dont put in precise numbers how much +10 ts% > +5 ts%

if we evaluated scorers by how many points over an average efficiency scorer their volume + efficiency combination adds it would give a more sccurate idea of a scorer value

is entirely possible than a 25 points scorer in elite efficiency adds more points to a team thsn a 33 points scorer in good efficiency

[cupcakesnake]

? Jokic isn't top 10 in FTA, he could definitely improve his already insane efficiency by getting more fouls called like the other superstars.

Its either:
1. He's not getting officiated the same as other superstars
or
2. He's the most agile big man of all time, capable of avoiding contact despite most of his points coming from the paint.

Or the most logical answer. He doesn't draw the same amount of contact, and isn't as aggressive.

Or he doesn't flop like a fish because he's 7 ft 260+ lbs and has the balance of an adult male

While Embiid does absolutely "flop like a fish" (seriously, the man is a great lover of falling down), the main reason he's able to weaponize getting to the line so much is in his physical gifts. Embiid has an explosive and slithery first step, and enough strength to get to his spots.

While Jokic does appear to get rough treatment from the refs, and is more mobile than some people understand, Jokic's first step (a crucial part of being a high volume foul drawer) isn't special. Jokic gets to the line with his brute stretgh, and by being the trickiest man in the game (why so serious?). But he doesn't have the same physical explosiveness that allows Embiid to just force his way to the line of every possession.

There's also the matter that Jokic's offense is all about weaponizing the synergy of his scoring and passing, constantly threatening the defense with both. He keeps defenses so off-balance this way and will pass it whenever he sees an opportunity. Passing like this does incredible things for an offense, but it doesn't draw shooting fouls. Embiid is much more tilted towards scoring. He weaponized the threat of his jumper in combination with being a physical problem if he gets into the paint. While he'll pass well in reaction to the defense if they overplay him hard, Embiid is moreso on a mission to score the **** out of the ball. Being more geared towards scoring generates more free throw attempts.

I kinda hate wading into the Jokic Embiid comparisons, because parts of both players fan bases have becoming unbearable about it. But on the other hand, it's very exciting to compare these players. We haven't had mega bigs like this in a generation, and them having such contrasting styles and huge games makes for quality discussion.

[eyeatoma]

Or the most logical answer. He doesn't draw the same amount of contact, and isn't as aggressive.

Or he doesn't flop like a fish because he's 7 ft 260+ lbs and has the balance of an adult male

While Embiid does absolutely "flop like a fish" (seriously, the man is a great lover of falling down), the main reason he's able to weaponize getting to the line so much is in his physical gifts. Embiid has an explosive and slithery first step, and enough strength to get to his spots.

While Jokic does appear to get rough treatment from the refs, and is more mobile than some people understand, Jokic's first step (a crucial part of being a high volume foul drawer) isn't special. Jokic gets to the line with his brute stretgh, and by being the trickiest man in the game (why so serious?). But he doesn't have the same physical explosiveness that allows Embiid to just force his way to the line of every possession.

There's also the matter that Jokic's offense is all about weaponizing the synergy of his scoring and passing, constantly threatening the defense with both. He keeps defenses so off-balance this way and will pass it whenever he sees an opportunity. Passing like this does incredible things for an offense, but it doesn't draw shooting fouls. Embiid is much more tilted towards scoring. He weaponized the threat of his jumper in combination with being a physical problem if he gets into the paint. While he'll pass well in reaction to the defense if they overplay him hard, Embiid is moreso on a mission to score the **** out of the ball. Being more geared towards scoring generates more free throw attempts.

I kinda hate wading into the Jokic Embiid comparisons, because parts of both players fan bases have becoming unbearable about it. But on the other hand, it's very exciting to compare these players. We haven't had mega bigs like this in a generation, and them having such contrasting styles and huge games makes for quality discussion.

Well written post.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[alebaba]

It's neither of those 2 things. He's surprisingly nimble for his size but the biggest reason he doesn't draw as many fouls is because his success relies heavily on lighting-quick decision making. If you watch film of Embiid/Jokic it's easy to verify Joel draws legitimate fouls at a much higher rate.

Legitimate is a stretch. I have zero problems with it, because it exists in the game and its fair to take advantage of it, but Embiid sells contact better most/any player in the league, and thats why he gets calls. Not because he 'legitimately gets fouled more

Embiid's foul rate isn't because he sells fouls better than other players, it's because he legitimately draws more contact. A larger percentage of his offense relies on baiting contact-no doubt- but that doesn't illegitimize the results. Defenses are welcome to test his face up game and play more cautiously

O please, when Embiid was one of my favorite player, even I knew he was getting soft ass calls compare to the other bigs. He's the only big that I've seen that get ref like a guards. This dude literally would fall on the ground on his own and get to shoot fts, put your homer glasses off.

Kinda silly you need to flop like a fish to get calls.. Can you imagine if every players decided to play like Trae young, Embiid and James Harden....

[JnewFTW]

Honestly Jokic used to be underrated and not talked about much. Now I think it's swung the other way and we talk about him too much.

[turnaroundJ]

you'd think a guy with such a physical post game would get more calls. maybe his moves are "too good" so defenders can't even keep up enough to foul him.

[Monky15]

I'm waiting for someone to do some analysis on the number of times per game todays player are falling, staggering or tripping compared to the previous generations.
I wouldn't be surprised if the results showed that more players today end up on their arse or staggering compared to previous. What that would obviously mean is todays game must be more physical and dangerous compared to the past!