RealGM

The team is together and he's got Kyrie and Luka happy. He may not be great at in game adjustments, but he's decent enough as a head coach that you live with it considering the best players on the team like and respect him.

ChipotleWest wrote:

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:

ChipotleWest wrote:He still cost us Game 4 with his decision to play Maxi the entire 4th as the only rim protector and Harden exploited, I will never change my mind about that.

But I do love how the entire team has bought into defense. I don't know how much that's him or just the team deciding to do it but he's the coach he deserves credit.

I don't think having Lively or Gafford in the game instead of Kleber would have made a difference. The problem was that Luka guarded him and Harden went past him every time. If the shot-blocker closes to hard on Harden there is the lob pass to Zubac, if not, it is a lay-up. The exact same play happened with Lively in today's game and he played exactly the same way as Kleber.

Kidd cant make Luka move his feet for him.

0 floaters outside of that quarter proves otherwise. Harden scored the most points he'd ever scored in a quarter that quarter.

The floaters he made were some great shots and looking at them again I don't see Lively or Gafford altering them. It's just very hard to stop floaters when the shooter gets past his defender and Zubac is ready for the lob pass.

By the way, I said got past Luka every time, but there were multiple defenders and he got past them all.

Like, how does Lively/Gafford guard this differently? If he gets closer to Harden Zubac gets the lob. The problem is just great offense from Harden.
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/614/5c71a1e7-c466-0523-1d8d-0c20fb7cfeeb_1280x720.mp4

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:

ChipotleWest wrote:He still cost us Game 4 with his decision to play Maxi the entire 4th as the only rim protector and Harden exploited, I will never change my mind about that.

But I do love how the entire team has bought into defense. I don't know how much that's him or just the team deciding to do it but he's the coach he deserves credit.

I don't think having Lively or Gafford in the game instead of Kleber would have made a difference. The problem was that Luka guarded him and Harden went past him every time. If the shot-blocker closes to hard on Harden there is the lob pass to Zubac, if not, it is a lay-up. The exact same play happened with Lively in today's game and he played exactly the same way as Kleber.

Kidd cant make Luka move his feet for him.

It didn't even have to be instead of Kleber, you can still play Kleber when Lively or Gafford is in. The mistake was going small for the entire 4th quarter. There was a stretch in the regular season where Kidd became enamored with playing Kleber at the 5 and slashed Gafford's minutes in particular, it was a massive failure. That was the post trade stretch where they lost 5 out of 6 games. They came back from 31 in that game only to blow it in the 4th quarter where Kidd went away from what was working and dared the Clippers to attack the rim. This series shouldn't have even lasted 6 with state of Kawhi

mademan wrote:The team is together and he's got Kyrie and Luka happy. He may not be great at in game adjustments, but he's decent enough as a head coach that you live with it considering the best players on the team like and respect him.

this is a very underrated part.....considering this is Kyrie we talking about, and Luka not being happy with Rick Carlisle

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:

ChipotleWest wrote:

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:
I don't think having Lively or Gafford in the game instead of Kleber would have made a difference. The problem was that Luka guarded him and Harden went past him every time. If the shot-blocker closes to hard on Harden there is the lob pass to Zubac, if not, it is a lay-up. The exact same play happened with Lively in today's game and he played exactly the same way as Kleber.

Kidd cant make Luka move his feet for him.

0 floaters outside of that quarter proves otherwise. Harden scored the most points he'd ever scored in a quarter that quarter.

The floaters he made were some great shots and looking at them again I don't see Lively or Gafford altering them. It's just very hard to stop floaters when the shooter gets past his defender and Zubac is ready for the lob pass.

By the way, I said got past Luka every time, but there were multiple defenders and he got past them all.

Like, how does Lively/Gafford guard this differently? If he gets closer to Harden Zubac gets the lob. The problem is just great offense from Harden.
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/614/5c71a1e7-c466-0523-1d8d-0c20fb7cfeeb_1280x720.mp4

He got in the lane plenty in other quarters, but it wasn't a huge issue when Lively or Gafford was in there, I don't know how 0 floaters in other quarters doesn't register something but it has a lot of meaning. Maxi has good qualities but rim protector isn't one of them. He could have played with Lively or Gafford at the same time. There was no reason to bench both. He hasn't since and we've pretty much destroyed the Clippers ever since.

bad coaches tend to get hired by low end teams, and also as stated before, they get too much credit and too much blame

kidd aint bad and he aint great, that puts him with the other 90% of coaches

ChipotleWest wrote:

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:

ChipotleWest wrote:
0 floaters outside of that quarter proves otherwise. Harden scored the most points he'd ever scored in a quarter that quarter.

The floaters he made were some great shots and looking at them again I don't see Lively or Gafford altering them. It's just very hard to stop floaters when the shooter gets past his defender and Zubac is ready for the lob pass.

By the way, I said got past Luka every time, but there were multiple defenders and he got past them all.

Like, how does Lively/Gafford guard this differently? If he gets closer to Harden Zubac gets the lob. The problem is just great offense from Harden.
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/614/5c71a1e7-c466-0523-1d8d-0c20fb7cfeeb_1280x720.mp4

He got in the lane plenty in other quarters, but it wasn't a huge issue when Lively or Gafford was in there, I don't know how 0 floaters in other quarters doesn't register something but it has a lot of meaning. Maxi has good qualities but rim protector isn't one of them. He could have played with Lively or Gafford at the same time. There was no reason to bench both. He hasn't since and we've pretty much destroyed the Clippers ever since.

He made just the same plays earlier in the series when Gafford and Lively. It's just impossible to stop when he gets past his defender, has enough space and Zubac is right under the basket.

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/394/fe7fd88f-6861-4335-97e0-4a7a67cc72bd_1280x720.mp4

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/610/345bcac5-29ba-9d03-d617-ac446043b162_1280x720.mp4

I don't buy the idea that he had that shot plenty of times, but past it up because of the shotblocker.

The reason why Kleber plays instead of Lively and Gafford is because of spacing and the ability to guard the perimeter. The Clippers did the exact same thing against Mavs in 21. Zubac started the series playing 15 minutes per game and in game 7 he had like under 2 minutes. Morris started at the 5 because he provided spacing and perimeter defense.

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:

ChipotleWest wrote:

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:
The floaters he made were some great shots and looking at them again I don't see Lively or Gafford altering them. It's just very hard to stop floaters when the shooter gets past his defender and Zubac is ready for the lob pass.

By the way, I said got past Luka every time, but there were multiple defenders and he got past them all.

Like, how does Lively/Gafford guard this differently? If he gets closer to Harden Zubac gets the lob. The problem is just great offense from Harden.
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/614/5c71a1e7-c466-0523-1d8d-0c20fb7cfeeb_1280x720.mp4

He got in the lane plenty in other quarters, but it wasn't a huge issue when Lively or Gafford was in there, I don't know how 0 floaters in other quarters doesn't register something but it has a lot of meaning. Maxi has good qualities but rim protector isn't one of them. He could have played with Lively or Gafford at the same time. There was no reason to bench both. He hasn't since and we've pretty much destroyed the Clippers ever since.

He made just the same plays earlier in the series when Gafford and Lively. It's just impossible to stop when he gets past his defender, has enough space and Zubac is right under the basket.

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/394/fe7fd88f-6861-4335-97e0-4a7a67cc72bd_1280x720.mp4

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/610/345bcac5-29ba-9d03-d617-ac446043b162_1280x720.mp4

I don't buy the idea that he had that shot plenty of times, but past it up because of the shotblocker.

The reason why Kleber plays instead of Lively and Gafford is because of spacing and the ability to guard the perimeter. The Clippers did the exact same thing against Mavs in 21. Zubac started the series playing 15 minutes per game and in game 7 he had like under 2 minutes. Morris started at the 5 because he provided spacing and perimeter defense.

So we'll just go with Harden made 5 floaters when Maxi was the only center, 0 the rest of the series, and Harden broke his personal record for most points in a quarter when Maxi was the only center, and was most relegated to being a 3 point shooter in all the other quarters this series, and all of that is a coincidence. Can't just blame the perimeter defense, because the center is the last line of defense.

You don't have to be desperate to cover for Maxi. That is exactly what it appears to be. He was awful that quarter. However in Game 5 he hit 5 3's so he was great. You see? it's not the end of the world bro.

Not a good on the field coach (in terms of time out, after TO plays) but if he is getting great production from Kyrie compared to his prior stints in Boston and with the Nets he is passable.

Yes. If the Mavs had Degnault, they could probably win the whole thing. With Kidd, I don't really see that.

ChipotleWest wrote:

dirkdiggler4177 wrote:

ChipotleWest wrote:
He got in the lane plenty in other quarters, but it wasn't a huge issue when Lively or Gafford was in there, I don't know how 0 floaters in other quarters doesn't register something but it has a lot of meaning. Maxi has good qualities but rim protector isn't one of them. He could have played with Lively or Gafford at the same time. There was no reason to bench both. He hasn't since and we've pretty much destroyed the Clippers ever since.

He made just the same plays earlier in the series when Gafford and Lively. It's just impossible to stop when he gets past his defender, has enough space and Zubac is right under the basket.

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/394/fe7fd88f-6861-4335-97e0-4a7a67cc72bd_1280x720.mp4

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/610/345bcac5-29ba-9d03-d617-ac446043b162_1280x720.mp4

I don't buy the idea that he had that shot plenty of times, but past it up because of the shotblocker.

The reason why Kleber plays instead of Lively and Gafford is because of spacing and the ability to guard the perimeter. The Clippers did the exact same thing against Mavs in 21. Zubac started the series playing 15 minutes per game and in game 7 he had like under 2 minutes. Morris started at the 5 because he provided spacing and perimeter defense.

So we'll just go with Harden made 5 floaters when Maxi was the only center, 0 the rest of the series, and Harden broke his personal record for most points in a quarter when Maxi was the only center, and was most relegated to being a 3 point shooter in all the other quarters this series, and all of that is a coincidence. Can't just blame the perimeter defense, because the center is the last line of defense.

You don't have to be desperate to cover for Maxi. That is exactly what it appears to be. He was awful that quarter. However in Game 5 he hit 5 3's so he was great. You see? it's not the end of the world bro.

I disagree when you look at the shots. Harden wide open because nobody picks him up. Lively can't stop that floater.
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/530/2403c32d-0d82-5da4-b0c1-0deb8832a989_1280x720.mp4

No center would be able to stop a shot like this
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/580/8701edad-c5f1-b1d0-cce2-00f3fc7d7618_1280x720.mp4

He could have been quicker to the ball here, but that results in a lob for Zubac or open 3 pointer for Mann
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/582/e7bc9ebc-3284-69aa-a909-9ecd0efbdd3b_1280x720.mp4

Lively and Gafford would been left on a island on this one
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/586/7bdea857-c4ad-3bb5-f2f3-d3f120d9a856_1280x720.mp4

If Kleber helps more Zubac is right there for the lob
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/602/ad9a561c-b051-0df8-bde6-f2d801a1521e_1280x720.mp4

Same with this one
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/28/0042300174/614/5c71a1e7-c466-0523-1d8d-0c20fb7cfeeb_1280x720.mp4

Harden not daring for the layup because of Gafford
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/23/0042300172/245/35fffc11-58cc-b1f5-fd4e-a82771163218_1280x720.mp4

Harden missing the floater because of Lively blocks the shot
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/26/0042300173/292/f3a03b66-051c-506f-bace-5e2d59bae9d1_1280x720.mp4

Harden missing the floater because Lively was in the game
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/01/0042300175/82/8893f2cb-0798-f387-9eb8-4d3179da5d03_1280x720.mp4

Again he does not make it because Lively is there
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/01/0042300175/103/fd19c100-3818-35a4-5119-0304c54e3625_1280x720.mp4

Gafford blocks the floater. Bad perimeter defense, but Gafford saved the day
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/01/0042300175/169/3a62e04f-7eab-2f30-fcba-aba4545dc080_1280x720.mp4

Another blocked floater by Gafford
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/223/04e498f2-c944-5960-aba6-8bc349bb58fe_1280x720.mp4

Just luck this time, great contest by Gafford
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/394/fe7fd88f-6861-4335-97e0-4a7a67cc72bd_1280x720.mp4

Lively straight into Harden's face and almost blocks. Incredible defense. Can't picture Kleber being able to do the same
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/03/0042300176/610/345bcac5-29ba-9d03-d617-ac446043b162_1280x720.mp4

mademan wrote:The team is together and he's got Kyrie and Luka happy. He may not be great at in game adjustments, but he's decent enough as a head coach that you live with it considering the best players on the team like and respect him.

It's this for me: he seems to be a player's coach. Yet to hear of any soundbites where players criticise Kidd but there seems to be plenty of evidence to the contrary with Giannis, Brunson, Luka/Ky et al

And he is extended now, so the Mavericks think that he is a good coach.

People tend to like extremes. I don't think he was ever truly terrible, he was never a bottom 5 coach. And he is also not a top 5 coach. I put him around the middle, and like many others he rises and falls in that range depending on the day. I think that also makes him a bad choice for a championship contender where the coaches typically are going to be in the upper third of the league, which I do not believe he is.

Yes - add a poll! Watch the outcome

CobraCommander wrote:Yes - add a poll! Watch the outcome

And I know if I did the same for Ty Lue, unfortunately a lot of people will call him a great coach, when Jason Kidd just kicked his ass.

DLoMor wrote:

CobraCommander wrote:Yes - add a poll! Watch the outcome

And I know if I did the same for Ty Lue, unfortunately a lot of people will call him a great coach, when Jason Kidd just kicked his ass.

Wait the team with Luka and Kyrie kicked the team with Harden and PG13 in a playoff series -

Playoff Luka and championship big shot big game -most skilled player ever - wave off Lebron and Bury a 3 over Curry Kyrie

Vs

Playoff Harden and Playoff P….

The two WORSE playoffs performing superstars in the history of nba basketball?

This wasn’t coaching - this was inevitable-
Luka is one of the best playoff players ever and Kyrie is KYRIE!!!!
Luka and Kyrie walked into this series thinking - who we playing in the next round?

Playoff P and Harden came into the series trying to plan their next contract and schedule their vacations



I could have coached the Mavs-

Lue lucky to have gotten two good games out of these
Clowns