OMG! Injuries strike fast and plenty

[DoctorX]

soft players

Yeah I remember the 90s and 80s. Players going for 82 on broken feet and arms. When MJ injured his leg he kept going walking with his hands and shooting with his left leg.

Those were the days.

I do remember the flu game he had against the Jazz in the Finals.

[DoctorX]

So much for load management.

For real. It'd be nice to have some data on all of this, load management and statistics on injuries.

There's a video with a Tim Grover (ex-Michael Jordan trainer) interview, where he says that, the more players are load managed, the more they will be susceptible to injuries.

I tried searching for it on my browser history, couldn't find it...

I have seen that video before with Tim. I know what you are talking about. I recall Tim saying that your body and muscles need to develop resistance towards injuries and the only way to do it is you have to play a full season and that if you do load management your body won't build up the proper resistance towards injuries.

[alebaba]

You can't avoid freak accidents, thats why its hilarious to me hearing people say to lower the regular season games to 70, like thats going to help.

[ConSarnit]

So much for load management.

For real. It'd be nice to have some data on all of this, load management and statistics on injuries.

There's a video with a Tim Grover (ex-Michael Jordan trainer) interview, where he says that, the more players are load managed, the more they will be susceptible to injuries.

I tried searching for it on my browser history, couldn't find it...

I don't know if Grover is the best resource. The only video I could find of him regarding load management was him saying teams only use "bands and cables" for training and that some NBA teams don't even have a weight room. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every NBA team does in fact have a weight room.

The main issue (from what I've read) is this: AAU is killing guys. Guys are entering the league having played way more basketball than in the past and this is showing up in medicals. Kids are only doing single sport specific training today and aren't playing other sports that train their body in a more well rounded way. They are playing basketball year round and aren't taking a break by playing football, baseball, etc anymore. This is leading to more repetitive stress injuries.

[GSWFan1994]

I have seen that video before with Tim. I know what you are talking about. I recall Tim saying that your body and muscles need to develop resistance towards injuries and the only way to do it is you have to play a full season and that if you do load management your body won't build up the proper resistance towards injuries.

Yes, it's about resistance, and I shall say it, it's about flexibility as well.

I played high school ball. Granted it was here in Brazil, but still, I did it. And I've been lifting and swimming and running for decades now. I always preferred to focus on those two things.

I remember reading somewhere, decades ago, that Glenn Robinson, a pro athlete to say the less, couldn't touch his feet while standing up. That's lack of flexibility for you.

I'm not a expert, but I think Tim has a point.

[GSWFan1994]

I don't know if Grover is the best resource. The only video I could find of him regarding load management was him saying teams only use "bands and cables" for training and that some NBA teams don't even have a weight room. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every NBA team does in fact have a weight room.

The main issue (from what I've read) is this: AAU is killing guys. Guys are entering the league having played way more basketball than in the past and this is showing up in medicals. Kids are only doing single sport specific training today and aren't playing other sports that train their body in a more well rounded way. They are playing basketball year round and aren't taking a break by playing football, baseball, etc anymore. This is leading to more repetitive stress injuries.

I think Tim has a point (see post above), but you're equally right as well.

I remember, in the same Tim video I said above, that they made the same point you did about the AAU. Yeah, it adds to the mileage and somewhat "acquaints" your body to just one way of exercising.

[lambchop]

For real. It'd be nice to have some data on all of this, load management and statistics on injuries.

There's a video with a Tim Grover (ex-Michael Jordan trainer) interview, where he says that, the more players are load managed, the more they will be susceptible to injuries.

I tried searching for it on my browser history, couldn't find it...

I don't know if Grover is the best resource. The only video I could find of him regarding load management was him saying teams only use "bands and cables" for training and that some NBA teams don't even have a weight room. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every NBA team does in fact have a weight room.

The main issue (from what I've read) is this: AAU is killing guys. Guys are entering the league having played way more basketball than in the past and this is showing up in medicals. Kids are only doing single sport specific training today and aren't playing other sports that train their body in a more well rounded way. They are playing basketball year round and aren't taking a break by playing football, baseball, etc anymore. This is leading to more repetitive stress injuries.

The AAU theory makes a lot of sense, but keep in mind that Euro players that make it to the NBA don't play multiple sports. Basically, when they go "pro" at around age 15 they're essentially playing 3 teams - a youth team, a semi pro level men's team and the pro team. They don't get much playing time on the pro team, but are still expected to show up to most of the practices. They get most of their minutes on the youth and semi pro team.

Once the season is over they join the youth national team and are practising and playing with them during the summer. Afterwards they head back to their usual schedule.

Exceptions would be guys like Wemby or Luka who were simply so good at such a young age that they started getting consistent playing time on the pro team at an early age. Therefore, there was no need for them to play on multiple teams. However, they were already full blown pros practicing twice a day with two games a week (wemby of course decided to join a lesser team this season in order to play less games) at that point.

That kind of structure has basically always been in place in Europe. Nowiztki loved playinf tennis, though I'm not sure how much of it he actually played. But it would have been unthinkable to have, say Tony Parker, Gasol, Kirilenko randomly play competitive soccer in the summer for 3 to 6 months while missing out on all the youth national team stuff.

[Jables]

For real. It'd be nice to have some data on all of this, load management and statistics on injuries.

There's a video with a Tim Grover (ex-Michael Jordan trainer) interview, where he says that, the more players are load managed, the more they will be susceptible to injuries.

I tried searching for it on my browser history, couldn't find it...

I don't know if Grover is the best resource. The only video I could find of him regarding load management was him saying teams only use "bands and cables" for training and that some NBA teams don't even have a weight room. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every NBA team does in fact have a weight room.

The main issue (from what I've read) is this: AAU is killing guys. Guys are entering the league having played way more basketball than in the past and this is showing up in medicals. Kids are only doing single sport specific training today and aren't playing other sports that train their body in a more well rounded way. They are playing basketball year round and aren't taking a break by playing football, baseball, etc anymore. This is leading to more repetitive stress injuries.

There is no solid answer on who is resting players at every organisation so I don't think there's any specific medical or scientific reason personally. I just don't the buy the milage argument which I have seen before, why are NBA players and coaches asking for less games rather than less AAU stuff? Did the Spurs wake up one day and decide AAU was **** up all their players? Because it really didn't take long for everyone to start copying them, I don't even know know where the facts on kids coming in with stress fractures from the AAU could possibly come from.

Wouldn't teams be trying to utilise load management to get players to play more games? Why wouldn't you just reduce chronic loads by decreasing training loads instead of missing games? De-training is very important for young athletes bodies but the NBA doesn't even really care about that now, preferring to rest senior stars instead, it just screams pseudoscience to me that young kids aren't rested more during their first few years if they are so spot on with their load management these days.

[ConSarnit]

I have seen that video before with Tim. I know what you are talking about. I recall Tim saying that your body and muscles need to develop resistance towards injuries and the only way to do it is you have to play a full season and that if you do load management your body won't build up the proper resistance towards injuries.

Yes, it's about resistance, and I shall say it, it's about flexibility as well.

I played high school ball. Granted it was here in Brazil, but still, I did it. And I've been lifting and swimming and running for decades now. I always preferred to focus on those two things.

I remember reading somewhere, decades ago, that Glenn Robinson, a pro athlete to say the less, couldn't touch his feet while standing up. That's lack of flexibility for you.

I'm not a expert, but I think Tim has a point.

I find it hard to believe that playing an extra 8 games is going to build your resistance to injury. The league has changed. Guys have to run and cut more than they did in the past. Spacing has created a situation where players need to cover more ground and change direction more quickly, leading to more injuries.

Tim is saying guys need to play a full season yet 30 franchises are saying it's better if the players don't. 30 franchises who spend 10's of millions on medical yearly and have the health records and tracking data of 1000's of players.

The injuries load management hopes to prevent (muscle strain, ligament and tendon) are caused by repetitive stress. Tim is obviously right about building strength as a mean to avoid injury but every team knows this (and he somehow thinks some NBA teams don't even have weight rooms).

One study (data from 2012-2015, pre-wide spread load management) showed that for each rest day players were 16% less likely to suffer an injury. The study also showed that players who entered the league early (1 college season vs 3-4 college seasons) were more likely to get injured at age 25 (and so on). If Grover's contention is correct, why are the players who played less (35 game vs 82 game seasons) from ages 18-22 getting injured less often once in the NBA? Wouldn't those players who were in the NBA earlier (and played more games) be more "resilient" to injury according to Grover's theory? No, because overuse is a key factor in injuries.

[madmaxmedia]

So much for load management.

I'm kind of on the fence on this.

I saw a poster in here say more load management makes players more susceptible to injuries...

but on the other hand, doesn't this prove that teams sit out players for games here and there for the fear of freak injuries in random games just like in these game 1s? BUT also on the other hand, it seems like even if you load manage, players can still have freak injuries. My head hurts

Whether load management reduces injuries, I don't know. But it's really hard for me to imagine that sitting out some back-to-backs actually increases the susceptibility to injuries, it's not like you're sitting a guy out for a multiple games in a row.

If that was the case, then ASB is like the superspreader of NBA injuries.

[RoyceDa59]

Seems like most years it’s a battle of healthiest contender.

[dhsilv2]

So much for load management.

For real. It'd be nice to have some data on all of this, load management and statistics on injuries.

I think this is just illustrating that the way basketball is played today isn't sustainable. The league is going to have to make the game less physical...which sadly would mean calling more offensive fouls, more travels, cutting out moving screens, and shortening the 3 point line.

[dhsilv2]

So much for load management.

guess they’d rather you’d get injured in the playoffs than reg season

Still think the whole thing is pointless. There’s really no true way to prevent an injury in basketball. Simply stepping on someone’s foot can end your season

Spurs started this trend, but it was for Duncan and Manu when they were around the age of 34-35 which made sense at that age since both were getting a lot of nagging injuries. I felt it extended both of those guys careers, but they were way past their prime and needed load management. Anybody below the age of 35 should not be doing load management.

Duncan had injuries in 04 and 05 tha tlead to 06 and on him having his minutes cut, not so much games. He was 29 in 2006, not 34 or 35. The spurs also did the same thing to Parker around that same time...he was in his early 20's. Infact Parker never once played even 35 minutes a game in the regular season.

And to our "players fault" people...Parker complained about that all the time. Pop didn't care.

BTW Parker with all that "load management", and with a game that didn't lend itself to being an "old man" (short and doesn't shoot well) is 19th all time in regular season + play off games played. So maybe it worked?

[AleksandarN]

Man, what the hell! Just Game 1 in of every series and we've got injuries to Paul George, Tyler Herro, Ja Morant, Giannis and Jordan Poole and I might be missing some others. Aahh, just sucks. Luckily, Giannis lower back contusion seems nothing serious, just like Poole's and Morant's pains, but man what a fright.

For Miami and Clipperland it just sucks, but what a world they both stole Game 1 on the road against title favourites.

Jokic also re injured his right wrist as well. Just look at his second half.

[clyde21]

i thought all the load management during the RS was to get players healthy for the postseason

oh wait

[OldSchoolNoBull]

If I may take a more positive outlook...

Both Giannis and Morant's x-rays came back negative - so nothing broken. There seems to be some hope Giannis can be back for Game 2, Morant may miss a game or two.

George is projected to be ready for the second round, and the Clippers have already won one game without him.

The loss of Herro sucks for Miami, but if Giannis can play, they were never expected to get past that series anyway.

[Lockdown504090]

So much for load management.

I'm kind of on the fence on this.

I saw a poster in here say more load management makes players more susceptible to injuries...

but on the other hand, doesn't this prove that teams sit out players for games here and there for the fear of freak injuries in random games just like in these game 1s? BUT also on the other hand, it seems like even if you load manage, players can still have freak injuries. My head hurts

load management is for wear and tear soft tissue injuries like hamstrings, feet, knees and back injuries. I dont think what we saw on the weekend is some silver bullet agaisnt it. lebron AD kawhi and tons of other guys wouldnt be playing right now if they werent load managed.

[HardenGoat]

So much for load management.

For real. It'd be nice to have some data on all of this, load management and statistics on injuries.

No idea but Giannis, Herro, and Ja all were nasty falls and either broken bones or contusions. Those are bad luck (Refer to Giannis thread for my feelings on charges) and IMHO have zero to do with load management.

Giannis doesn't have bones, maybe just his teeth and in ears. The rest is like cartilage

[GamecockFan1024]

Load Management is out of control. Definitely needs to be addressed.

[LuDux1]

soft players

Soft players bend, hard players break. Make NBA soft again