Better Player Right Now: Stephen Curry or Jokic

[Peregrine01]

Curry.

They are both insanely efficient scorers, and great playmakers.

But, as a guard, it's harder to get the ball out of Curry's hands, which increases his level of control over the game.

And he's more impactful when he gets trapped, because it happens further away from the basket, which creates more space in a 4-on-3 going downhill. When teams double Jokic, the ball usually goes away from the basket.

Finally, though he's a good defender in the regular season, Jokic does struggle defending against the league's best guards in the playoffs. They can target him in the pick-and-roll, which hurts his defensive impact and compromises the Nuggets' defense. Steph is no longer (if he ever has been) a liability of that sort.

Jokic does play a more important defensive position. But Curry is flanked by good to great defensive players, including the defensive GOAT of this era. Jokic is playing with Barton and Monte Morris so I think he deserves a little benefit of the doubt for this team getting torched by the Warriors, who have the best guard line-up on offense.

[ShootersShoot]

I'd say jokic at the moment..his impact stats are insane and he out measures steph in many of those categories for the past year. Jokic can also be given a bigger workload than steph, especially in the RS. But that doesnt take away from steph, who I would go into battle with any day of the week.

Just for fun, imagine this lineup:
Jokic
Green
Wiggins
Klay
Poole

That team would be flat out impossible to guard and would still be pretty good defensively

[Sgt Major]

Jokic never had an All-Star teammate even close to his prime. Give him at least one of those and see what happens.

[ShootersShoot]

Curry.

They are both insanely efficient scorers, and great playmakers.

But, as a guard, it's harder to get the ball out of Curry's hands, which increases his level of control over the game.

And he's more impactful when he gets trapped, because it happens further away from the basket, which creates more space in a 4-on-3 going downhill. When teams double Jokic, the ball usually goes away from the basket.

Finally, though he's a good defender in the regular season, Jokic does struggle defending against the league's best guards in the playoffs. They can target him in the pick-and-roll, which hurts his defensive impact and compromises the Nuggets' defense. Steph is no longer (if he ever has been) a liability of that sort.

Jokic does play a more important defensive position. But Curry is flanked by good to great defensive players, including the defensive GOAT of this era. Jokic is playing with Barton and Monte Morris so I think he deserves a little benefit of the doubt for this team getting torched by the Warriors, who have the best guard line-up on offense.

If we put draymond and wiggins next to jokic, I'd wager a lot of his defensive deficiencies would be masked as well even though he plays center.

[Birdon]

The one who won another ring

[Freighttrain]

If I have a team without much talent then it's Jokic easily as he's the better floor raiser and could drag virtually any team to the playoffs (while Curry doesn't have the physical or mental makeup to do so)...

Didn't Curry carry the Warriors just last season to the play-in or am I dreaming?

And Jokic carried the Nuggets to...

OP is claiming Curry "doesn't have the physical" or even more ludicrous "mental makeup to do so". I am not stating that Jokic didn't.

[PistolPeteJR]

Biggest difference was just games played, Jokic was healthier...if that's why you rank Jokic over Curry, that's fair. But that'd be the argument there.

Well for starters, Curry had a better cast last year than Jokic had this year. Also, availability IS a factor. And finally, Jokic played like an MVP from the get-go. Last year, Curry did so in the second half of the year.

1. What evidence do you have for this claim? Wiseman was the worst rotation player in the league last year. Oubre was 4th in minutes and a complete negative in every way possible. Wiggins had a negative BPM and less than a .1 WS/48, Bazemore was a negative 1.2 BPM, Looney was negative 0.9, and pool was negative 0.5. Jokic's teammates look very similar. Gordon -0.6 BPM, Barton -0.5, Green -2.5, Rivers -3.8...yeah a lot of below average players. You could argue there was a slight advantage for Curry just eye balling it but it's slight.

2. Hey availability is fine.

3. this is just a silly argument here. Curry went nuclear averaging like 37 a game over the last 23 games but he was absolutely playing like an MVP the rest of the season too. His team got better once they benched Wiseman, who was a worst player than anyone Jokic had in the rotation this year (which is saying a LOT). Pre allstar break Curry was 29.7 5.5 6.3 on 64.6 TS%.

1) What did Jokic have, exactly? Also, those numbers you're quoting also take into consideration how they're elevated, or not.

2) Curry pre-AS break (38gp): 29ppg on 47/41/91, 5.3rpg, 6.2apg, 1.4spg, 0.1bpg, 3.1tpg, 22.5 GmSc
Curry post-AS break (25gp): 36.1ppg on 49/42/91, 5.7rpg, 5.1apg, 1.0spg, 0.2bpg, 3.8tpg, 25.84 GmSc

Jokic pre-AS break (36gp): 27.1ppg on 58/43/87, 11rpg, 8.6apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.2tpg, 26.25 GmSc
Jokic post-AS break (35gp): 25.6ppg on 58/35/84, 10.6rpg, 8.1apg, 1.0spg, 0.7bpg, 3.0tpg, 24.57 GmSc

While Curry has MVP numbers pre-AS break, Jokic blows him out of the water from an impact standpoint. Post-AS break numbers (let's ignore availability) favour Curry, but Jokic's impact is much more comparable than Curry's is to Jokic's pre-AS break, which has more GP too.

[RTG HD]

Sad that Jokic is winning the poll right. Curry is the best player on the best team. I don't think it is unreasonable to mention Curry's name just after all time greats like Tim Duncan.

[dhsilv2]

Well for starters, Curry had a better cast last year than Jokic had this year. Also, availability IS a factor. And finally, Jokic played like an MVP from the get-go. Last year, Curry did so in the second half of the year.

1. What evidence do you have for this claim? Wiseman was the worst rotation player in the league last year. Oubre was 4th in minutes and a complete negative in every way possible. Wiggins had a negative BPM and less than a .1 WS/48, Bazemore was a negative 1.2 BPM, Looney was negative 0.9, and pool was negative 0.5. Jokic's teammates look very similar. Gordon -0.6 BPM, Barton -0.5, Green -2.5, Rivers -3.8...yeah a lot of below average players. You could argue there was a slight advantage for Curry just eye balling it but it's slight.

2. Hey availability is fine.

3. this is just a silly argument here. Curry went nuclear averaging like 37 a game over the last 23 games but he was absolutely playing like an MVP the rest of the season too. His team got better once they benched Wiseman, who was a worst player than anyone Jokic had in the rotation this year (which is saying a LOT). Pre allstar break Curry was 29.7 5.5 6.3 on 64.6 TS%.

1) What did Jokic have, exactly? Also, those numbers you're quoting also take into consideration how they're elevated, or not.

2) Curry pre-AS break (38gp): 29ppg on 47/41/91, 5.3rpg, 6.2apg, 1.4spg, 0.1bpg, 3.1tpg, 22.5 GmSc
Curry post-AS break (25gp): 36.1ppg on 49/42/91, 5.7rpg, 5.1apg, 1.0spg, 0.2bpg, 3.8tpg, 25.84 GmSc

Jokic pre-AS break (36gp): 27.1ppg on 58/43/87, 11rpg, 8.6apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.2tpg, 26.25 GmSc
Jokic post-AS break (35gp): 25.6ppg on 58/35/84, 10.6rpg, 8.1apg, 1.0spg, 0.7bpg, 3.0tpg, 24.57 GmSc

While Curry has MVP numbers pre-AS break, Jokic blows him out of the water from an impact standpoint. Post-AS break numbers (let's ignore availability) favour Curry, but Jokic's impact is much more comparable than Curry's is to Jokic's pre-AS break, which has more GP too.

What do you mean by impact? I believe both lead the league in RPM in those years. Yeah, Jokic is a step above Curry without a question in the metrics. Though 2021 seemed to have a flatter RAPM style result likely due to less games. I'm not big on comparing metrics year to year with the volatility I see year to year.

The bottom line is they both were likely have had their teams around 50 wins give or take if healthy. Both were putting up MPV numbers.

The discussion being proposed is however NOT who was better, but claiming jokic better based on team record and team record alone when both teams were basically running at the same pace when their stars were playing. If you want to argue for Jokic or Curry, it should be done so from the stand point of their play, their stats, or something else. Team record here doesn't separate them meaningfully enough.

As for the pre-all star stuff. The biggest issue was Wiseman, Oubre, Wiggins and Curry played 320 minute together during the first half the season, the equivalent of about 10 full games of Curry. That lineup was a complete and utter disaster. Kerr was trying to bring in too many new guys and two of them just completely flopped.

[The High Cyde]

I take Jokic and don’t think twice

[PistolPeteJR]

1. What evidence do you have for this claim? Wiseman was the worst rotation player in the league last year. Oubre was 4th in minutes and a complete negative in every way possible. Wiggins had a negative BPM and less than a .1 WS/48, Bazemore was a negative 1.2 BPM, Looney was negative 0.9, and pool was negative 0.5. Jokic's teammates look very similar. Gordon -0.6 BPM, Barton -0.5, Green -2.5, Rivers -3.8...yeah a lot of below average players. You could argue there was a slight advantage for Curry just eye balling it but it's slight.

2. Hey availability is fine.

3. this is just a silly argument here. Curry went nuclear averaging like 37 a game over the last 23 games but he was absolutely playing like an MVP the rest of the season too. His team got better once they benched Wiseman, who was a worst player than anyone Jokic had in the rotation this year (which is saying a LOT). Pre allstar break Curry was 29.7 5.5 6.3 on 64.6 TS%.

1) What did Jokic have, exactly? Also, those numbers you're quoting also take into consideration how they're elevated, or not.

2) Curry pre-AS break (38gp): 29ppg on 47/41/91, 5.3rpg, 6.2apg, 1.4spg, 0.1bpg, 3.1tpg, 22.5 GmSc
Curry post-AS break (25gp): 36.1ppg on 49/42/91, 5.7rpg, 5.1apg, 1.0spg, 0.2bpg, 3.8tpg, 25.84 GmSc

Jokic pre-AS break (36gp): 27.1ppg on 58/43/87, 11rpg, 8.6apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.2tpg, 26.25 GmSc
Jokic post-AS break (35gp): 25.6ppg on 58/35/84, 10.6rpg, 8.1apg, 1.0spg, 0.7bpg, 3.0tpg, 24.57 GmSc

While Curry has MVP numbers pre-AS break, Jokic blows him out of the water from an impact standpoint. Post-AS break numbers (let's ignore availability) favour Curry, but Jokic's impact is much more comparable than Curry's is to Jokic's pre-AS break, which has more GP too.

What do you mean by impact? I believe both lead the league in RPM in those years. Yeah, Jokic is a step above Curry without a question in the metrics. Though 2021 seemed to have a flatter RAPM style result likely due to less games. I'm not big on comparing metrics year to year with the volatility I see year to year.

The bottom line is they both were likely have had their teams around 50 wins give or take if healthy. Both were putting up MPV numbers.

The discussion being proposed is however NOT who was better, but claiming jokic better based on team record and team record alone when both teams were basically running at the same pace when their stars were playing. If you want to argue for Jokic or Curry, it should be done so from the stand point of their play, their stats, or something else. Team record here doesn't separate them meaningfully enough.

As for the pre-all star stuff. The biggest issue was Wiseman, Oubre, Wiggins and Curry played 320 minute together during the first half the season, the equivalent of about 10 full games of Curry. That lineup was a complete and utter disaster. Kerr was trying to bring in too many new guys and two of them just completely flopped.

No, the argument was both cast AND playing at an MVP-level from the get-go for Jokic. It was both points. And again, while Curry played like an MVP in the pre-AS break, not nearly like how Jokic did all year-long (again, ignoring availability).

[dhsilv2]

Sad that Jokic is winning the poll right. Curry is the best player on the best team. I don't think it is unreasonable to mention Curry's name just after all time greats like Tim Duncan.

I agree with your second two sentences. I disagree strongly with your first. Jokic is right now looking like a guy who's on his way to a top 10 career, something many think Curry is in the discussion of. Nothing wrong with taking the up and coming mega star over the aging mega star. Nothing wrong with taking them the other way.

[ShootersShoot]

Sad that Jokic is winning the poll right. Curry is the best player on the best team. I don't think it is unreasonable to mention Curry's name just after all time greats like Tim Duncan.

I agree but the question was asking about this very moment. If we had 27 yr old curry vs current jokic I would imagine the convo would be a bit different. If we are talking overall career its easily steph.

[Lalouie]

Better Player Right Now: Stephen Curry or Jokic

i'll pose a question to your question....

if you put jokic and curry on any of the other 29 teams who would have the most impact on the most teams?
personally i say jokic because he does MORE things that affect MORE players.
with curry you need the right players to take advantage of what he brings.

as one of three dominant bigs in a bigless league
as a 3pt shooter and atg passer he will make more things easier for more players
den won 48 games and jokic had NO ONE to play with

HOWEVER,,,curry will fill seats better


jmho

[Raps in 4]

Steph is 34. Of course it's Jokic. Statistically, it wasn't close either. Jokic was the best player in the NBA this year by a wide margin.

Steph is still a top-4 player though.

[Cavsfansince84]

As good as Curry was this year you can't totally gloss over how bad he and the Warriors were for a month or two after he broke the 3's record. Most people weren't even picking them to win the title going into the playoffs. Jokic meanwhile still lost a couple games where he had like 45/16/10 type statlines on great efficiency. Curry's rs was probably his weakest since 2013 while Jokic had one of the greatest rs's we've ever seen. I'm not sure to what degree his finals/playoffs changes all of this. I think people are a bit too much prisoners of the moment.

[RTG HD]

Sad that Jokic is winning the poll right. Curry is the best player on the best team. I don't think it is unreasonable to mention Curry's name just after all time greats like Tim Duncan.

I agree but the question was asking about this very moment. If we had 27 yr old curry vs current jokic I would imagine the convo would be a bit different. If we are talking overall career its easily steph.

Well ok, here is how I see it. Curry won the championship this year. We don't know yet if Jokic can elevate his game to leading a team to a championship but Curry has done it many times and could very well do it again next year. I get that people think Jokic will become that guy some day but every year we get new talent and the league already has others who will be competing for that same goal like Giannis Antetokounmpo, Joel Embiid, Luka Dončić, Devin Booker, Kawhi Leonard, and many others who are already great or will emerge as better than expected. I pick the guy most likely to win me a championship now.

[Frank Dux]

Jokic by a mile. He’d be unbelievable with Curry’s supporting cast.

[ahmetmekin]

I am pretty sure, Jokic will be the best rs player again next season. But I would prefer Curry or Giannis over Jokic in the postseason because I expect that any team with great/elite guards can cause serious trouble for Jokic's team.

[ShootersShoot]

Sad that Jokic is winning the poll right. Curry is the best player on the best team. I don't think it is unreasonable to mention Curry's name just after all time greats like Tim Duncan.

I agree but the question was asking about this very moment. If we had 27 yr old curry vs current jokic I would imagine the convo would be a bit different. If we are talking overall career its easily steph.

Well ok, here is how I see it. Curry won the championship this year. We don't know yet if Jokic can elevate his game to leading a team to a championship but Curry has done it many times and could very well do it again next year. I get that people think Jokic will become that guy some day but every year we get new talent and the league already has others who will be competing for that same goal like Giannis Antetokounmpo, Joel Embiid, Luka Dončić, Devin Booker, Kawhi Leonard, and many others who are already great or will emerge as better than expected. I pick the guy most likely to win me a championship now.

Ben wallace/billups won a chip in 04 as the best players on the pistons. Does that mean I would take either over KG who was then 27 years old but hasnt won anything? Or how about 32 year old kobe in 2010 over 25 year old Lebron? Not quite. Not comparing any of those players to each other but I'm just saying that it can be logical to take a player who "hasnt won anything" to another player who has won it all previously. If we swap jokic with steph on their respective teams, the warriors could still possibly contend. Steph is still a superstar and its very reasonable to choose him as well. Your points are definitely valid and logical.

Whenever I watch steph play, I am just in awe at how good he is. I also feel the same way when I watch Jokic play, dude is a generational level player in his own right.