NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[eyeatoma]

I feel like people hate Embiid too much to choose him, and they take it personally that he won last year, even though he's been the best player this season. This poll would be a landslide for him if he was as well liked as Jokic around here.

When most people can agree that one player is the MVP for a few years straight, but you have the loud few who like to play devil's advocate, it tends to skew people's attitude towards the devil.

This woulda been Embiid's one year of "Hmm, he really deserves it maybe?" if we rewarded the right guy (that the overwhelming majority considered the right guy, in our environment of realgm).

I'm sure you can see this in other aspects of society as well, when you see a 'wrong'...if Jokic won the 3rd straight, which many people think he deserved, then 28/13/10 on 54% shooting wouldn't be enough in peoples minds.

Not when you can argue that Embiid deserved one or two of them.

1st year lead straw poll at the all star break. Then got hurt. What could have been...

2nd year Jokic turned it up another level. Embiid lost some key matchups after the all star break. Zach Lowe went on a media blitz when he saw Embiid was leading the straw poll and influenced lots of people. There is a tweet from a media member that year saying that the journalists that dont follow the NBA but have a vote just go with Lowes pick and that he has huge cachè and influence.

3rd year they're both playing great. Jokic leads the straw poll at all star break. Embiid pulls a Jokic and wins key match ups, turns it up a notch including 50 against Boston to seal the deal. Jokic misses a bunch of games. Jokic fans complain about Embiid skipping the Denver game and now have a new narrative.

If you're telling me that Embiid didn't deserve to win atleast one of those MVPs then you're probably not giving him a fair shake.



Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[eyeatoma]

Yup

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Because Embiid is a selfish ass****, and, Jokic is the most unselfish and non self absorbed/winning (not stats) player and person of this Millennium.

That's what you don't understand, from your perspective, as a self-appointed "Indian from Indonesia". You have no hand on the pulse of the NBA in America. Never have, never will. You just look at the stats you (choose to) value, don't watch anything other than Embiid/76ers, and make you statements based on an incredibly myopic perspective.

Yeah it's over. Until Embiid proves it in the playoffs. He can **** right on off. Happy he got an MVP but that had to be the smallest I've ever seen an "MVP" perform. Indefensible. Jokic the best in the world.

5/14/23. A "Moment Of Clarity", as alcoholics and addict refer to it.

I went to American schools my whole life.

My wife is American as are my kids. My sister is a US citizen. Don't ever assume who I am. You really need to stop making these posts personal.

I literally say one word and you get triggered.



Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[RB34]

Right now it’s gotta be Embiid

Why? Philly is 4th in the East and they’ve had a full team the whole season.

Because he's got the best stats.

And by stats you mean points?

[ty 4191]

Spoiler:

I literally say one word and you get triggered.

You're not American. You're not here, immersed in our culture, constantly, like we are.

And.... you think an uber selish, spoiled brat/crybaby/flopper/best teams dodger/total playoffs failure is/has been better than Jokic. And you've said so, for 4 years here, incessantly.

You have no idea what you're talking about, generally, and don't even have the cognizance to know all that you don't know and aren't aware of.

There's a reason why nobody "And1's" any of your posts. Do you wonder why you got THIRTY FIVE And 1's for that single post, 5/14/23?

Poster has been suspended.

[eyeatoma]

I literally say one word and you get triggered.

You're not American. You're not here, immersed in our culture, constantly, like we are.

And.... you think an uber selish, spoiled brat/crybaby/flopper/best teams dodger/total playoffs failure is/has been better than Jokic. And you've said so, for 4 years here, incessantly.

You have no idea what you're talking about, generally, and don't even have the cognizance to know all that you don't know and aren't aware of.

There's a reason why nobody "And1's" any of your posts. Do you wonder why you got THIRTY FIVE And 1's for that single post, 5/14/23?

Once again you have no idea who I am and where I've lived. Neither disqualifies me from having an opinion on this btw. I'm done responding to you.

[ty 4191]

I'm done responding to you.

It's about time. Block me. Please.

And, stop posting/spamming this thread.

[ty 4191]

Net On/Off per 100, All MVP Candidates, this season:

Jokic: +21.9
Embiid: +5.9
Doncic: +0.3
SGA: +13.7
Tatum: +5.3
Giannis: +2.5
Halburotn: +7.3
Durant: +10.2
Booker: +10.3
Curry: -6.9

[NyKnicks1714]

Yup

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Because Embiid is a selfish ass****, and, Jokic is the most unselfish and non self absorbed/winning (not stats) player and person of this Millennium.

That's what you don't understand, from your perspective, as a self-appointed "Indian from Indonesia". You have no hand on the pulse of the NBA in America. Never have, never will. You just look at the stats you (choose to) value, don't watch anything other than Embiid/76ers, and make you statements based on an incredibly myopic perspective.

Yeah it's over. Until Embiid proves it in the playoffs. He can **** right on off. Happy he got an MVP but that had to be the smallest I've ever seen an "MVP" perform. Indefensible. Jokic the best in the world.

5/14/23. A "Moment Of Clarity", as alcoholics and addict refer to it.

I literally say one word and you get triggered.

You're not American. You're not here, immersed in our culture, constantly, like we are.

And.... you think an uber selish, spoiled brat/crybaby/flopper/best teams dodger/total playoffs failure is/has been better than Jokic. And you've said so, for 4 years here, incessantly.

You have no idea what you're talking about, generally, and don't even have the cognizance to know all that you don't know and aren't aware of.

There's a reason why nobody "And1's" any of your posts. Do you wonder why you got THIRTY FIVE And 1's for that single post, 5/14/23?

That poster is annoying, but this is way out of line, immature, and ignorant.

[ChartFiction]

Very weird comments about the poster's background out of nowhere

[Big J]

Yup

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Because Embiid is a selfish ass****, and, Jokic is the most unselfish and non self absorbed/winning (not stats) player and person of this Millennium.

Shouldn't MVP be judged based on what happens on the court, and not who is more liked and who is selfish?

[Archx]

Can we agree on something?

If Embiid wins another regular season MVP... Every Jokic fan will celebrate with Embiid fans, but if Jokic wins another finals MVP, every Embiid fan will also have to celebrate with Jokic fans? Which one is more important, you guys decide.

Because it's obvious that Embiid fans fanatically want him to win regular season awards (for some weird reason), while i'm sure Jokic couldn't care less about that and just wants to win rings like any true competitor.

[eyeatoma]

Can we agree on something?

If Embiid wins another regular season MVP... Every Jokic fan will celebrate with Embiid fans, but if Jokic wins another finals MVP, every Embiid fan will also have to celebrate with Jokic fans? Which one is more important, you guys decide.

Because it's obvious that Embiid fans fanatically want him to win regular season awards (for some weird reason), while i'm sure Jokic couldn't care less about that and just wants to win rings like any true competitor.

I mean you can say the fanaticism works both ways. I'd much rather Embiid win a chip than an MVP, especially given that he's won one already. But I always feel that the person that deserves it most should win it. I dont' think it's fair to say that Embiid fans are being fanatics, but Jokic fans are just going with, w/e rationale you want to use. Works both ways man.

[dygaction]

I literally say one word and you get triggered.

You're not American. You're not here, immersed in our culture, constantly, like we are.

And.... you think an uber selish, spoiled brat/crybaby/flopper/best teams dodger/total playoffs failure is/has been better than Jokic. And you've said so, for 4 years here, incessantly.

You have no idea what you're talking about, generally, and don't even have the cognizance to know all that you don't know and aren't aware of.

There's a reason why nobody "And1's" any of your posts. Do you wonder why you got THIRTY FIVE And 1's for that single post, 5/14/23?

I like Jokic a lot more than Embiid but this is way over the line.

[Archx]

Can we agree on something?

If Embiid wins another regular season MVP... Every Jokic fan will celebrate with Embiid fans, but if Jokic wins another finals MVP, every Embiid fan will also have to celebrate with Jokic fans? Which one is more important, you guys decide.

Because it's obvious that Embiid fans fanatically want him to win regular season awards (for some weird reason), while i'm sure Jokic couldn't care less about that and just wants to win rings like any true competitor.

I mean you can say the fanaticism works both ways. I'd much rather Embiid win a chip than an MVP, especially given that he's won one already. But I always feel that the person that deserves it most should win it. I dont' think it's fair to say that Embiid fans are being fanatics, but Jokic fans are just going with, w/e rationale you want to use. Works both ways man.

Well, in my time here, i have never seen anyone fight so obsessive for a random stranger as you are fighting for Embiid. Unless he's your close friend, then i apologize.
But you guys fighting with Jokic fans then derail these threads to the point that are simply about only 2 players and are not enjoyable to read anymore.

There are many good young guys in the run like Hali, Fox, SGA, Tatum, Doncic and i'm forgetting more probably... But no, it's Embiid vs Jokic, like who the hell cares at this point anymore? We're not even at 50% of the season and it's already a hell-hole here. There should probably be a separate sticky thread "Jokic vs Embiid" and you literally fight it out there and let others have a civil discussion here.

[Cubbies2120]

I feel like people hate Embiid too much to choose him, and they take it personally that he won last year, even though he's been the best player this season. This poll would be a landslide for him if he was as well liked as Jokic around here.

When most people can agree that one player is the MVP for a few years straight, but you have the loud few who like to play devil's advocate, it tends to skew people's attitude towards the devil.

This woulda been Embiid's one year of "Hmm, he really deserves it maybe?" if we rewarded the right guy (that the overwhelming majority considered the right guy, in our environment of realgm).

I'm sure you can see this in other aspects of society as well, when you see a 'wrong'...if Jokic won the 3rd straight, which many people think he deserved, then 28/13/10 on 54% shooting wouldn't be enough in peoples minds.

Not when you can argue that Embiid deserved one or two of them.

1st year lead straw poll at the all star break. Then got hurt. What could have been...

2nd year Jokic turned it up another level. Embiid lost some key matchups after the all star break. Zach Lowe went on a media blitz when he saw Embiid was leading the straw poll and influenced lots of people. There is a tweet from a media member that year saying that the journalists that dont follow the NBA just go with Lowes pick and that he has huge cachè and influence.

3rd year they're both playing great. Jokic leads the straw poll at all star break. Embiid pulls a Jokic and wins a key match up including 50 against Boston to seal the deal. Jokic misses a bunch of games. Jokic fans complain about Embiid skipping the Denver game and now have a new narrative.

Is you're telling me that Embiid didn't deserve to win atleast one of those MVPs then you're probably not giving him a fair shake.



Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

You make valid points. I'd argue that MVP voting should be a weighted system, and not X amount of media members, some of which haven't picked up a basketball in years.

I'd argue it should be weighted, and that there should be some combination of:
Player poll
Coach poll
GM poll
Media poll
and maybe like 2% fan poll

That way everyone gets input because
Players play the game (Which player would make me most successful to try to win a championship)
Coaches coach (Which player would enable my team to win the most games & win a ring)
GM's build teams (Which player would enable the other players + coaches to chase the ultimate goal)
Media ("Neutral" perspective, not in the building)
Fans (Lowest % weighted ranking because there's implicit bias here)

Right now it's a tiny tiny pool of people whose opinions can sway day by day

But we don't live in a perfect world

[RB34]

I literally say one word and you get triggered.

You're not American. You're not here, immersed in our culture, constantly, like we are.

And.... you think an uber selish, spoiled brat/crybaby/flopper/best teams dodger/total playoffs failure is/has been better than Jokic. And you've said so, for 4 years here, incessantly.

You have no idea what you're talking about, generally, and don't even have the cognizance to know all that you don't know and aren't aware of.

There's a reason why nobody "And1's" any of your posts. Do you wonder why you got THIRTY FIVE And 1's for that single post, 5/14/23?

Basketball is a global sport and the best players in the league at the moment aren’t from the US.

Probably need to simmer down a bit my dude.

[eyeatoma]

Can we agree on something?

If Embiid wins another regular season MVP... Every Jokic fan will celebrate with Embiid fans, but if Jokic wins another finals MVP, every Embiid fan will also have to celebrate with Jokic fans? Which one is more important, you guys decide.

Because it's obvious that Embiid fans fanatically want him to win regular season awards (for some weird reason), while i'm sure Jokic couldn't care less about that and just wants to win rings like any true competitor.

I mean you can say the fanaticism works both ways. I'd much rather Embiid win a chip than an MVP, especially given that he's won one already. But I always feel that the person that deserves it most should win it. I dont' think it's fair to say that Embiid fans are being fanatics, but Jokic fans are just going with, w/e rationale you want to use. Works both ways man.

Well, in my time here, i have never seen anyone fight so obsessive for a random stranger as you are fighting for Embiid. Unless he's your close friend, then i apologize.
But you guys fighting with Jokic fans then derail these threads to the point that are simply about only 2 players and are not enjoyable to read anymore.

There are many good young guys in the run like Hali, Fox, SGA, Tatum, Doncic and i'm forgetting more probably... But no, it's Embiid vs Jokic, like who the hell cares at this point anymore? We're not even at 50% of the season and it's already a hell-hole here. There should probably be a separate sticky thread "Jokic vs Embiid" and you literally fight it out there and let others have a civil discussion here.

I guess that's what makes people fans? I mean, it's short for fanatics.

SGA is 100% in the running as are those others. If either Jokic/Embiid drop off, I have no problem going to bat for one of them. But the last 3 years that hasn't been the case.

[Cubbies2120]

Can we agree on something?

If Embiid wins another regular season MVP... Every Jokic fan will celebrate with Embiid fans, but if Jokic wins another finals MVP, every Embiid fan will also have to celebrate with Jokic fans? Which one is more important, you guys decide.

Because it's obvious that Embiid fans fanatically want him to win regular season awards (for some weird reason), while i'm sure Jokic couldn't care less about that and just wants to win rings like any true competitor.

I mean you can say the fanaticism works both ways. I'd much rather Embiid win a chip than an MVP, especially given that he's won one already. But I always feel that the person that deserves it most should win it. I dont' think it's fair to say that Embiid fans are being fanatics, but Jokic fans are just going with, w/e rationale you want to use. Works both ways man.

Well, in my time here, i have never seen anyone fight so obsessive for a random stranger as you are fighting for Embiid. Unless he's your close friend, then i apologize.
But you guys fighting with Jokic fans then derail these threads to the point that are simply about only 2 players and are not enjoyable to read anymore.

There are many good young guys in the run like Hali, Fox, SGA, Tatum, Doncic and i'm forgetting more probably... But no, it's Embiid vs Jokic, like who the hell cares at this point anymore? We're not even at 50% of the season and it's already a hell-hole here. There should probably be a separate sticky thread "Jokic vs Embiid" and you literally fight it out there and let others have a civil discussion here.

It's been like this forever though...remember the Kobe vs. LeBron threads in 2008-2012?

Ideally, we'd have "Jokic vs. Embiid" as a separate thread, because they're the equivalent of that conversation back then - Two that are considered the best in the world (with Giannis/Luka as well), that have been #1 and #2 in MVP voting for a while...because I agree with your point...we don't let the "other young guys" get their shine.

@Mods can we get a (heavily moderated haha) Embiid & Jokic thread? We had a Wemby thread ("For all your Wembanyana needs"), I think we could justify the Emby thread (get it? Wemby? Emby? Ah ok I'll see myself out).

[eyeatoma]

When most people can agree that one player is the MVP for a few years straight, but you have the loud few who like to play devil's advocate, it tends to skew people's attitude towards the devil.

This woulda been Embiid's one year of "Hmm, he really deserves it maybe?" if we rewarded the right guy (that the overwhelming majority considered the right guy, in our environment of realgm).

I'm sure you can see this in other aspects of society as well, when you see a 'wrong'...if Jokic won the 3rd straight, which many people think he deserved, then 28/13/10 on 54% shooting wouldn't be enough in peoples minds.

Not when you can argue that Embiid deserved one or two of them.

1st year lead straw poll at the all star break. Then got hurt. What could have been...

2nd year Jokic turned it up another level. Embiid lost some key matchups after the all star break. Zach Lowe went on a media blitz when he saw Embiid was leading the straw poll and influenced lots of people. There is a tweet from a media member that year saying that the journalists that dont follow the NBA just go with Lowes pick and that he has huge cachè and influence.

3rd year they're both playing great. Jokic leads the straw poll at all star break. Embiid pulls a Jokic and wins a key match up including 50 against Boston to seal the deal. Jokic misses a bunch of games. Jokic fans complain about Embiid skipping the Denver game and now have a new narrative.

Is you're telling me that Embiid didn't deserve to win atleast one of those MVPs then you're probably not giving him a fair shake.



Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

You make valid points. I'd argue that MVP voting should be a weighted system, and not X amount of media members, some of which haven't picked up a basketball in years.

I'd argue it should be weighted, and that there should be some combination of:
Player poll
Coach poll
GM poll
Media poll
and maybe like 2% fan poll

That way everyone gets input because
Players play the game (Which player would make me most successful to try to win a championship)
Coaches coach (Which player would enable my team to win the most games & win a ring)
GM's build teams (Which player would enable the other players + coaches to chase the ultimate goal)
Media ("Neutral" perspective, not in the building)
Fans (Lowest % weighted ranking because there's implicit bias here)

Right now it's a tiny tiny pool of people whose opinions can sway day by day

But we don't live in a perfect world

I do think the media are too invested in who wins the MVP to be honest, I feel like they let their personal bias' come into play. You can say that about players as well, but I feel like players, coaches and GMS are more qualified to make that decision. You could also do something like you suggested where it's a combo, kind of like the all-star voting.

Could do, 25% for each, players, media, coaches and gms. Could give some more weight to people who actually work in the NBA, and lower the media influence.

[LordCovington33]

Right now it’s gotta be Embiid

Why? Philly is 4th in the East and they’ve had a full team the whole season.

A joke, right? One of our highest paid players (Harden) was MIA and the trade never happened till the season started. So much uncertainty because players (outside Embiid and Maxey) didn’t know if they were staying or going. Once he left, the cloud lifted. Kelly Oubre Jr had a massive start to the season and was a contributing factor to our early success (about 20 points a game) and then he got injured and the starting lineup needed to be reshuffled. Embiid has also missed some games, including two in a row because of a cold (Maxey also missed a game because of that same cold). There might be some complete teams, but the sixers have not been one of them.