Best International players who never played in the NBA

[LuDux1]

Could it be that some voters are confusing Alexander Belov, center that scored Olympic game-winner against USA and Sergei Belov all-time scoring leader of USSR NT?

[Bodiroga13]

User name checks out

[Bensonmum]

I've never uderstood why so many people have such a good opinion on Oscar Schmidt. I mean, he was obviously a good player, and a terrific scorer. But that was basically it. He never played in a top European team (I guess there was a good reason why none of those teams were interested in him), he never won anything relevant.

I saw him playing for Valladolid in Spain when I was a teenager; he was already a bit old and still led the league in scoring, but it was pretty obvious that he was just a scorer and nothing else. You can't compare this guy to Bodiroga, who won countless titles that did actually matter.

[OhMyGodBecky]

I've never uderstood why so many people have such a good opinion on Oscar Schmidt. I mean, he was obviously a good player, and a terrific scorer. But that was basically it. He never played in a top European team (I guess there was a good reason why none of those teams were interested in him), he never won anything relevant.

I saw him playing for Valladolid in Spain when I was a teenager; he was already a bit old and still led the league in scoring, but it was pretty obvious that he was just a scorer and nothing else. You can't compare this guy to Bodiroga, who won countless titles that did actually matter.

I think mostly because he thoroughly gaped Team USA at the 87 Pan Am games

[Mirotic12]

Petar Naumoski the legend!

A great player indeed. If Llull is in the poll, then a player like Naumoski probably also should be.

[Mirotic12]

I've never uderstood why so many people have such a good opinion on Oscar Schmidt. I mean, he was obviously a good player, and a terrific scorer. But that was basically it. He never played in a top European team (I guess there was a good reason why none of those teams were interested in him), he never won anything relevant.

I saw him playing for Valladolid in Spain when I was a teenager; he was already a bit old and still led the league in scoring, but it was pretty obvious that he was just a scorer and nothing else. You can't compare this guy to Bodiroga, who won countless titles that did actually matter.

Some of it is nostalgia, just like with some NBA fans, there are some fans of international basketball, national team tournaments, leagues in Europe and such, that will swear that basketball in the '80s and '90s was a million times better than it is now. In reality, the best EuroLeague teams and European national teams from that time are all worse than even average teams now. Some of it is US sports media and NBA media propaganda, which has picked certain international players over the years to prop up, and create a lot of myths and legends about them, with Sabonis being the main one, but guys like Petrovic, Schmidt and Galis get similar treatment. It's obviously part of a marketing gimmick of the NBA, designed to target certain international fan bases. And a lot of those marketing gimmick myths and legends have spread to even European fans. And part of it is just that few people now would take the time to go back and actually watch guys from previous eras playing in a fair amount of games to properly judge them.

And then also because of most people not having the proper context of things. If you see Schmidt's stats, and the same thing goes for guys like Dalipagic, Petrovic and Galis, and you don't understand the proper context, then it's very easy for people to greatly overrate a player like Schmidt. For proper context, one would have to understand how super inflated stats were in some national team tournaments, and also in leagues in Europe back then. Basically, 15-20 points now, is probably like 30-40 points then. Every league in Europe back then had guys guys averaging 30, 35, 40, even over 40 points a game. The level of defense and athleticism was very amateurish compared to today. But those super inflated numbers look and sound so much better. Then there is the context of putting up huge stats, but doing it on teams that are irrelevant, and in second and third class leagues, which is what Schmidt was doing, which is also something different from other players that would belong in such a discussion like this one.

If people just look at stats without such proper context, then they obviously will rate someone like Schmidt as being way better than he actually was, even at his best thing, which was scoring. Then you add in that he played no defense, didn't go for rebounds, didn't pass, and played in teams that never won anything. But how many NBA fans in this site would have ever even heard of the teams or leagues that he played in? Probably very few, so none of this context is there for most.

The truth is, Schmidt was in the all time top tier of world basketball history, in terms of scoring, individual offensive game and shooting, and especially long distance shooting. But he also played for like 12 years in Europe, and never played on a good team, never won jack really (not a single European league or even a national league title), never played in EuroLeague (the best league), never really played any defense, never really tried to rebound, despite being around 6-9 to 6-10 probably, never really passed the ball, never really made his teams better, never really made his teammates better, never really played any semblance of winning basketball...lots of chucking, heat checks, ISO, ball hogging, hero ball, not getting back on defense, being a black hole, and such.

He's in the same boat of some other great players from that era - being guys that were truly great international players, but that have also become enormously overrated, as to how good they actually were, due to a lot of nostalgia, myths and legends, and nonsense like super inflated stats and a vastly inferior level of competition at the time, as compared to now.

Schmidt is certainly one of the best international players ever, but in reality, lots of guys had way better careers than he did in Europe, and I mean lots. Honestly, for him to be winning this poll over someone like Bodiroga is embarrassing. But it's not at all surprising, considering how low the knowledge about basketball in Europe is. Even a lot of the Euro posters here seem to generally have very little historical knowledge about leagues, teams and players in Europe, and a lot of the knowledge they do have, is full of all those myths and legends and nonsense that isn't even true. Even a lot of them will admit they have never even watched EuroLeague for example. Then a lot seem to be just fans of one specific club team or just one specific national team, and a player that was admired or hated by that fan base, can be made out to be like 1,000 times better, or 1,000 times worse than he really was.

[Mirotic12]

Could it be that some voters are confusing Alexander Belov, center that scored Olympic game-winner against USA and Sergei Belov all-time scoring leader of USSR NT?

Definitely possible. A. Belov is probably more well known in USA, while S. Belov is more well-known in Europe.

[aemannarwal]

Me

[mcmurphy]

I've never uderstood why so many people have such a good opinion on Oscar Schmidt. I mean, he was obviously a good player, and a terrific scorer. But that was basically it. He never played in a top European team (I guess there was a good reason why none of those teams were interested in him), he never won anything relevant.

I saw him playing for Valladolid in Spain when I was a teenager; he was already a bit old and still led the league in scoring, but it was pretty obvious that he was just a scorer and nothing else. You can't compare this guy to Bodiroga, who won countless titles that did actually matter.

Some of it is nostalgia, just like with some NBA fans, there are some fans of international basketball, national team tournaments, leagues in Europe and such, that will swear that basketball in the '80s and '90s was a million times better than it is now. In reality, the best EuroLeague teams and European national teams from that time are all worse than even average teams now. Some of it is US sports media and NBA media propaganda, which has picked certain international players over the years to prop up, and create a lot of myths and legends about them, with Sabonis being the main one, but guys like Petrovic, Schmidt and Galis get similar treatment. It's obviously part of a marketing gimmick of the NBA, designed to target certain international fan bases. And a lot of those marketing gimmick myths and legends have spread to even European fans. And part of it is just that few people now would take the time to go back and actually watch guys from previous eras playing in a fair amount of games to properly judge them.

And then also because of most people not having the proper context of things. If you see Schmidt's stats, and the same thing goes for guys like Dalipagic, Petrovic and Galis, and you don't understand the proper context, then it's very easy for people to greatly overrate a player like Schmidt. For proper context, one would have to understand how super inflated stats were in some national team tournaments, and also in leagues in Europe back then. Basically, 15-20 points now, is probably like 30-40 points then. Every league in Europe back then had guys guys averaging 30, 35, 40, even over 40 points a game. The level of defense and athleticism was very amateurish compared to today. But those super inflated numbers look and sound so much better. Then there is the context of putting up huge stats, but doing it on teams that are irrelevant, and in second and third class leagues, which is what Schmidt was doing, which is also something different from other players that would belong in such a discussion like this one.

If people just look at stats without such proper context, then they obviously will rate someone like Schmidt as being way better than he actually was, even at his best thing, which was scoring. Then you add in that he played no defense, didn't go for rebounds, didn't pass, and played in teams that never won anything. But how many NBA fans in this site would have ever even heard of the teams or leagues that he played in? Probably very few, so none of this context is there for most.

The truth is, Schmidt was in the all time top tier of world basketball history, in terms of scoring, individual offensive game and shooting, and especially long distance shooting. But he also played for like 12 years in Europe, and never played on a good team, never won jack really (not a single European league or even a national league title), never played in EuroLeague (the best league), never really played any defense, never really tried to rebound, despite being around 6-9 to 6-10 probably, never really passed the ball, never really made his teams better, never really made his teammates better, never really played any semblance of winning basketball...lots of chucking, heat checks, ISO, ball hogging, hero ball, not getting back on defense, being a black hole, and such.

He's in the same boat of some other great players from that era - being guys that were truly great international players, but that have also become enormously overrated, as to how good they actually were, due to a lot of nostalgia, myths and legends, and nonsense like super inflated stats and a vastly inferior level of competition at the time, as compared to now.

Schmidt is certainly one of the best international players ever, but in reality, lots of guys had way better careers than he did in Europe, and I mean lots. Honestly, for him to be winning this poll over someone like Bodiroga is embarrassing. But it's not at all surprising, considering how low the knowledge about basketball in Europe is. Even a lot of the Euro posters here seem to generally have very little historical knowledge about leagues, teams and players in Europe, and a lot of the knowledge they do have, is full of all those myths and legends and nonsense that isn't even true. Even a lot of them will admit they have never even watched EuroLeague for example. Then a lot seem to be just fans of one specific club team or just one specific national team, and a player that was admired or hated by that fan base, can be made out to be like 1,000 times better, or 1,000 times worse than he really was.

I saw Oscar playing for Caserta from the age of 24 to 32 (1982-1990) when Italian teams dominated European Champions Cups (yes, Champions Cup... not EuroLeague... only the National League winner could partecipate to Champions Cup)... Cantù, Roma and Milan won 4 European Champions Cup over 6 years span (only Cibona of Petrovic interrupted the italian dominion) so for Oscar was impossible to participate in the Champions Cup...

... Oscar was a beast

[BarbaGrizz]

I've never uderstood why so many people have such a good opinion on Oscar Schmidt. I mean, he was obviously a good player, and a terrific scorer. But that was basically it. He never played in a top European team (I guess there was a good reason why none of those teams were interested in him), he never won anything relevant.

I saw him playing for Valladolid in Spain when I was a teenager; he was already a bit old and still led the league in scoring, but it was pretty obvious that he was just a scorer and nothing else. You can't compare this guy to Bodiroga, who won countless titles that did actually matter.

Some of it is nostalgia, just like with some NBA fans, there are some fans of international basketball, national team tournaments, leagues in Europe and such, that will swear that basketball in the '80s and '90s was a million times better than it is now. In reality, the best EuroLeague teams and European national teams from that time are all worse than even average teams now. Some of it is US sports media and NBA media propaganda, which has picked certain international players over the years to prop up, and create a lot of myths and legends about them, with Sabonis being the main one, but guys like Petrovic, Schmidt and Galis get similar treatment. It's obviously part of a marketing gimmick of the NBA, designed to target certain international fan bases. And a lot of those marketing gimmick myths and legends have spread to even European fans. And part of it is just that few people now would take the time to go back and actually watch guys from previous eras playing in a fair amount of games to properly judge them.

And then also because of most people not having the proper context of things. If you see Schmidt's stats, and the same thing goes for guys like Dalipagic, Petrovic and Galis, and you don't understand the proper context, then it's very easy for people to greatly overrate a player like Schmidt. For proper context, one would have to understand how super inflated stats were in some national team tournaments, and also in leagues in Europe back then. Basically, 15-20 points now, is probably like 30-40 points then. Every league in Europe back then had guys guys averaging 30, 35, 40, even over 40 points a game. The level of defense and athleticism was very amateurish compared to today. But those super inflated numbers look and sound so much better. Then there is the context of putting up huge stats, but doing it on teams that are irrelevant, and in second and third class leagues, which is what Schmidt was doing, which is also something different from other players that would belong in such a discussion like this one.

If people just look at stats without such proper context, then they obviously will rate someone like Schmidt as being way better than he actually was, even at his best thing, which was scoring. Then you add in that he played no defense, didn't go for rebounds, didn't pass, and played in teams that never won anything. But how many NBA fans in this site would have ever even heard of the teams or leagues that he played in? Probably very few, so none of this context is there for most.

The truth is, Schmidt was in the all time top tier of world basketball history, in terms of scoring, individual offensive game and shooting, and especially long distance shooting. But he also played for like 12 years in Europe, and never played on a good team, never won jack really (not a single European league or even a national league title), never played in EuroLeague (the best league), never really played any defense, never really tried to rebound, despite being around 6-9 to 6-10 probably, never really passed the ball, never really made his teams better, never really made his teammates better, never really played any semblance of winning basketball...lots of chucking, heat checks, ISO, ball hogging, hero ball, not getting back on defense, being a black hole, and such.

He's in the same boat of some other great players from that era - being guys that were truly great international players, but that have also become enormously overrated, as to how good they actually were, due to a lot of nostalgia, myths and legends, and nonsense like super inflated stats and a vastly inferior level of competition at the time, as compared to now.

Schmidt is certainly one of the best international players ever, but in reality, lots of guys had way better careers than he did in Europe, and I mean lots. Honestly, for him to be winning this poll over someone like Bodiroga is embarrassing. But it's not at all surprising, considering how low the knowledge about basketball in Europe is. Even a lot of the Euro posters here seem to generally have very little historical knowledge about leagues, teams and players in Europe, and a lot of the knowledge they do have, is full of all those myths and legends and nonsense that isn't even true. Even a lot of them will admit they have never even watched EuroLeague for example. Then a lot seem to be just fans of one specific club team or just one specific national team, and a player that was admired or hated by that fan base, can be made out to be like 1,000 times better, or 1,000 times worse than he really was.

Yeah...I´ll take Kobe´s, Larry´s and Barkley´s word over yours.

[Mirotic12]

I saw Oscar playing for Caserta from the age of 24 to 32 (1982-1990) when Italian teams dominated European Champions Cups (yes, Champions Cup... not EuroLeague... only the National League winner could partecipate to Champions Cup)... Cantù, Roma and Milan won 4 European Champions Cup over 6 years span (only Cibona of Petrovic interrupted the italian dominion) so for Oscar was impossible to participate in the Champions Cup...

... Oscar was a beast

Yeah...I´ll take Kobe´s, Larry´s and Barkley´s word over yours.

Schmidt was obviously an incredible scorer and shooter. He was bad at everything else. And the fact is, he never won anything with his clubs teams in Europe. So putting him as THE best international player that never played in the NBA means he is without any question at all being overrated on the poll. Because plenty of guys that never played in the NBA, had better careers in Europe than he did.

You play years and years and years and can't even win a single national league title in Italy or Spain? And he didn't win the second tier (FIBA European Cup) and the third tier (FIBA Korac Cup) European leagues either, and no excuses, because he did play in both of them. So he could have won Italy's League. He didn't. He could have won Spain's league. He didn't. He could have won the second pan European league. He didn't. He could have won the third pan European league. He didn't. And yes, never playing in EuroLeague is a negative on his career in Europe. Objectively, that very clearly won't put rate a player as THE best international player that never played in the NBA.

[txusto]

Dejan Bodiroga, hands down.

But saying that Oscar Schmidt was just a scorer is like saying that Muhammad Ali was just a boxer. Mao Santa was awesome.

[BarbaGrizz]

I saw Oscar playing for Caserta from the age of 24 to 32 (1982-1990) when Italian teams dominated European Champions Cups (yes, Champions Cup... not EuroLeague... only the National League winner could partecipate to Champions Cup)... Cantù, Roma and Milan won 4 European Champions Cup over 6 years span (only Cibona of Petrovic interrupted the italian dominion) so for Oscar was impossible to participate in the Champions Cup...

... Oscar was a beast

Yeah...I´ll take Kobe´s, Larry´s and Barkley´s word over yours.

Schmidt was obviously an incredible scorer and shooter. He was bad at everything else. And the fact is, he never won anything with his clubs teams in Europe. So putting him as THE best international player that never played in the NBA means he is without any question at all being overrated on the poll. Because plenty of guys that never played in the NBA, had better careers in Europe than he did.

You play years and years and years and can't even win a single national league title in Italy or Spain? And he didn't win the second tier (FIBA European Cup) and the third tier (FIBA Korac Cup) European leagues either, and no excuses, because he did play in both of them. So he could have won Italy's League. He didn't. He could have won Spain's league. He didn't. He could have won the second pan European league. He didn't. He could have won the third pan European league. He didn't. And yes, never playing in EuroLeague is a negative on his career in Europe. Objectively, that very clearly won't put rate a player as THE best international player that never played in the NBA.

Yeah...I´ll take Kobe´s, Larry´s and Barkley´s word over yours.

[pbernardi]

While I do agree with most of criticism for Oscar Schmidt, I do not think people realize how special he was offensivelly.

He shot 45% (!!) from three (FIBA) on 8.5 attempts per game on end of 80´s and 90´s. I think he was not in a big club just because the coaches just could not fit him inside their system - nobody had such green light to fire 3 at this rate on 80´s and 90´s. It just the coaches and the basketball mentality were not ready for him yet, Oscar was like 20 years ahead of his time.

I can hardly imagine what Oscar could do in a system prepared for such playstyle, playing with and against NBA-level talent. It is one of the most intriguing "what if" alternate bbal reality in my opinion.

[eminence]

Tkachenko is still my pick.

[Mirotic12]

People seem to want to make excuses for Oscar never winning anything in 13 years in Europe, and blame his teams and coaches and not him, even though usually the best player on the team takes the most credit and also the most blame.

Even if we don't put a negative on him for not winning, what about the fact that he was only named to the All European selection (each year's 10 best club players in Europe) one time in 13 years? I mean really one time? And in Oscar's era, anyone that played in European competitions was eligible. As long as you played in Europe somewhere at that time, you were in the voting candidates, meaning that he was an eligible candidate in all 13 seasons. It's just hard to objectively say that's worth the best international player that never played in the NBA.

Just for some comparisons, Vassilis Spanoulis 9 European selections, Juan Carlos Navarro 7 European selections, Juan Antonio Corbalan 7 European selections, Dejan Bodiroga 7 European selections, Kresimir Cosic 6 European selections, Nando De Colo 6 European selections, Milos Teodosic 6 European selections....etc., etc., etc. And for the point of this discussion, just among those guys, Corbalan, Bodiroga, and Cosic never played in the NBA.

But just one time in the European selection in 13 years for Oscar....just one time that he was voted by the coaches, players, media and fans as one of the 10 best players that were currently playing in Europe. It isn't just some fans in this thread that felt like his refusal to play defense, to rebound, and to pass the ball hurt his teams.

[Swish1906]

Healthy prime Sabonis. Because the NBA Sabonis was already a totally different (and worse) player

[SNPA]

Last year’s Euro league MVP struggled to find a rotation spot in Sac catching lots of CD-DNP. It makes who would translate hard to gauge.