Jordan’s teams were shockingly healthy

[bearadonisdna]

Also guys are constantly vacuum sealed in airplanes and decompressing on court or on field .
Then rip.
It’s better when you take team bus to local rival etc

[HomoSapien]

Jordan played through a lot of injuries. He was pretty known for not advertising his injuries, because he didn’t want guys to try and take advantage of that or purposely go out of their way to hit a sore knee or whatever. Pretty amazing that he was able to play 82 games his final season with the Wizards too.

The Bulls were also one of the first, if not first, teams in the league to do yoga and mindfulness. I suspect that helped keep these guys healthy as well.

[lessthanjake]

Dennis Rodman only played 64 games for the 72-10 Bulls in 1995-96.
Dennis Rodman only played 55 games for the 69-13 Bulls in 1996-97.
Toni Kukoc only played 57 games for the 69-13 Bulls in 1996-97.
Scottie Pippen only played 44 games for the 62-20 Bulls in 1997-98.
Luc Longley only played 62, 59 and 58 games in his 3-Peat.

In response to this and some other similar posts talking about regular season games, I’m talking about missing playoff games. It’s not that the Bulls players never missed time. It’s that they were lucky enough to essentially never miss time in the playoffs. And that’s obviously when it matters for purposes of winning titles.

[Pennebaker]

Yeah they were. Pippen was always available. Except for that one game with the migraine, but other than that he was always available.

Jordan never had a situation with Pippen and Grant where those two were injured and he was left to battle in the finals by himself.

[lessthanjake]

Scottie Pippen was literally useless and limping up and down as a decoy in the end of the last Jazz series after missing half the regular season. He was 2/16 in game 5, and scored 8 points in 25 minutes in the defining game.

Rodman played 64 and 55 games his first two seasons there.

I think it's more that dudes didn't sit out every other game with a hang nail like guys do now. Jordan set the tone. The fact that he was always in the lineup makes it so bums don't sit out.

Regarding Pippen, that was really mostly just at the very end of that series, where he was a decoy in limited time in one game. It’s notable, but also worth noting that the Bulls were massively outscored in the minutes Pippen didn’t play in that deciding game. They won by dominating the minutes Pippen played—demonstrating pretty aptly how significant it would’ve been if he’d ever actually missed games. And when your worst health issue in 6 years is a guy only playing 25 minutes in one game, then it demonstrates the team’s immense overall health.

[og15]

Health is certainly part of winning

Across all sports there definitely seems to be a lot more injuries than there used to be. Not even factoring in load management issues but the major issues where guys just aren't going to be playing.

IMO the best explanation is specialization. If you train for a limited set of motions than you can get very strong in doing those motions but relatively weak/fragile when anything goes wrong. The classic old-school star jock who played football, basketball and baseball through HS (or just several different sports in general) IMO was less likely to severely injure themselves when they land slightly wrong or slip on a wet floor.

Sports careers are longer than ever. Are there more injuries, or are guys more cautious with nagging and smaller injuries than ever before?

My guess is:

1. Each generation advancements in all sports, whether arms for pitchers or knees for basketball, places more strain on the human body.
2. Each generation athletes are getting paid a lot more which make athletes much more risk adverse about playing through injuries.

For #2, at least in the NBA, many times it's the teams more than some players who are trying to hold guys out

[sp6r=underrated]

Health is certainly part of winning

Sports careers are longer than ever. Are there more injuries, or are guys more cautious with nagging and smaller injuries than ever before?

My guess is:

1. Each generation advancements in all sports, whether arms for pitchers or knees for basketball, places more strain on the human body.
2. Each generation athletes are getting paid a lot more which make athletes much more risk adverse about playing through injuries.

For #2, at least in the NBA, many times it's the teams more than some players who are trying to hold guys out

great point.

[ninjamilk23]

As others have mentioned, I remember Pippen and Rodman being hurt off and on during their last couple years with Jordan.

But yeah, the 90s in general didn't have as many injury issues as we see today. I know it sounds old at this point, but the earlier generations were just tougher (both mentally and physically) than the modern ones.

Another factor is that players back then weren't getting these ridiculous amounts of money either, so it kept everyone hungry and less likely to sit out games for minor injuries.

Do you think 20 years from now the talent in NBA would only be comparable to elementary basketball back in 60s? I mean the talent just keeps getting worse and worse each era.

I bet basketball players in 1920s and 1930s were so much better than the 1980s and 1990s because the earlier generations were just tougher both mentally and physically.

[LewisnotMiller]

Across all sports there definitely seems to be a lot more injuries than there used to be. Not even factoring in load management issues but the major issues where guys just aren't going to be playing.

IMO the best explanation is specialization. If you train for a limited set of motions than you can get very strong in doing those motions but relatively weak/fragile when anything goes wrong. The classic old-school star jock who played football, basketball and baseball through HS (or just several different sports in general) IMO was less likely to severely injure themselves when they land slightly wrong or slip on a wet floor.

I always figured specialisation was part of it, but I think training has reached a point where that is more actively mitigated against than it was in the 90s and 00s.

I also figure that whilst athletes are becoming bigger, stronger and faster, the joints and other connective structures of the body are pretty much unchanged. That's purely me thinking it through, so fair chance that's rubbish, but there it is...

[LewisnotMiller]

As others have mentioned, I remember Pippen and Rodman being hurt off and on during their last couple years with Jordan.

But yeah, the 90s in general didn't have as many injury issues as we see today. I know it sounds old at this point, but the earlier generations were just tougher (both mentally and physically) than the modern ones.

Another factor is that players back then weren't getting these ridiculous amounts of money either, so it kept everyone hungry and less likely to sit out games for minor injuries.

Do you think 20 years from now the talent in NBA would only be comparable to elementary basketball back in 60s? I mean the talent just keeps getting worse and worse each era.

I bet basketball players in 1920s and 1930s were so much better than the 1980s and 1990s because the earlier generations were just tougher both mentally and physically.

They were nothing compared to the Viking and Crusader basketball teams back in the day. Now THEY were tough...

[NO-KG-AI]

Across all sports there definitely seems to be a lot more injuries than there used to be. Not even factoring in load management issues but the major issues where guys just aren't going to be playing.

IMO the best explanation is specialization. If you train for a limited set of motions than you can get very strong in doing those motions but relatively weak/fragile when anything goes wrong. The classic old-school star jock who played football, basketball and baseball through HS (or just several different sports in general) IMO was less likely to severely injure themselves when they land slightly wrong or slip on a wet floor.

I always figured specialisation was part of it, but I think training has reached a point where that is more actively mitigated against than it was in the 90s and 00s.

I also figure that whilst athletes are becoming bigger, stronger and faster, the joints and other connective structures of the body are pretty much unchanged. That's purely me thinking it through, so fair chance that's rubbish, but there it is...

I think the average height and weight are generally down the past few seasons as teams go smaller, and there is really no evidence that the athletes are so much better that it's just too much for their bodies to handle. The lower end of benches might be more athletic on average, but the upper echelons has always had tremendous athletes. Also, you absolutely can strengthen tendons, ligaments, and connective tissue.

For instance, aside from just someone like MJ... Shaq, Hakeem, and David Robinson would all be the best physical specimen at the 5 position in the league if they came in today.

Also it doesn't seem like athleticism= more injuries. There always seems to be a lot of stuff said that isn't backed up by data. To me the most ridiculous physical specimens to ever play all had pretty long and from anywhere to fairly healthy to VERY healthy careers, with a lot of longevity.

I still think teams, players, and doctors just are a lot more cautious and more concerned with extending guys careers where they can keep playing late into their 30's, where guys would play through a lot of stuff that ended up shortening careers, or causing them to break down and decline much sooner.

I honestly think guys who don't strength train and build strong physical bases are more prone to injury than guys who are just very athletic.

[ninjamilk23]

As others have mentioned, I remember Pippen and Rodman being hurt off and on during their last couple years with Jordan.

But yeah, the 90s in general didn't have as many injury issues as we see today. I know it sounds old at this point, but the earlier generations were just tougher (both mentally and physically) than the modern ones.

Another factor is that players back then weren't getting these ridiculous amounts of money either, so it kept everyone hungry and less likely to sit out games for minor injuries.

Do you think 20 years from now the talent in NBA would only be comparable to elementary basketball back in 60s? I mean the talent just keeps getting worse and worse each era.

I bet basketball players in 1920s and 1930s were so much better than the 1980s and 1990s because the earlier generations were just tougher both mentally and physically.

They were nothing compared to the Viking and Crusader basketball teams back in the day. Now THEY were tough...

I don't think anyone will disagree with your statement. Vikings and Crusader were definitely the older era so it makes sense that they are better.

[Pennebaker]

Does this support the idea that they may have used steroids or PEDs for recovery? They weren't testing for that in a comprehensive way back then.

We hear about Michael Jordan famously only requiring 3 hours of sleep a night - he stayed up smoking cigars and playing cards - and yet every game he's full blast 100% Michael Jordan motor. How was that possible? Nobody knew.

Players today seem to miss more games - needing a longer time for recovery - and modern PED testing is more comprehensive and more frequent.

[dhsilv2]

The nba is just more physically taxing on the body than it used to be. But yes, the bulls had good luck with health, but as other have pointed out many of the bulls players were playing through injuries. But again, it was easier to do that back then. 98 Pippen couldn't have stayed on the floor in today's game, but back then with the slow pace, smaller defensive roles, effectively a small half court, etc etc it was just easier.

[NO-KG-AI]

Does this support the idea that they may have used steroids or PEDs for recovery? They weren't testing for that in a comprehensive way back then.

We hear about Michael Jordan famously only requiring 3 hours of sleep a night - he stayed up smoking cigars and playing cards - and yet every game he's full blast 100% Michael Jordan motor. How was that possible? Nobody knew.

Players today seem to miss more games - needing a longer time for recovery - and modern PED testing is more comprehensive and more frequent.

PED testing isn't comprehensive or frequent at all LMAO. PED testing in the NBA is a complete joke, it's just an idiot test to see if you're dumb enough to get caught even though you know it's coming.

[hippesthippo]

Across all sports there definitely seems to be a lot more injuries than there used to be. Not even factoring in load management issues but the major issues where guys just aren't going to be playing.

IMO the best explanation is specialization. If you train for a limited set of motions than you can get very strong in doing those motions but relatively weak/fragile when anything goes wrong. The classic old-school star jock who played football, basketball and baseball through HS (or just several different sports in general) IMO was less likely to severely injure themselves when they land slightly wrong or slip on a wet floor.

I always figured specialisation was part of it, but I think training has reached a point where that is more actively mitigated against than it was in the 90s and 00s.

I also figure that whilst athletes are becoming bigger, stronger and faster, the joints and other connective structures of the body are pretty much unchanged. That's purely me thinking it through, so fair chance that's rubbish, but there it is...

Nah, it's true. Look at pitching in baseball for example. Fastballs literally max out a hair over 100mph. The human arm can't produce any more torque without falling apart. Tommy John surgery is almost common these days.

[TravisScott55]

Games back then were much slower, guys didn't get injured as often. It was an old mans league back then.

[wickywack]

There are two somewhat competing hypotheses here that ought to be measurable:

(1) Jordan's Bulls were healthy compared to other teams in the 90s.
(2) Teams in the 90s were healthy compared to today.

I don't have the data in front of me. For all I know, both are true. Or neither are true.

Anecdotally, it does seem that the Bulls were pretty healthy come playoff time. On the other hand, I don't really recall championships altered by injury in that era either. Could be my rusty memory. Perhaps we'll forget the injured teams of today too.

[dhsilv2]

Worth noting the bulls were also one of the slower paced teams in the 90's.

[CobraCommander]

Dennis Rodman only played 64 games for the 72-10 Bulls in 1995-96.
Dennis Rodman only played 55 games for the 69-13 Bulls in 1996-97.
Scottie Pippen only played 44 games for the 62-20 Bulls in 1997-98.
Luc Longley only played 62, 59 and 58 games in his 3-Peat.

The real topic should be : Jordan was shockingly healthy

Like we're literally talking about Andrew Bogut being injured compared to Scottie Pippen

Flu game....Jordan played even when he had a prehistoric COVID

Spoiler:

never forget ....we got the name of these from that - totally worth it

COVID or the flu .....or food poisoning brought on by pizza....never mind how disgusting the thought of what someone put on the pizza to give jordan the “flu”