JJ Redick speaks the Truth - 80/90s NBA vs Today

[An Unbiased Fan]

I've been watching since the 80s, and the only real difference is how refs allow carrying since the 90s and don't allow perimeter defense since the early 10s. I care more about what Ja Rule thinks than JJ Redick.

[azcatz11]

I just don't understand why dude keeps going out of his way to repeatedly disrespect the people who paved the way for him to become a millionaire basketball player and even be on TV talking about the sport. Weird fight to pick and very off-putting in my opinion.

Unfortunately espn has ruined him

[SSUBluesman]

OP should have waited a few hours for all the Boomers to be tucked into bed before starting this thread.

[Dupp]

It is funny that people think basketball is the only sport in history where the players haven’t got significantly better over time.

[BernteB]

Drop Ultimate Warrior, Mr Perfect or Demolition in todays weak sauce wrestling and it would end up in a blood bath.

underrated post!

[CIN-C-STAR]

JJ is just stanning his era, much like the old guys he picks fights with for clicks stan theirs. Flip side of the same coin.

I do find it hilarious how people always jump in and claim that "evolution" and "genetics" prove that this era is better than the 90s though
People wanna believe so bad that their era is the best they'll tell themselves anything even if they've no real clue how genetics or evolution work.

[AbeVigodaLive]

How did he get from complaining incessantly and hunting for calls to 75 - 72 scores?

I don't see how those are directly related.

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Isn't there a happy medium where we can (1) give credit for the free-flowing way the game is played today with amazing athletes and ungodly shooting ... AND (2) discredit the guys who do so much complaining and hunting for calls that it takes away from some of the entertainment?

Both things can be true.

[CIN-C-STAR]

It is funny that people think basketball is the only sport in history where the players haven’t got significantly better over time.

Greatness and being the "best" is usually defined by how much you dominated the competition in your time, so by that definition there's no logical reason to think that players of each successive generation will be better than previous generations.
For example, Comaneci is still considered the best female gymnast of all time by many, Willie Mays, Ted Williams and Babe Ruth are still considered 3 of the greatest baseball players ever, Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson two of the greatest boxers ever, etc. Others have entered the conversation for sure, but it's not like those aforementioned athletes have become after thoughts because everyone that came after them was better.
I'm guessing you are making the "time machine" argument, that if you put a player in any sport from today in a time machine they would dominate in previous eras. But that is, for one, highly speculative and untestable, and for two, they would have obvious advantages that players in previous generations didn't have that are not intrinsic to their innate ability, skill or athleticism (like access to better trainers and doctors).
Further, that's like saying your old high school science teacher was smarter and a better scientist than Isaac Newton, because if you took him back in a time machine he would know a lot more. Do you really believe that though?
Your old HS teacher is just standing on the shoulders of the giants before them, like Newton, who discovered things about the world that no one before had known. Is just learning those same things from a book after someone else discovered them an act of brilliance of the same magnitude?
For me the answer is a resounding no.
Players today may have more moves, but all most of them did was copy the moves from the legends of the game before them that invented them and utilized them in ways never seen before. Players today are just learning them from professional trainers who have broken them down on film and studied and analyzed them in order to help others replicate them. There is nothing revolutionary or particularly brilliant about that imo, though they obviously get credit for the work ethic required to copy those that came before them.

[Dupp]

It is funny that people think basketball is the only sport in history where the players haven’t got significantly better over time.

Greatness and being the "best" is usually defined by how much you dominated the competition in your time, so by that definition there's no logical reason to think that players of each successive generation will be better than previous generations.
For example, Comaneci is still considered the best female gymnast of all time by many, Willie Mays, Ted Williams and Babe Ruth are still considered 3 of the greatest baseball players ever, Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson two of the greatest boxers ever, etc. Others have entered the conversation for sure, but it's not like those aforementioned athletes have become after thoughts because everyone that came after them was better.
I'm guessing you are making the "time machine" argument, that if you put a player in any sport from today in a time machine they would dominate in previous eras. But that is, for one, highly speculative and untestable, and for two, they would have obvious advantages that players in previous generations didn't have that are not intrinsic to their innate ability, skill or athleticism (like access to better trainers and doctors).
Further, that's like saying your old high school science teacher was smarter and a better scientist than Isaac Newton, because if you took him back in a time machine he would know a lot more. Do you really believe that though?
Your old HS teacher is just standing on the shoulders of the giants before them, like Newton, who discovered things about the world that no one before had known. Is just learning those same things from a book after someone else discovered them an act of brilliance of the same magnitude?
For me the answer is a resounding no.
Players today may have more moves, but all most of them did was copy the moves from the legends of the game before them that invented them and utilized them in ways never seen before. Players today are just learning them from professional trainers who have broken them down on film and studied and analyzed them in order to help others replicate them. There is nothing revolutionary or particularly brilliant about that imo, though they obviously get credit for the work ethic required to copy those that came before them.

I’m not talking about goat debate I’m talking the league as a whole.

[Curmudgeon]

It's not about the players. In the 80s and 90s it was a different game. The rules were different, and games were officiated differently.

[The Rebel]

It is funny that people think basketball is the only sport in history where the players haven’t got significantly better over time.

How many of those sports have had to change multiple rules because the players could no longer follow those rules due to lack of skills?

[lambchop]

For example. Drop any of these athletes in their respective sport in the 80s or 90s and everyone will think their Gods.
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Patrick Mahomes, Tyson Fury, George St. Pierre, Connor McGregor, Kumaru Usman, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, List goes on.

But if you do the same for the NBA, with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kyrie, etc, for some reason they can't play in the 80s or 90s.

I'm not sure if any of those other sports has had the massive rule changes that the NBA has had. Some of the guys you named would need a while, maybe even a full season of video study so that they work on their game in the offseason in order to adapt to the rules. If you take Harden's main moves euro step (would be a travel), step back (his step back is already essentially a travel now and definitely would be one then), crossovers (probably gets called for carrying). Those are his go to moves. He would have to completely change his style of play.

Durant also carries the ball a lot and as we saw against Boston if defenses are allowed to be physical with him his impact is small. Therefore, I believe handchecking would limit him. LBJ would definitely have issues with traveling as well, but he is very strong and could also get points in the post.

These guys are all time greats and would eventually figure it out, but I really don't see how they can simply be inserted into the 80s and have such a huge impact simply due to the rules.

[First Step]

I don't think that much has changed since the 80s and 90s. Stars of that era would still be stars today, and vice versa. JJ Redick is a modern day Tim Legler.

[Saberestar]

Those who followed the NBA 20/30+ years ago now that what's played now, rules-wise, is a vastly different sport.

That, alone and by itself, is a pretty convincing argument.

Absolutely.

Nowadays there are times when I don't know if I am watching an NBA game or a **** WWF show.

[AbeVigodaLive]

It is funny that people think basketball is the only sport in history where the players haven’t got significantly better over time.

How many of those sports have had to change multiple rules because the players could no longer follow those rules due to lack of skills?

Was it really because of a lack of skill though? Are you suggesting that Greg Kite is THAT much more skilled than Mike Muscala?

The NFL in 2022 is significantly different than the NFL in 1987... in large part because of rules.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't think that much has changed since the 80s and 90s. Stars of that era would still be stars today, and vice versa. JJ Redick is a modern day Tim Legler.

Yes, but they would be stars in different games. Imagine a league with hand checking and no flagrant fouls, no zone defenses, with palming prohibited, a league with players like Jeff Ruland, Rick Mahorn and Moses Malone who would be happy to take your head off when you went down the lane. Imagine a league in which the three point shot was viewed as a fad and coaches discouraged players from taking it.

Those are just some of the differences. It's like comparing players in baseball's dead ball era with players who came after 1921.

[Quattro]

I do think the game was a LOT more physical back then but I also think it’s silly to think that guys like lebron and Durant wouldn’t be able to adapt their games to the era and be successful.

[Raps in 4]

JJ Redick on Get Up calling out Old timers narrative on today's players.

Watch on YouTube

Summary:
JJ was annoyed about NBA players today being inferior to the nostalgic standard set by the media about 80 and 90's players/NBA.

Although the segment is mostly about players complaining, JJ did mention many arguments made by the current media, many of whom covered 80s and 90s NBA.


I totally agree with JJ. Only in the NBA, no other sport where 80 and 90s will always be better than current generation, like evolution doesn't matter.

For example. Drop any of these athletes in their respective sport in the 80s or 90s and everyone will think their Gods.
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Patrick Mahomes, Tyson Fury, George St. Pierre, Connor McGregor, Kumaru Usman, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, List goes on.

But if you do the same for the NBA, with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kyrie, etc, for some reason they can't play in the 80s or 90s.

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

Athletes are way fitter today than in past generations due to advances in sports and nutrition sciences. Medical procedures for injuries have also improved.

[The Rebel]

JJ Redick on Get Up calling out Old timers narrative on today's players.

Watch on YouTube

Summary:
JJ was annoyed about NBA players today being inferior to the nostalgic standard set by the media about 80 and 90's players/NBA.

Although the segment is mostly about players complaining, JJ did mention many arguments made by the current media, many of whom covered 80s and 90s NBA.


I totally agree with JJ. Only in the NBA, no other sport where 80 and 90s will always be better than current generation, like evolution doesn't matter.

For example. Drop any of these athletes in their respective sport in the 80s or 90s and everyone will think their Gods.
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Patrick Mahomes, Tyson Fury, George St. Pierre, Connor McGregor, Kumaru Usman, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, List goes on.

But if you do the same for the NBA, with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kyrie, etc, for some reason they can't play in the 80s or 90s.

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

Athletes are way fitter today than in past generations due to advances in sports and nutrition sciences. Medical procedures for injuries have also improved.

Medicine has improved, but you are going to have to explain way fitter when guys are crying about playing 65 games 30 mpg when a majority of players used to be able to play 82 games and 40 mpg.

[First Step]

I don't think that much has changed since the 80s and 90s. Stars of that era would still be stars today, and vice versa. JJ Redick is a modern day Tim Legler.

Yes, but they would be stars in different games. Imagine a league with hand checking and no flagrant fouls, no zone defenses, with palming prohibited, a league with players like Jeff Ruland, Rick Mahorn and Moses Malone who would be happy to take hour head off when you went down the lane. Imagine a league in which the three point shot was viewed as a fad and coaches discouraged players from taking it.

Those are just some of the differences. It's like comparing players in baseball's dead ball era with players who came after 1921.

I was referring to speed, athleticism, etc over 20-30 years. Evolution takes a lot longer than that. But I recognize your point on the rule changes. However, the game is still similar in more ways, and if you drop a prime Shaq, or Kareem in today's game they would adjust just fine. Likewise, if you put KD in the 80s, he would be a superstar.