Jokic is 3rd this season in wins among MVP candidates

[3toheadmelo]

Embiid got robbed

Pretty telling how everyone who is saying this don't even give reasons for why they think this.

I mean do we need to state the obvious? He plays on both ends unlike Jokic, first scoring leader for a C since Shaq, and he got out the first round.

[imDatknicksTape]

privelege all it is. reminds me when nash won over shaq and kobe

[dhsilv2]

Embiid got robbed

He would have played the least games in NBA history to win the MVP had he got it. And won less games than the MVP. And have been the worse player...and his team under preformed vs the winner's team.

[dhsilv2]

Does this account for the fact Embiid played 6 less games than Jokic??

Because if not, Embiid EASILY wins at least a couple more games (if not more) & it would be a flawed stat at best.

Players have always been penalized for missing games in MVP and DPOY voting. Nobody who's missed as many games as Embiid did has won the MVP before.

[PhilBlackson]

Unless Embiid was beat up by Jokic (or someone else above Embiid in the list) so he couldn't play in those 6 games, I'm not seeing a connection.

It's not hard if you don't put your blinders on lol...

If Embiid plays the same amount of games it's INCREDIBLY likely he wins more games which defeats the purpose of pointing out who won more games. Unless you're a poster that believes Karl Malone was a greater scorer than Michael Jordan because he had more overall points without the context that Jordan played less games?! lol yeah it matters and yes it's flawed.

If they won at the same % that they did with Embiid playing over the course of the season, the Sixers would have won 3 more games (of the 14 games he missed). Coincidentally, that's the exact same number of extra wins the Nuggets would have won out of the 8 games Jokic missed, if they had won them at the same rate with Jokic playing during the rest of the year.

None of what you're saying dispels anything lol.

The fact is if they played the SAME amount of games...Joel would have MORE wins than Jokic for the same amount of games played (period) and therefore as I said this is a flawed "point" to try and make.

[BelgradeNugget]

Unless Embiid was beat up by Jokic (or someone else above Embiid in the list) so he couldn't play in those 6 games, I'm not seeing a connection.

It's not hard if you don't put your blinders on lol...

If Embiid plays the same amount of games it's INCREDIBLY likely he wins more games which defeats the purpose of pointing out who won more games. Unless you're a poster that believes Karl Malone was a greater scorer than Michael Jordan because he had more overall points without the context that Jordan played less games?! lol yeah it matters and yes it's flawed.

“If guy who gets injured every year played in more games, he would have a better case for MVP.”

Yeah, no ****. What point are you even trying to make? If Embiid had played in more games last year, he might have won then too. But he didn’t, and that stuff matters in these discussions.

Wow, this discussion is going in the advanced stat territory. If player X played Y games with Z% he would have...nobody can understand that like nobody understands PER, BPM, LEBRON, RAPTOR, Win shares, EPM...it is for basketball nerds, keep it simple guys, like who won more games...

[Raps in 4]

we gotta stop conflating best player with production in this discussion. jokic did the most stuff the most often and was there for enough wins to get the most award. I dont think hes better than giannis joel luka kd or bron, but its pretty obvious that hes supposed to get that trophy based on output and production.

The advanced stats suggest that Jokic was also the most productive player.

[Raps in 4]

Embiid got robbed

Pretty telling how everyone who is saying this don't even give reasons for why they think this.

I mean do we need to state the obvious? He plays on both ends unlike Jokic, first scoring leader for a C since Shaq, and he got out the first round.

A player can play both ends and still be less productive than a player who only plays one end. Generational offensive talents like Jokic, Curry, Luka, KD, etc. can make up for their defensive deficiencies with their historic offensive production.

And Jokic also got out of the first round when he had a healthy team. In fact, he got to the conference finals, something Embiid has never done.

[Fairview4Life]

It's not hard if you don't put your blinders on lol...

If Embiid plays the same amount of games it's INCREDIBLY likely he wins more games which defeats the purpose of pointing out who won more games. Unless you're a poster that believes Karl Malone was a greater scorer than Michael Jordan because he had more overall points without the context that Jordan played less games?! lol yeah it matters and yes it's flawed.

If they won at the same % that they did with Embiid playing over the course of the season, the Sixers would have won 3 more games (of the 14 games he missed). Coincidentally, that's the exact same number of extra wins the Nuggets would have won out of the 8 games Jokic missed, if they had won them at the same rate with Jokic playing during the rest of the year.

None of what you're saying dispels anything lol.

The fact is if they played the SAME amount of games...Joel would have MORE wins than Jokic for the same amount of games played (period) and therefore as I said this is a flawed "point" to try and make.

Then I think you are very close to getting the point of the thread.

[BelgradeNugget]

privelege all it is. reminds me when nash won over shaq and kobe

Wow, this is the best argument pro Embiid and against Jokic I heard all year. Jokic shouldn't win because he is white, Embiid should win because he is black. OK, fine

[cursedsportsfan]

The right player one mvp. get over it

[PhilBlackson]

If they won at the same % that they did with Embiid playing over the course of the season, the Sixers would have won 3 more games (of the 14 games he missed). Coincidentally, that's the exact same number of extra wins the Nuggets would have won out of the 8 games Jokic missed, if they had won them at the same rate with Jokic playing during the rest of the year.

None of what you're saying dispels anything lol.

The fact is if they played the SAME amount of games...Joel would have MORE wins than Jokic for the same amount of games played (period) and therefore as I said this is a flawed "point" to try and make.

Then I think you are very close to getting the point of the thread.

Quite the opposite lol you're missing what the OP "thinks" he's proving.

[Liam_Gallagher]

Read on Twitter

[3toheadmelo]

Pretty telling how everyone who is saying this don't even give reasons for why they think this.

I mean do we need to state the obvious? He plays on both ends unlike Jokic, first scoring leader for a C since Shaq, and he got out the first round.

A player can play both ends and still be less productive than a player who only plays one end. Generational offensive talents like Jokic, Curry, Luka, KD, etc. can make up for their defensive deficiencies with their historic offensive production.

And Jokic also got out of the first round when he had a healthy team. In fact, he got to the conference finals, something Embiid has never done.

Jokic’s offense is not good enough to outweigh Embiid offense and defense combined.

Jokic getting to the WCF in the bubble is irrelevant tbh

[Fairview4Life]

None of what you're saying dispels anything lol.

The fact is if they played the SAME amount of games...Joel would have MORE wins than Jokic for the same amount of games played (period) and therefore as I said this is a flawed "point" to try and make.

Then I think you are very close to getting the point of the thread.

Quite the opposite lol you're missing what the OP "thinks" he's proving.

True, maybe you aren't understanding. He is saying that team wins and losses isn't really a good indicator of who should win MVP.

[Raps in 4]

I mean do we need to state the obvious? He plays on both ends unlike Jokic, first scoring leader for a C since Shaq, and he got out the first round.

A player can play both ends and still be less productive than a player who only plays one end. Generational offensive talents like Jokic, Curry, Luka, KD, etc. can make up for their defensive deficiencies with their historic offensive production.

And Jokic also got out of the first round when he had a healthy team. In fact, he got to the conference finals, something Embiid has never done.

Jokic’s offense is not good enough to outweigh Embiid offense and defense combined.

Jokic getting to the WCF in the bubble is irrelevant tbh

Of course the bubble run didn't count. How convenient.

[codydaze]

Embiid got robbed

Pretty telling how everyone who is saying this don't even give reasons for why they think this.

I mean do we need to state the obvious? He plays on both ends unlike Jokic, first scoring leader for a C since Shaq, and he got out the first round.

Denver was missing both their second and third best player. It's going to be tough for anyone in the league to get past the Warriors with Aaron Gordon as your second best player. Without Jokic, that team is not even in the play in which is pretty much the definition of being most valuable.

[3toheadmelo]

A player can play both ends and still be less productive than a player who only plays one end. Generational offensive talents like Jokic, Curry, Luka, KD, etc. can make up for their defensive deficiencies with their historic offensive production.

And Jokic also got out of the first round when he had a healthy team. In fact, he got to the conference finals, something Embiid has never done.

Jokic’s offense is not good enough to outweigh Embiid offense and defense combined.

Jokic getting to the WCF in the bubble is irrelevant tbh

Of course the bubble run didn't count. How convenient.

I mean if the bubble is all you got.. your argument is pretty weak

[3toheadmelo]

Pretty telling how everyone who is saying this don't even give reasons for why they think this.

I mean do we need to state the obvious? He plays on both ends unlike Jokic, first scoring leader for a C since Shaq, and he got out the first round.

Denver was missing both their second and third best player. It's going to be tough for anyone in the league to get past the Warriors with Aaron Gordon as your second best player. Without Jokic, that team is not even in the play in which is pretty much the definition of being most valuable.

Sixers were about to get swept by the Heat without Embiid though. They looked like a play in team. Now he’s completely changed the narrative.

[PhilBlackson]

Then I think you are very close to getting the point of the thread.

Quite the opposite lol you're missing what the OP "thinks" he's proving.

True, maybe you aren't understanding. He is saying that team wins and losses isn't really a good indicator of who should win MVP.

What lol not once was that stated, that's YOUR own conclusion. We both know that this is in regards to the never ending debate on here of Jokic vs Embiid. He starts by pointing out how many overall wins the team has but then attempts to narrow down to those in which those players participated in. This was clearly an attempt to show that Jokic "also won more games" BUT as I've said it's flawed to simply say "X" player "won more games that he played in" when he literally did actually play in more games and had all things been equal, wouldn't have.