6'9.5" to 6'10" Bill Russell had a greater standing reach than 7'1" Wilt, 7'2" Kareem, and 7'4" Ralph Sampson

[dhsilv2]

Just google KAJ & Russell. KAJ shoulder almost starts at Russells chin. KAJ was super long as well but again you'd need crocdile arms when you have that much of an advantage to make up. Re: Wilt - yes and look how high he had to time his jumps with a 9'6 standing reach. Russell for his size had amazing length but the other two were even taller with just as crazy length. The logic in the articles just doesn't make sense here, that's all.

Russell looks to me to have longer arms relative to his body than either of these two and by a lot. Especially given how narrow his build is. That's why I don't think this is wild. Height and standing reach correlate for sure but with already freaking tall people...you have AD types who just don't have a huge standing reach despite having a huge wing span and vice versa.

Yeah man, certainly not arguing here, except again that KAJ/Wilt were just as freakish and I am sure you've seen the pic of Wilt standing reach under the basket. It literally means Russell could almost dunking without jumping. That's all.

That doesn't sound that wild to me. However that kinda ignore hand size. If you have really long fingers/hands the ball sitting at the base will be further from dunking than if you have shorter hands all else equal. This can be a few inches and Bill had wildly long hands which would require more of a jump even if the standing reaches were the same.

I mean, Russell seems to jump so effortlessly he's often getting a good vertical but he sure doesn't seem to need to jump that high to dunk. Around the 1 minute that two footed jump doesn't look like he got much more than his hand length off the floor give or take an inch or two.

Watch on YouTube

[MacGill]

Russell looks to me to have longer arms relative to his body than either of these two and by a lot. Especially given how narrow his build is. That's why I don't think this is wild. Height and standing reach correlate for sure but with already freaking tall people...you have AD types who just don't have a huge standing reach despite having a huge wing span and vice versa.

Yeah man, certainly not arguing here, except again that KAJ/Wilt were just as freakish and I am sure you've seen the pic of Wilt standing reach under the basket. It literally means Russell could almost dunking without jumping. That's all.

That doesn't sound that wild to me. However that kinda ignore hand size. If you have really long fingers/hands the ball sitting at the base will be further from dunking than if you have shorter hands all else equal. This can be a few inches and Bill had wildly long hands which would require more of a jump even if the standing reaches were the same.

I mean, Russell seems to jump so effortlessly he's often getting a good vertical but he sure doesn't seem to need to jump that high to dunk. Around the 1 minute that two footed jump doesn't look like he got much more than his hand length off the floor give or take an inch or two.

Watch on YouTube

I think we're getting away from the topic here. Again, Russell had amazing length for a pro under 7ft tall. Not sure why OP is acting like we're all new to this and it's the first time anyone has ever tried to explain length diffences, hand size differences etc. The psot speaks to Russell being able to place his hand on the basketball at the top of KAJ's out stretched arm. Meaning that at minimal, based on the size of a basketball, that's a 10 inch standing reach advantage. So again, understanding that KAJ/Wilt were both tall, long, and high standing reach players it places Russell at over a 10' standing reach alone, which we 100% know not to be true.

Ease of dunking means nothing because all the players are easily equipped to do so based on their height, length and 10 foot rim. Wilt only needed 6 inches of vertical to touch the rim and under 12 inches to dunk.

[MacGill]

Duplicate

[Effigy]

The photo isn't meant to represent the story in the article. Neither Russell nor Swede are fully stretched out, reaching as high as they can. Bill's 10.5" long hands are most likely longer than Swede's per the DX measurement database and shoulder flexbility heavily influences standing reach. The 1955 article specifically mentions that Bill could reach higher than Swede. The guy who runs the Wilt Chamberlain Archive mentioned it in the description of this video. He's the guy who has gone through countless old newspaper archives:

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Number one: The article specifically says that in a photo op Halbrook is raising the ball as high as he can. We can see the picture. That's not what he's doing.

Number two: While it's true neither guy is extending as far as they can, Russell is much closer to being fully extended than Halbrook is.

Look at the game footage, specifically the jump ball between Swede and Bill. It's quite clear Bill has the superior reach:

All I can tell is that Russel jumped faster and higher than Halbrick. I'm not suggesting that Russell isn't the superior athlete or player, lol.

[FrodoBaggins]

Number one: The article specifically says that in a photo op Halbrook is raising the ball as high as he can. We can see the picture. That's not what he's doing.

Number two: While it's true neither guy is extending as far as they can, Russell is much closer to being fully extended than Halbrook is.

Look at the game footage, specifically the jump ball between Swede and Bill. It's quite clear Bill has the superior reach:

All I can tell is that Russel jumped faster and higher than Halbrick. I'm not suggesting that Russell isn't the superior athlete or player, lol.

Bill is simply just longer in the arms and hands and has a much smaller head and higher-set shoulders. It's not complicated. Look at this frame: there's easily close to 5" of height between their head height there:

[dhsilv2]

Yeah man, certainly not arguing here, except again that KAJ/Wilt were just as freakish and I am sure you've seen the pic of Wilt standing reach under the basket. It literally means Russell could almost dunking without jumping. That's all.

That doesn't sound that wild to me. However that kinda ignore hand size. If you have really long fingers/hands the ball sitting at the base will be further from dunking than if you have shorter hands all else equal. This can be a few inches and Bill had wildly long hands which would require more of a jump even if the standing reaches were the same.

I mean, Russell seems to jump so effortlessly he's often getting a good vertical but he sure doesn't seem to need to jump that high to dunk. Around the 1 minute that two footed jump doesn't look like he got much more than his hand length off the floor give or take an inch or two.

Watch on YouTube

I think we're getting away from the topic here. Again, Russell had amazing length for a pro under 7ft tall. Not sure why OP is acting like we're all new to this and it's the first time anyone has ever tried to explain length diffences, hand size differences etc. The psot speaks to Russell being able to place his hand on the basketball at the top of KAJ's out stretched arm. Meaning that at minimal, based on the size of a basketball, that's a 10 inch standing reach advantage. So again, understanding that KAJ/Wilt were both tall, long, and high standing reach players it places Russell at over a 10' standing reach alone, which we 100% know not to be true.

Ease of dunking means nothing because all the players are easily equipped to do so based on their height, length and 10 foot rim. Wilt only needed 6 inches of vertical to touch the rim and under 12 inches to dunk.

I think the bigger point is that Russell had amazing reach for anyone to ever play, period. If he's touching the top of the ball on KAJ...I'm not buying that. But if Bill's standing reach was about the same as Kareem or Wilt? I don't think that's out of the range. I think OP's gone too far with some of this because that era was the era of tall stories. Wilt and Arnold alone have told more insane stories from those decades than anyone about any era ever.

[FrodoBaggins]

Last post, as we all know Russell had great length, but Victor's standing reach is 9.8". Wilt was 9'6, I believe and Shaq 9'4". A basketball is under just under 10 inches in height, so I am sure we can all see what would be needed to exceed these giants incredible length. I doubt even Victor could even touch the top of a basketball in Wilt's out stretched arm. And I don't think we're going to argue Victor standing reach is less.....

There's no official standing reach measurement for Victor as far as I know. It's rumored he's in the 9'10" to 10' range.

Wilt was 9'6" barefoot. Shaq was 9'5" in shoes.

And Kareem was 7'2" barefoot with a 7'5" wingspan. His measurements are very similar to Hasheem Thabeet, who measured in at a 9'5" standing reach.

[Harry Palmer]

Russell’s 7’4” wingspan at 6’10” is remarkable. However at nearly the same height Hakeem had a 7’6” wingspan.

[Effigy]

Look at the game footage, specifically the jump ball between Swede and Bill. It's quite clear Bill has the superior reach:

All I can tell is that Russel jumped faster and higher than Halbrick. I'm not suggesting that Russell isn't the superior athlete or player, lol.

Bill is simply just longer in the arms and hands and has a much smaller head and higher-set shoulders. It's not complicated. Look at this frame: there's easily close to 5" of height between their head height there:

Look at their feet. Bill's like 5 inches higher up in the air. His shoulders are above Halbrook's shoulders. Despite being 5 inches shorter. The question was standing reach. Neither of these players is standing.

[FrodoBaggins]

Russell’s 7’4” wingspan at 6’10” is remarkable. However at nearly the same height Hakeem had a 7’6” wingspan.

DJ Tugler has a 7'6.5" wingspan and he's only 6'6" barefoot. BeeJay Anya is 6'8" barefoot, and has a 7'9" wingspan, but only a 9'3" standing reach.

Hakeem has good measurements but he doesn't have the hand length or standing reach of Bill Russell or Tim Duncan.

[Harry Palmer]

Russell’s 7’4” wingspan at 6’10” is remarkable. However at nearly the same height Hakeem had a 7’6” wingspan.

DJ Tugler has a 7'6.5" wingspan and he's only 6'6" barefoot. BeeJay Anya is 6'8" barefoot, and has a 7'9" wingspan, but only a 9'3" standing reach.

Hakeem has good measurements but he doesn't have the hand length or standing reach of Bill Russell or Tim Duncan.

Where do you get that? For example Hakeem’s hands were 10.5” long (same as Russell) and his handspan was 11.75”.

[FrodoBaggins]

Russell’s 7’4” wingspan at 6’10” is remarkable. However at nearly the same height Hakeem had a 7’6” wingspan.

DJ Tugler has a 7'6.5" wingspan and he's only 6'6" barefoot. BeeJay Anya is 6'8" barefoot, and has a 7'9" wingspan, but only a 9'3" standing reach.

Hakeem has good measurements but he doesn't have the hand length or standing reach of Bill Russell or Tim Duncan.

Where do you get that? For example Hakeem’s hands were 10.5” long (same as Russell) and his handspan was 11.75”.

Please provide a source for Hakeem's hand length measurement. Bill's 10.5" hand length was from The Rivalry: Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and the Golden Age of Basketball by John Taylor.

That Hakeem measurement is made up. It looks like you got it from this site: https://www.interbasket.net/news/biggest-hand-in-nba/37749/

While his hand measurements aren’t officially recorded, Olajuwon’s exceptional footwork and post moves helped him secure two NBA championships and the title of NBA MVP.

They just made it up.

[MacGill]

Last post, as we all know Russell had great length, but Victor's standing reach is 9.8". Wilt was 9'6, I believe and Shaq 9'4". A basketball is under just under 10 inches in height, so I am sure we can all see what would be needed to exceed these giants incredible length. I doubt even Victor could even touch the top of a basketball in Wilt's out stretched arm. And I don't think we're going to argue Victor standing reach is less.....

There's no official standing reach measurement for Victor as far as I know. It's rumored he's in the 9'10" to 10' range.

Wilt was 9'6" barefoot. Shaq was 9'5" in shoes.

And Kareem was 7'2" barefoot with a 7'5" wingspan. His measurements are very similar to Hasheem Thabeet, who measured in at a 9'5" standing reach.

Tons of practice footage of Victor, solo, playng on the court and standing reaching under the hoop. It's all there. The point, just like if I could touch a 10 foot rim, I still need to be able to elevate higher because of the the circumference of the ball to be able to dunk, hence why a vertical jump is needed. Go measure a basketball and convince yourself that his standing reach was that much more than players taller and equally as long, or longer. No matter how you want to slice it, Russell's shoulders were noticebly lower than KAJ so even with shorter arms, he is starting from a lower starting point. He then has to make up those inches in standing reach but exceed KAJ's reach by an additional 10+ inches . Look at Wilt and KAJ side by side, shoulder height very close, and both higher than Russell's.

You're basically insinuating that Russell's standing reach was easily over 10 feet which 10000000000000%%%%%% would have been caught on camera and advertised a'la Wilt back in those days if there existed such a feat based on their rivalry. Anyhow, carry on man! I'm at peace with this thread, no need to quote me back.

[Lalouie]

i don't know how kareem's standing reach compares to others,,,,but he had a longer frikkk'n neck that most...an inch at least

frankly i think he had to be physically more gifted to insure that his 7'2 did what it was supposed to do, because i think just standing,,,he was shorter than wilt

[SNPA]

Holding the ball needs some defining. Holding a ball in one hand for guys this size would generally mean palming it. If the hand is on the side of the ball, in normal alignment with the wrist, it’s not gaining much if any height to a standing reach.

If the player makes roughly a 90 degree angle with the wrist and essentially has the hand as a platform, the player loses the hand high but gains the ball height. It’s the difference that would matter in that scenario.

Either way, you can’t just add ball height to standing reach height and say that’s the number and Bill has to be a full hand above that.

[D.Brasco]

i don't know how kareem's standing reach compares to others,,,,but he had a longer frikkk'n neck that most...an inch at least

frankly i think he had to be physically more gifted to insure that his 7'2 did what it was supposed to do, because i think just standing,,,he was shorter than wilt

I'm sure Kareem had a great reach but a long neck in the basketball sense is wasted height as you can't do headers like in soccer.

KD's limbs are proportioned like a 7 footer but he has a pretty short neck which is why he measures under that height.

[FrodoBaggins]

Last post, as we all know Russell had great length, but Victor's standing reach is 9.8". Wilt was 9'6, I believe and Shaq 9'4". A basketball is under just under 10 inches in height, so I am sure we can all see what would be needed to exceed these giants incredible length. I doubt even Victor could even touch the top of a basketball in Wilt's out stretched arm. And I don't think we're going to argue Victor standing reach is less.....

There's no official standing reach measurement for Victor as far as I know. It's rumored he's in the 9'10" to 10' range.

Wilt was 9'6" barefoot. Shaq was 9'5" in shoes.

And Kareem was 7'2" barefoot with a 7'5" wingspan. His measurements are very similar to Hasheem Thabeet, who measured in at a 9'5" standing reach.

Tons of practice footage of Victor, solo, playng on the court and standing reaching under the hoop. It's all there. The point, just like if I could touch a 10 foot rim, I still need to be able to elevate higher because of the the circumference of the ball to be able to dunk, hence why a vertical jump is needed. Go measure a basketball and convince yourself that his standing reach was that much more than players taller and equally as long, or longer. No matter how you want to slice it, Russell's shoulders were noticebly lower than KAJ so even with shorter arms, he is starting from a lower starting point. He then has to make up those inches in standing reach but exceed KAJ's reach by an additional 10+ inches . Look at Wilt and KAJ side by side, shoulder height very close, and both higher than Russell's.

You're basically insinuating that Russell's standing reach was easily over 10 feet which 10000000000000%%%%%% would have been caught on camera and advertised a'la Wilt back in those days if there existed such a feat based on their rivalry. Anyhow, carry on man! I'm at peace with this thread, no need to quote me back.

Wemby measured in at a 9'8" standing reach when he was only 7'1". He has since grown to 7'3.5". His reach was only 4 cms below the rim according to Windhorst, putting his standing reach around 9'10" to 9'11".

[FrodoBaggins]

i don't know how kareem's standing reach compares to others,,,,but he had a longer frikkk'n neck that most...an inch at least

frankly i think he had to be physically more gifted to insure that his 7'2 did what it was supposed to do, because i think just standing,,,he was shorter than wilt

Without a doubt. Nate Thurmond, Wilt Chamberlain, and Bill Russell all had him beat when it came to standing reach and arm length. What made Kareem special was his coordination, balance, agility, and basketball skills at that height. He had great size but it wasn't as effective/functional as his raw height advertised. Anthropometric measures are important but so is athleticism and being able to actually translate physical gifts to the basketball court with great skills.

[AleksandarN]

Looking up Jokic’s physical stats. 6’11.5” with a wingspan of 7’3” and 9’3” standing reach. What’s interesting is this blurb

https://revupsports.com/athletes/basketball/nikola-jokic/discover/what-are-nikola-jokics-physical-stats/

Despite his impressive physical stature, Jokic's vertical is not as impressive. In 2014, Jokic worked out at Peak Performance Project (P3) sports clinic in Santa Barbara, California, where his vertical was one of the lowest on record, but not published. Some have joked that he only has a vertical of 5 inches, which is surely not true. What matters more than vertical jump, however, is how quickly a player can get to the ball. In P3's 10.6 drill, which measures how fast an athlete can get their hand to a spot 10.6 feet off the ground, Jokic was in the top 10 of all time. This indicates that Jokic's quickness and agility are just as impressive as his size and strength.

[FrodoBaggins]

Looking up Jokic’s physical stats. 6’11.5” with a wingspan of 7’3” and 9’3”. What’s interesting is this burb

Despite his impressive physical stature, Jokic's vertical is not as impressive. In 2014, Jokic worked out at Peak Performance Project (P3) sports clinic in Santa Barbara, California, where his vertical was one of the lowest on record, but not published. Some have joked that he only has a vertical of 5 inches, which is surely not true. What matters more than vertical jump, however, is how quickly a player can get to the ball. In P3's 10.6 drill, which measures how fast an athlete can get their hand to a spot 10.6 feet off the ground, Jokic was in the top 10 of all time. This indicates that Jokic's quickness and agility are just as impressive as his size and strength.

Absolutely. People have laughed at me when I've said Jokic is a quick jumper. He gets off the ground extremely quickly, just not very high. Zach Randolph was similar; both were able to perform rapid quick jumps in succession to secure rebounds. Jokic put up the best z-bound season on record in 2023-24. 81 of them in 79 games, despite shooting such a high FG%.

https://www.pbpstats.com/totals/nba/player?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular+Season&Type=Player&StatType=Totals&Table=Rebounds

I think Rookie (2010-11) Blake Griffin is second-best with 75 z-bounds in 82 games:

https://www.pbpstats.com/totals/nba/player?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular+Season&Type=Player&Table=Rebounds&StatType=Totals

The stat for player's offensive rebound off his own unblocked missed shot is called a Z-bound. Since the 2000-01 season (which is how far back the data goes).