Draymond: “European players have not caught the same flak of winning a championship as US players

[Genjuro]

Jokic is coughing quite a flak for not winning with Campazzo and Rivers as his starting backcourt, I would say. Nowitzki was labbeled as soft and Giannis was said not to be a post season player, unable to figure out "the wall", until they won of course. Doncic is too young and he's overachieving in post season so far. And there is not any other European superstar in the history of the game.

[cupcakesnake]

European players have not caught the same flak because there's not as many of them.

This is nothing but a hot take by Draymond. Every elite MVP-level player faces enormous pressure to win. The Jokic haters have been sharpening their blades all season. SHould the Nuggets bow out early in the playoffs, it's going to be a blood bath. Dirk was called soft forever before 2011 happened. Giannis got "exposed" by Toronto and Miami and got his share of hate before 2021. Doncic has so many people saying his style isn't conductive to winning, despite already reaching the WCF as a 22-year-old.

But that's almost the whole list of European MVP-level players. Who does Draymond want to see criticized more to balance this all out? I can start calling Furkan Korkmaz soft for not winning a title yet if that helps the cause.

[UcanUwill]

Jokic was in fact drafted during taco bell commercial, we are just glad we got all time great out of nowhere. WIth LeBron and KD, they were touted to be all time greats when they were still children, the expectations momentum with them was always way more rapid than most players.
Guys Like Jimmy Butler, 5'9 Isiaih Thomas, were great players, MVP conversation guys and american, but they never got same expectations either, because they weren't the guys coming into the league, not even close.

[Ice Trae]

another idiot right up there with kendrick perkins

[DaddyCool19]

Should player catch flak when they win a championship?

[Nate505]

Yeah, the more you analyze it, it begs the question of what exactly is this moron talking about. Like he can only be talking about Jokic right? And nobody is looking at that team in Denver and thinking dynasty or anything, but if the Nuggets don't at least get to the Conference Finals they are going to get blasted, and Jokic will get most of the criticism.

So again, what is this moron talking about.

Also, are guys like Tatum getting a lot of flak for not winning a Championship yet? If so I haven't heard it.

[Genjuro]

Dirk got a lot of flack until he won in 2011. Funny how the narrative changes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was seen as a soft Euro jump-shooting big that couldn't get it done when it mattered.

All greats get this ''flak''. Same was with Pau, couldnt win a play off game, then he won 2 with Lakers, and I remember at one point, people argued that Pau might be even better than Dirk, Dirk was just a ''choker'', tho his play offs numbers were insane so was his regular season records, with teams, that I personally never believed will ever win Larry.

Someone here said that Denver reminds me of Dirks Mavs, and I can see that, but also disagree, because in my eyes, Denver is clear contender,where Dallas always screamed pretender, and to me, them winning in 2011 remains to be one of the biggest surprises to me, never saw it coming.

The Mavs in the mid 00s was a real contender. Like more contenders than a Nuggets team that at the very best is seen as the third favourite, a step (or a couple) below the Celtics and the Bucks.

[BNM]

Durant won his 1st championship in his 10th season at the age of 28.

LeBron won his 1st championship in his 9th season at the age of 27.

Giannis won his 1st championship in his 8th season at the age of 26 - and he didn't need to take his talents to MIA or GSW and form a super team to do it.

STFU Draymond.

[FrodoBaggins]

Yeah, the more you analyze it, it begs the question of what exactly is this moron talking about. Like he can only be talking about Jokic right? And nobody is looking at that team in Denver and thinking dynasty or anything, but if the Nuggets don't at least get to the Conference Finals they are going to get blasted, and Jokic will get most of the criticism.

So again, what is this moron talking about.

Also, are guys like Tatum getting a lot of flak for not winning a Championship yet? If so I haven't heard it.

There are always these types of comments being made when there's a superstar-caliber white player. Whether it's from players, former players, or media talking heads. Just seems par for the course. Was the same back in the '80s with Bird.

[UcanUwill]

Dirk got a lot of flack until he won in 2011. Funny how the narrative changes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was seen as a soft Euro jump-shooting big that couldn't get it done when it mattered.

All greats get this ''flak''. Same was with Pau, couldnt win a play off game, then he won 2 with Lakers, and I remember at one point, people argued that Pau might be even better than Dirk, Dirk was just a ''choker'', tho his play offs numbers were insane so was his regular season records, with teams, that I personally never believed will ever win Larry.

Someone here said that Denver reminds me of Dirks Mavs, and I can see that, but also disagree, because in my eyes, Denver is clear contender,where Dallas always screamed pretender, and to me, them winning in 2011 remains to be one of the biggest surprises to me, never saw it coming.

The Mavs in the mid 00s was a real contender. Like more contenders than a Nuggets team that at the very best is seen as the third favourite, a step (or a couple) below the Celtics and the Bucks.

Personally, I never felt this way about Dirks Mavs, his supporting cast was not the greatest, it was always deep, but he never had a legit second guy. Spurs existed, Suns existed, Lakers in and out existed, those teams were THE teams, Dallas wasn't in my opinion.

[Tha Cynic]

European players also do not get the same type of recognition that US players get. The two best players in the league are Jokic and Doncic and you barely hear any mention of them.

[Peregrine01]

Pretty ugly the discourse around Jokic lately. A lot of insinuations about racism that stem from racism itself.

[Bornstellar]

What is he even talking about? What European players have been good enough to lead their teams to rings and actually be in that kind of conversation besides Dirk, who caught plenty of flak until he won in 2011? Giannis did too but he also won a ring now. Does he mean Jokic? Who had zero chance to win a ring up until this season?

[iLLmatic860]

I don't think it's accurate.

Well if we talking about players like Jokic. He does not have the expectations and pressure of winning championships like the Brons, Kds of the world

Yes because Jokic has been chilling in denver not creating a "super team"

KD and Bron are the poster childs of "super team"

Super teams come with expectations.

When the team fails to meet expectations the team receives criticism.

Seems pretty straightforward.

Green has a big mouth and says dumb things.

Why do you think Bron joined Miami to begin with?

[levon]

I feel like he wants to say white but is using European instead.

Are there white superstars with championship expectations who aren't European?

The only two white guys of the NBA's top 20 players today are from the Baltics.

[trickshot]

Dirk got a lot of flack until he won in 2011. Funny how the narrative changes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was seen as a soft Euro jump-shooting big that couldn't get it done when it mattered.

Nope, you're right. Was actually one of the biggest reputation turnarounds. Popular name here was Choke Nowitzki.

It's a bad take because European players also get overlooked for credit. Jokic and Giannis still weren't getting media love a US player would.

[Genjuro]

All greats get this ''flak''. Same was with Pau, couldnt win a play off game, then he won 2 with Lakers, and I remember at one point, people argued that Pau might be even better than Dirk, Dirk was just a ''choker'', tho his play offs numbers were insane so was his regular season records, with teams, that I personally never believed will ever win Larry.

Someone here said that Denver reminds me of Dirks Mavs, and I can see that, but also disagree, because in my eyes, Denver is clear contender,where Dallas always screamed pretender, and to me, them winning in 2011 remains to be one of the biggest surprises to me, never saw it coming.

The Mavs in the mid 00s was a real contender. Like more contenders than a Nuggets team that at the very best is seen as the third favourite, a step (or a couple) below the Celtics and the Bucks.

Personally, I never felt this way about Dirks Mavs, his supporting cast was not the greatest, it was always deep, but he never had a legit second guy. Spurs existed, Suns existed, Lakers in and out existed, those teams were THE teams, Dallas wasn't in my opinion.

Well, they showed it getting to the Finals in 2006 and getting the league's best record in 2007. I think that team made a lot of sense at the time. They were not super-talented, but it added the needed defense and grit to Nowitzki's offensive genious (him and Nash splitting was a good decision for both and a great treat for us NBA fans).

The Mavericks were the favourites according to the odds entering the 2006 and 2007 preseasons, as well as the favourites entering the 2007 playoffs. The Nuggets are the fourth favourite right now, and this is as high as they have ever been, I believe.

[Bornstellar]

Dirk got a lot of flack until he won in 2011. Funny how the narrative changes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was seen as a soft Euro jump-shooting big that couldn't get it done when it mattered.

Nope, you're right. Was actually one of the biggest reputation turnarounds. Popular name here was Choke Nowitzki.

Don't forget Dirk Noringski

[levon]

Dirk got a lot of flack until he won in 2011. Funny how the narrative changes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was seen as a soft Euro jump-shooting big that couldn't get it done when it mattered.

Nope, you're right. Was actually one of the biggest reputation turnarounds. Popular name here was Choke Nowitzki.

He lost to an 8 seed on a 67 win team. Coming off losing in the Finals the year prior after being up 2-0. Don't think race has much to do with that one, that's really flack-worthy.

[Myth]

Who all does this apply to? Jokic and Doncic? Jokic is slowly getting more pressure as he racks up MVPs, but people also recognize his team has not been great in the few years that he has been MVP caliber. Doncic is young, but he'll definitely get flak for never winning a ring, especially if he spends a long time surrounded by talent, which he has not yet. So who are these Europeans not getting flak? If we go back in time a bit, people have mentioned Dirk got criticized until he finally won. If we expand this to meaning white, then Steve Nash got criticism for never even making it to the Finals.