If the Celtics win the champ this year, does Danny Ainge deserve the most credit?

[LewisnotMiller]

Ainge deserves some credit for this team. As does Stevens, Ime, the players, other coaches, front office, training staff.

But ultimately it would all come down to the fans.

*nods solemnly*

[Crunch 99]

Imho from not a Celtics fan:

1. Ainge
2. Udoka
3. Stevens

In addition, the first signing of Horford, the free agent signing of Hayward and trade for Kyrie Irving were brilliant moves on paper, lauded by nearly everyone at the time, but just didn't work out for reasons of Hayward freak injury along with Irving's personality quirks and missing games problem that people didn't really know about then. Both Hayward and Irving missed the entire 2018 playoffs.

Too bad my Jazz are getting CEO Ainge in his grandparent years after a heart attack, with Ainge saying he wants to slow down, with the Jazz stripped of draft picks for multiple years and very little trade flexibility. GM Stevens walked in to a gold mine compared to what Danny Ainge inherited with the Jazz, but maybe grandpa Ainge can still somehow manage to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

This article below says Ainge planned to work with Stevens "during a transition period" after he announced he was stepping down. The Celtics traded for Horford 16 days after Ainge announced he was stepping down and they hired Udoka 21 days after Ainge stepped down. It is probably reasonable to wonder whether Ainge also signed off on Udoka, who has turned out to be great, and whether Ainge approved of the trade to re-acquire Horford. But even if Ainge had zero to do with approving of Udoka or Horford, he had way more hits than misses compared to your average GM imo, along with a record of preserving franchise flexibility to change up the roster.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/danny-ainge-resigns-as-celtics-president-of-basketball-operations-brad-stevens-to-move-up/ar-AAKDoR2

[Doctor MJ]

Tatum, Brown, Smart, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, Pritchard were all drafted by him.

Horford and Theis played for the Celtics when Ainge was the GM too (even though they played for other teams for a short period after, they rejoined the team) - Ainge seems knows best what players fit best with the roster.

I don't know if I think it makes sense to treat the credit like a zero sum thing here.

Ainge deserves credit for great drafting, some great player moves, and hiring Stevens as coach.

Stevens deserves credit for firing himself as coach in favor of someone who could better reach the team, and for abandoning Ainge's run of experiments with glamorous point guards who can't play D while also making shrewd moves to acquire Horford (back, because Ainge let him go before) & White.

Udoka deserves credit for transforming this team into something it's never been before with his coaching.

All 3 of these guys should be getting a lot of praise for what's going on in Boston right now.

[HoopsterJones]

Credit goes to the coaches, players and the current front office that brought back Horford, Theis, and traded for Derrick White. Ainge gets residual kudos for putting the foundation of the team together.

[Harry Garris]

He deserves some but I think the current coach did more to help the team. There's no chance this Celtics roster was competing for a championship if Udoka didn't spend the first half of the season helping them to unlearn bad habits and play as a more cohesive team - their late game offense was particularly awful and Udoka fixed that.

[Blame Rasho]

Ummm it goes to the players for working hard first and foremost.

[myronbolitar]

Danny Ainge is massively, massively under-appreciated by this board and NBA fans in general.

Overall, the job he did with the Celtics was masterful. He had a rocky few years post-Kyrie trade (cap management, a couple draft picks, etc) but didn't mess up anything big, when many were calling for him to break up the core so the Celtics could trade for some vet. The job he did post-Pierce/KG trade all the way to the Kyrie deal (about 4 years) was just about perfect, and that's to say nothing of turning over a busted Celtics roster when he took over in '03 into a behemoth in '07.

The Hayward injury was absolutely huge for everything they wanted to do. It changed everything, and the effects of it aren't fully understood by most fans. He was the *perfect* player to not only add to Horford/Kyrie, but also bridge the gap to the next generation, with Brown, Tatum, Smart, Rozier, etc. coming up.

Theo Epstein took over as Red Sox GM before '03, but when the Sox finally won in '04, many fans gave some credit to Dan Duquette for bringing in many of the cornerstones of that squad (Pedro, Manny, Varitek, Nomar, etc.) and Ainge deserves the same. Not all the credit, but absolutely some.

[hugepatsfan]

Credit should mostly go to the players and coaches that are getting it done.

But yeah, Ange would deserve lots of credit for building the team. They play 9 guys:

Smart / White
Brown / Pritchard
Tatum
Horford / G Williams
R Williams / Theis

6 of them were Ainge draft picks (Smart, Brown, Pritchard, Tatum, G Williams, R WIlliams). 2 of them were guys Ainge originally brought in (Horford, Theis). Now, he did decide to let them go while Stevens brought them back so some credit has to be given to Stevens for recognizing that they fit well enough to keep, whereas Ainge didn't.

I think Stevens has done a good job taking what was in place and tinkering with it, but he was taking over for a pretty well stocked team talent wise. I think he always had a good vision for how he wanted to play and he's been a little more focused on building a team to play that way vs just collecting talent like Ainge was. I think Stevens' time as a coach has led to a little better alignment between the GM/coach, same way Udoka's playing experience helps align the players/coaches. It helps when you have two different job roles that interact with each other understand where the other is coming from.

There was an insider article on how even though Josh Richardson had better first half numbers than Derrick White, their play styles are different. White is much quicker with the ball and it's lead to more open shots while he's out there because he keeps the flow of the offense going better. And basically that was something that Udoka and Stevens discussed when evaluating the deal. I think there seems to be a good Xs and Os focus for them in personnel now which comes from having a coaching background in the GM office.

[Fencer reregistered]

Ainge clearly deserves much more roster-building credit than Stevens. He drafted most of them, and 2 of Stevens' 3 additions are guys Danny previously signed as FAs. And the drafting was non-trivial. Tatum was a contrarian #1 pick (ignoring the machinations of trading down to draft the guy he wanted anyway, while also getting a late lottery pick he didn't do much with.) Brown was a contrarian #3 pick. Smart wasn't as contrarian, but wasn't totally obvious either. The three guys in the 20s were of course not obvious (if they had been they would have gone sooner).

Theis was originally a UDFA find too; I think he was DPOY in the second-best league in Germany, which is a pretty obscure pedigree.

[Lockdown504090]

idk, ainge had the assets to make a super team and failed to do so, you could argue if he was bettter at the end they would have a dynasty.

[NYPiston]

The most credit goes to... somebody who's no longer with the team.

Well, he built the majority of the team so why wouldn't he get a lot of the credit?
Not the "most" credit but a lot of it I'd say.

[Infinite Llamas]

Ainge had his share of misses too. If Ainge didn’t want to roll with Bradley and Isaiah long term than Dejounte was the right pick in 2016 but Ainge drafted Yabusele and Zizic and stashed them away. James Young was a major miss too. Guys like RJ Hunter and Jujuan Johnson and maybe even Romeo just didn’t pan out to much. Rozier was lost for nothing. Hayward as well.

Ainge did a lot of things right but he had a hard time finding the right balance of players post KG Celtics. The Isaiah teams fought hard but didn’t have enough talent. The Kyrie Celtics were a locker room mess and after losing in the playoffs last year, it was obvious they needed a new direction. They bought into Ime and brought back valuable vets like Al and Theis and this is the most well oiled the team has looked since 2010. So yeah, Ainge gets a lot of credit for finding what worked, but the timeline of his vision just didn’t really work out.

[Jadoogar]

Tatum, Brown, Smart, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, Pritchard were all drafted by him.

Horford and Theis played for the Celtics when Ainge was the GM too (even though they played for other teams for a short period after, they rejoined the team) - Ainge seems knows best what players fit best with the roster.

I don't know if I think it makes sense to treat the credit like a zero sum thing here.

Ainge deserves credit for great drafting, some great player moves, and hiring Stevens as coach.

Stevens deserves credit for firing himself as coach in favor of someone who could better reach the team, and for abandoning Ainge's run of experiments with glamorous point guards who can't play D while also making shrewd moves to acquire Horford (back, because Ainge let him go before) & White.

Udoka deserves credit for transforming this team into something it's never been before with his coaching.

All 3 of these guys should be getting a lot of praise for what's going on in Boston right now.

This is obviously the right answer.
I never understood the hate Ainge got. People were mad that he didn't get full value of the picks he fleeced from Brooklyn. But he walked out of those picks with Tatum (potential superstar), Brown (allstar), Smart and both williams (elite role players). Even when you include the misses, that's a very good draft record. He even traded a pick for Kyrie (a fantastic move that didn't work out due to circumstances out Ainge's control). The Hayward signing was a massive win at the time and was derailed before it even got a chance to get going.

Top 5 executive imo.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Credit should mostly go to the players and coaches that are getting it done.

As a few others have noted... and as EVERYBODY should have instantly noted.

It's the players. It's always the players.

The day that we celebrate 60+ year old front office guys eating chipotle burritos in the stands... or out-of-shape guys yelling from the sidelines... over the guys actually playing the actual games... is the day I stop watching the NBA.

[Myth]

If Celtics win the championship, I think everybody will owe Daryl Morey an apology.

[Jadoogar]

idk, ainge had the assets to make a super team and failed to do so, you could argue if he was bettter at the end they would have a dynasty.

Ainge's draft history post KG/Pierce trade (btw an all time lopsided trade):
2014 - Marcus Smart (6), James Young (17)
2015 - Terry Rozier (16), RJ Hunter (28)
2016 - Jaylen Brown (3), Yabusele (23), Zizic (23)
2017 - Jayson Tatum (3, extremely good trade to get the guy he wanted and a Kings' pick)
2018 - Robert Williams (27, home run)
2019 - Langford (14), Grant Williams (22)
2020 - Payton Prichard (26)

It's notoriously hard to hit on picks in the teens and 20s. Overall this looks like a really good draft record.
You could argue he had a super team with Kyrie and Hayward that failed due to circumstances outside his control (injuries, mental problems).

[boomershadow]

Ainge deserves credit, but let's not forget that the Celtics made some moves like bringing in Derrick White and trading away Kemba that have definitely improved the team from last year but weren't grand slam winning trades and probably wouldn't have been done with Ainge still at the helm.

[Johnny Bball]

Lol no. Danny Ainge could never build a team. Steven's would have finished what Ainge couldn't do.

[SF_Warriors]

Ainge deserves credit for drafting most of the core, and for stepping down at the right time. Obviously Udoka deserves a lot of credit as well.Stevens I'm a bit bullish on his actual impact from the FO. Horford has been an excellent acquisition but I need to see more from BS as an exec before I can give him the same type of credit than Ainge and Udoka. Stevens did help a lot of these young guys develop and was a solid coach, but as an FO i'm still unsure of yet.

[SuperDeluxe]

It'd be a tossup between Ainge and this guy: