Bigger achievement...MJ 6 titles or Maradona winning 2 titles with Napoli?

[UcanUwill]

Jordan I guess. Napoli didn’t win Champions League in those years and isn’t that the equivalent of an nba title? maybe I’m ignorant but it seems harder to win than any of the domestic leagues.

I think stuff like Champions league has far more roll of dice luck involved, for best team, I think domestic is easier to win, CL is far harder to win, but for more underdog team, CL title would be more likely to win, I assume, because you can luck out more, its not single elimination, its too leg play offs, but on good run, you could just roll on, where domestic league is a long marathon and would be very hard for non favorite to win. Thats why Lester winning Premier was so unlikely, if they won any cup, it wouldn't have been much of a story.

By this logic wouldn’t it be more difficult for an nba team to have the best regular season record than win the championship?

Well, my point, is depending on team. What would be harder for team USA to do, finish first in 82 game season vs other FIBA teams, or win Olympic tourney? For them, finishing first reg season would be easy, guarantee they do that, but win Olympics is not as easy, where one game and you out.
But then take Serbia, would it be easier for them to win 82 game reg season vs USA and other teams, or win Olympics? hard either way, but they would take their chances winning Olympics.

Comparing NBA regular season as is is not really fair, because having best regular season record in the NBA, doesn't win anything. If Play offs didn't exist, and it was like Football, where just team with best record at the end is the champion, Regular season would spike in difficulty.

Thats why I think Play off model is a bit broken. I like play offs, but in Football, first game of the season, is just as important as the last, I watched Early Septemter games already and I am on the edge of my seat, you just cant drop points! Where in Basketball for example, who cares if you lose November game, it doesn't mean anything almost, unless it comes down to like one game whenever you make play offs or not, it kinda matters, but overall, we all watch NBA regular season, but why tho, it is so unimportant? Thats why some Euros like Teletovic said he hated playing in the NBA, because it was so boring, he said you just grind 80 games that dont mean anything.

[GSWFan1994]

It took me a long ass time to realize yall weren’t talking about the pop star Madonna.

Is this like if bron went back to back in 15 and 16?

So you and Durden Tyler telling us you don't know, a probably top 3 most famous athlete of all time? Dudes, its passive agressive trolling, if you do not care for the comparison, do not comment, it is not hard. This forum is the only reason why I know who Ohtani is, I would never know who that is, but I learned it from here and I am happy, I know more, I don't go to Ohtani thread and troll how hes irrelevant to my eyes because he plays a weird sport to me.

0 trolling, I deadass just want to know the answer to the question I asked and if people think Ronaldo better than him because that’s the best player I seen. I just watched on YouTube a little and I can’t tell.

Maradona was amazing, absolutely fantastic peak (I'd say top 5 ever, at least, for soccer history), but a somewhat short/disappointing career due to drug use/off court stuff... still, search for his highlights in the 1986 world cup, he basically willed Argentina to a title, one of the greatest carry jobs ever... and that's coming from a brazilian (you may already know the Brazil x Argentina soccer rivalry...).

PS: I started following soccer back in 1984 or so, 1986 was the first world cup I remember watching... I saw it all when it happened, live and in color as they say here in Brazil.

[wegotthabeet]

I think stuff like Champions league has far more roll of dice luck involved, for best team, I think domestic is easier to win, CL is far harder to win, but for more underdog team, CL title would be more likely to win, I assume, because you can luck out more, its not single elimination, its too leg play offs, but on good run, you could just roll on, where domestic league is a long marathon and would be very hard for non favorite to win. Thats why Lester winning Premier was so unlikely, if they won any cup, it wouldn't have been much of a story.

By this logic wouldn’t it be more difficult for an nba team to have the best regular season record than win the championship?

Well, my point, is depending on team. What would be harder for team USA to do, finish first in 82 game season vs other FIBA teams, or win Olympic tourney? For them, finishing first reg season would be easy, guarantee they do that, but win Olympics is not as easy, where one game and you out.
But then take Serbia, would it be easier for them to win 82 game reg season vs USA and other teams, or win Olympics? hard either way, but they would take their chances winning Olympics.

Comparing NBA regular season as is is not really fair, because having best regular season record in the NBA, doesn't win anything. If Play offs didn't exist, and it was like Football, where just team with best record at the end is the champion, Regular season would spike in difficulty.

Thats why I think Play off model is a bit broken. I like play offs, but in Football, first game of the season, is just as important as the last, I watched Early Septemter games already and I am on the edge of my seat, you just cant drop points! Where in Basketball for example, who cares if you lose November game, it doesn't mean anything almost, unless it comes down to like one game whenever you make play offs or not, it kinda matters, but overall, we all watch NBA regular season, but why tho, it is so unimportant? Thats why some Euros like Teletovic said he hated playing in the NBA, because it was so boring, he said you just grind 80 games that dont mean anything.

Yeah the regular should mean a lot more. Start by awarding a team a trophy at the end of it. Then people can debate which is more difficult to win. They have this in hockey but the playoffs still matter more obviously.

[GSWFan1994]

0 trolling, I deadass just want to know the answer to the question I asked and if people think Ronaldo better than him because that’s the best player I seen. I just watched on YouTube a little and I can’t tell.

So you know who Diego Maradona is, you just do not know how good he was. I don't either, it was before my time, I started watching the sport even just casually basically just in 2004, with Greece winning Euros, and I way below casual Football fan myself, I dont know crap. I dont know if hes better than Ronaldo, its hard to compare intergenerationally, tho I imagine most people will say that Maradona is better. He is one of those rare people who transcended the sport and become more popular than sport itself, and considering Football is most popular thing in the world, it says a lot. Maradona is god figure basically.

I think in Basketball, Michael Jordan is the only player who is like that, bigger than sport itself, most people do not watch Basketball but have heard of Jordan and could maybe even recognize him. In Football, People who were like that, were basically Maradona, and maybe Messi and Ronaldo, maybe Pele? Maybe I am wrong, but I think its like that. My mom knows Maradona, and she in her entire life probably knew under 5 non domestic sports athletes. I know she knows Maradona and Mike Tyson, thats how I know these guys are freaking popular

Peak for peak, I'd say Ronaldinho Gaúcho as well. Obviously not a great overall career as the other names you mentioned.

Ronaldinho in 2005/2006 while in Barcelona was something else, too bad it only lasted a couple of years, then he was off to partying and "that" life...

[UcanUwill]

0 trolling, I deadass just want to know the answer to the question I asked and if people think Ronaldo better than him because that’s the best player I seen. I just watched on YouTube a little and I can’t tell.

So you know who Diego Maradona is, you just do not know how good he was. I don't either, it was before my time, I started watching the sport even just casually basically just in 2004, with Greece winning Euros, and I way below casual Football fan myself, I dont know crap. I dont know if hes better than Ronaldo, its hard to compare intergenerationally, tho I imagine most people will say that Maradona is better. He is one of those rare people who transcended the sport and become more popular than sport itself, and considering Football is most popular thing in the world, it says a lot. Maradona is god figure basically.

I think in Basketball, Michael Jordan is the only player who is like that, bigger than sport itself, most people do not watch Basketball but have heard of Jordan and could maybe even recognize him. In Football, People who were like that, were basically Maradona, and maybe Messi and Ronaldo, maybe Pele? Maybe I am wrong, but I think its like that. My mom knows Maradona, and she in her entire life probably knew under 5 non domestic sports athletes. I know she knows Maradona and Mike Tyson, thats how I know these guys are freaking popular

Peak for peak, I'd say Ronaldinho Gaúcho as well. Obviously not a great overall career as the other names you mentioned.

Ronaldinho in 2005/2006 while in Barcelona was something else, too bad it only lasted a couple of years, then he was off to partying and "that" life...

Ronaldinho was easily the most entertaining player to watch, the most delightful, I do not think it would be unpopular take, but as I said, I am Football dummy, I am not expert, so I couldn't really tell how much his flash actually translated to greatness. I mean, he was obviously very good, but was he absolute all timer, I don't know, but I do not know these things, I go by consensus, not my personal opinion.
I believe he was in jail, right? And he played street football in jail against other guys, imagine being inmate in that jail and playing against Ronaldinho, its crazy.

[GSWFan1994]

Ronaldinho was easily the most entertaining player to watch, the most delightful, I do not think it would be unpopular take, but as I said, I am Football dummy, I am not expert, so I couldn't really tell how much his flash actually translated to greatness I mean, he was obviously very good, but was he absolute all timer, I don't know, but I do not know these things, I go by consensus, not my personal opinion.
I believe he was in jail, right? And he played street football in jail against other guys, imagine being inmate in that jail and playing against Ronaldinho, its crazy.

I am not an expert either, I used to follow soccer religiously until 1999, 2000 or so, then I got fed up of the hooligan-type stuff ("torcidas organizadas" here in Brazil) and the fanatics and that put me off big time from the sport, but I still follow it a bit, specially during world cup time.

That being said, I'd say Ronaldinho peak was at least top 10 ever for the sport, probably a bit higher. He was a magician with the ball, one of his nicknames here is "O Bruxo" (The Wizard) due to his skill. Another guy worth mentioning is Cruijff (spl?), I didn't see him live but A LOT of people older than me talked so much about him... and coincidentally enough, just yesterday I saw a Zico (former Flamengo and brazilian national team star, played in the 1982 and 1986 world cup) interview where he said that Cruijff was the only player he was shy of talking to when he met him at an aiport and wanted to ask for a picture, he idolized the guy that much.

Yes, Ronaldinho was in jail for a short time, he tried to enter Paraguay (which has frontiers to south part of Brazil) with a fake passport. Think about it, you're one of the most famous people in the world, you could basically enter any country you wish without problems, yet you use a fake passport,

[The4thHorseman]

I don't know how strong Napoli and his competitors in Serie A were at a time, so maybe I am wrong, but it feels like winning with Napoli is definitely more impressive. WHich titles were those, Serie A, I assume we arent talking cups..? I am not into sport that much, so I am ignorant.

I am reading Wiki right now, they acquired him for 12 Million €, which was huge money at a time, but man, compare to todays transfers, wow, 12 million...



So now you just a forum troll all of sudden?

It took me a long ass time to realize yall weren’t talking about the pop star Madonna.

Is this like if bron went back to back in 15 and 16?

So you and Durden Tyler telling us you don't know, a probably top 3 most famous athlete of all time Dudes, its passive agressive trolling, if you do not care for the comparison, do not comment, it is not hard. This forum is the only reason why I know who Ohtani is, I would never know who that is, but I learned it from here and I am happy, I know more, I don't go to Ohtani thread and troll how hes irrelevant to my eyes because he plays a weird sport to me.

I really don't know who he is either, just another soccer player to me. Definitely not looked at as a top 3 athlete all time here in the States.

[UcanUwill]

I really don't know who he is either, just another soccer player to me. Definitely not looked at as a top 3 athlete all time here in the States.

Well, there are hundreds of nations in the world, and in every one, the list who is most famous will warry, and be dominated by domestic athletes. That's why we look at these things from global perspective...
Football is also completely unpopular in my country, but I try to be somewhat knowledgeable about most famous athletes who ever lived, its really hard not to learn these things unless you really try to have your head up your a**. Not sure why Americans alone are like that, like its not popular here, so I just proudly never learned who that was. Its Maradona, easily one of the most famous people of 20th century, but ok.

[ArksNetsSince99]

the 1989/90 Napoli squad wasn't too shabby, Careca, Ciro Ferrara, Gianfranco Zola, Alemão, de Napoli

looks like a pretty decent squad to me

Yep, "decent" is underselling it, to be fair.

Careca was the starting striker in the brazilian national team back then. Alemão was a starter too.

As far as I remember, Napoli had 2 or 3 starters for the italian national team as well.

Napoli was not a bad team, if my memory serves me well.

Wasn't Canniggia (spl?) playing for Napoli then too?

I don’t remember against who it was but it was World Cup semifinal and all knew Maradona will be doubled all game and he served Cannigia with phenomenal passes and Cannigia scored one or two goals

They were my heroes and I’m not even Argentinian

[ArksNetsSince99]

MJ winning 6 titles with Bulls or Maradona winning with Napoli?

I dont know how many people here know of MAradona or the magnitude of his decision to join Napoli but....He basically joined a team who'd never won anything. He joined them during a time where Serie A were filled with star studded teams in Milan,Juve and Inter.

It's like i dont know....MJ joining the a subpar team and carrying them to two chips against great teams.

Maradona is revered in Naples. He's basically god over there with Churches dedicated to him. When he died it took less than a week to change the stadium in Napoli in his name.

I guess you could see where i basically stand. I think those two titles he won with Napoli is bigger than any titles out there.

MJ was GOAT

Maradona was God of GOATS

[UcanUwill]

the 1989/90 Napoli squad wasn't too shabby, Careca, Ciro Ferrara, Gianfranco Zola, Alemão, de Napoli

looks like a pretty decent squad to me

Yep, "decent" is underselling it, to be fair.

Careca was the starting striker in the brazilian national team back then. Alemão was a starter too.

As far as I remember, Napoli had 2 or 3 starters for the italian national team as well.

Napoli was not a bad team, if my memory serves me well.

Wasn't Canniggia (spl?) playing for Napoli then too?

I don’t remember against who it was but it was World Cup semifinal and all knew Maradona will be doubled all game and he served Cannigia with phenomenal passes and Cannigia scored one or two goals

They were my heroes and I’m not even Argentinian

Is it actually possible to win in that sport with bad or middling team? Even if you GOAT, I imagine there is only so much you can do in Football. I said this before, but just relatively recently discovered that Football fans made those arguments, NBA fans make, like, Oh, Messi never won WC, he is not that good (before he did win). But in this sport, like what Messi can really do if defensive line sucks and concedes goals? Of course Napoli must have been great team, I just cant imagine how you can win with only one seriously great guy, especially if your competition are teams with several great guys.

I like team sports and I like Basketball for that, but I also like Basketball, because it is one team sport where Individual can be so impactful. So, in Basketball, those arguments kinda make sense, I still overall hate rings and all that stuff arguement, because it is team sport, but yeah, in Basketball, GOAT can carry a middly team to greatness. It is just not the same with Football or most other sports.

[bkkrh]

the 1989/90 Napoli squad wasn't too shabby, Careca, Ciro Ferrara, Gianfranco Zola, Alemão, de Napoli

looks like a pretty decent squad to me

Yep, it was
Being a Napoli fan I felt compelled to comment in this thread.
The first scudetto was more impressive even though the 2nd one came against world beaters like Sacchi's Milan at their best and german-trio Inter, so it has its unique aura

Yes, by 89/90 the team had improved a lot compared to when he joined, which makes sense since they placed at least 3rd every season from 85/86, which in itself is also super impressive, considering you had every season about 9 other strong teams playing in the league.

Just to point out, Zola had just joined Napoli from a 3rd division team in 89/90 and didn't get much playing time that year.

[ArksNetsSince99]

So you and Durden Tyler telling us you don't know, a probably top 3 most famous athlete of all time? Dudes, its passive agressive trolling, if you do not care for the comparison, do not comment, it is not hard. This forum is the only reason why I know who Ohtani is, I would never know who that is, but I learned it from here and I am happy, I know more, I don't go to Ohtani thread and troll how hes irrelevant to my eyes because he plays a weird sport to me.

0 trolling, I deadass just want to know the answer to the question I asked and if people think Ronaldo better than him because that’s the best player I seen. I just watched on YouTube a little and I can’t tell.

Maradona was amazing, absolutely fantastic peak (I'd say top 5 ever, at least, for soccer history), but a somewhat short/disappointing career due to drug use/off court stuff... still, search for his highlights in the 1986 world cup, he basically willed Argentina to a title, one of the greatest carry jobs ever... and that's coming from a brazilian (you may already know the Brazil x Argentina soccer rivalry...).

PS: I started following soccer back in 1984 or so, 1986 was the first world cup I remember watching... I saw it all when it happened, live and in color as they say here in Brazil.

Bro if Maradona is in your top 5 who’s the 4 guys ahead of him for you ? I’m just curious

I gotta say Maradona is my clear no 1 , maybe because I was a kid watching him play and there was no one even close to him , later after the games when we played soccer as a little boys we all wanted to be Maradonas or Cannigias

[TrentTuckerRule]

the 1989/90 Napoli squad wasn't too shabby, Careca, Ciro Ferrara, Gianfranco Zola, Alemão, de Napoli

looks like a pretty decent squad to me

Yep, "decent" is underselling it, to be fair.

Exaggeration vs understatement - I always tend to go for the latter.

[durden_tyler]

I don't know how strong Napoli and his competitors in Serie A were at a time, so maybe I am wrong, but it feels like winning with Napoli is definitely more impressive. WHich titles were those, Serie A, I assume we arent talking cups..? I am not into sport that much, so I am ignorant.

I am reading Wiki right now, they acquired him for 12 Million €, which was huge money at a time, but man, compare to todays transfers, wow, 12 million...

What sport did Maradona play?

So now you just a forum troll all of sudden?

LOL. Just against soccer, one of, if not the, most boring sport there is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ArksNetsSince99]

I don't know how strong Napoli and his competitors in Serie A were at a time, so maybe I am wrong, but it feels like winning with Napoli is definitely more impressive. WHich titles were those, Serie A, I assume we arent talking cups..? I am not into sport that much, so I am ignorant.

I am reading Wiki right now, they acquired him for 12 Million €, which was huge money at a time, but man, compare to todays transfers, wow, 12 million...

What sport did Maradona play?

So now you just a forum troll all of sudden?

LOL. Just against soccer, one of, if not the, most boring sport there is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You’re just a troll , bad troll to say the least

[ArksNetsSince99]

Ronaldinho was easily the most entertaining player to watch, the most delightful, I do not think it would be unpopular take, but as I said, I am Football dummy, I am not expert, so I couldn't really tell how much his flash actually translated to greatness I mean, he was obviously very good, but was he absolute all timer, I don't know, but I do not know these things, I go by consensus, not my personal opinion.
I believe he was in jail, right? And he played street football in jail against other guys, imagine being inmate in that jail and playing against Ronaldinho, its crazy.

I am not an expert either, I used to follow soccer religiously until 1999, 2000 or so, then I got fed up of the hooligan-type stuff ("torcidas organizadas" here in Brazil) and the fanatics and that put me off big time from the sport, but I still follow it a bit, specially during world cup time.

That being said, I'd say Ronaldinho peak was at least top 10 ever for the sport, probably a bit higher. He was a magician with the ball, one of his nicknames here is "O Bruxo" (The Wizard) due to his skill. Another guy worth mentioning is Cruijff (spl?), I didn't see him live but A LOT of people older than me talked so much about him... and coincidentally enough, just yesterday I saw a Zico (former Flamengo and brazilian national team star, played in the 1982 and 1986 world cup) interview where he said that Cruijff was the only player he was shy of talking to when he met him at an aiport and wanted to ask for a picture, he idolized the guy that much.

Yes, Ronaldinho was in jail for a short time, he tried to enter Paraguay (which has frontiers to south part of Brazil) with a fake passport. Think about it, you're one of the most famous people in the world, you could basically enter any country you wish without problems, yet you use a fake passport,

Ronaldinho was amazing , but his prime was soooo short , if he played longer he could have valid argument being GOAT over Maradona , I agree

[Sedale Threatt]

0 trolling, I deadass just want to know the answer to the question I asked and if people think Ronaldo better than him because that’s the best player I seen. I just watched on YouTube a little and I can’t tell.

Maradona was amazing, absolutely fantastic peak (I'd say top 5 ever, at least, for soccer history), but a somewhat short/disappointing career due to drug use/off court stuff... still, search for his highlights in the 1986 world cup, he basically willed Argentina to a title, one of the greatest carry jobs ever... and that's coming from a brazilian (you may already know the Brazil x Argentina soccer rivalry...).

PS: I started following soccer back in 1984 or so, 1986 was the first world cup I remember watching... I saw it all when it happened, live and in color as they say here in Brazil.

Bro if Maradona is in your top 5 who’s the 4 guys ahead of him for you ? I’m just curious

I gotta say Maradona is my clear no 1 , maybe because I was a kid watching him play and there was no one even close to him , later after the games when we played soccer as a little boys we all wanted to be Maradonas or Cannigias

Similar to Wilt Chamberlain, so much of Maradona's appeal is romantic, a huge part of which is based on one tournament. And a huge part of that is based on a game Argentina might not have even won without one of the biggest officiating screwups in the history of sports. The fact he also scored one of the greatest goals of all time in the same match pretty much sums him up. Undeniable, generational genius marred by some pretty massive flaws, not least of which was his cocaine addiction.

It's hard to compare across eras, especially given how much more defensive Serie A was back then. But it's just impossible to put a player who barely cracked 100 career goals in top-flight European league play over the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, who put up video game numbers year after year after year against the best of the best. If you include national teams they both have close to 1,000 goal involvements apiece, which is just insane and cannot be ignored. I'd take either of them over him in a heartbeat, before you even get into anybody else.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Maradona was amazing, absolutely fantastic peak (I'd say top 5 ever, at least, for soccer history), but a somewhat short/disappointing career due to drug use/off court stuff... still, search for his highlights in the 1986 world cup, he basically willed Argentina to a title, one of the greatest carry jobs ever... and that's coming from a brazilian (you may already know the Brazil x Argentina soccer rivalry...).

PS: I started following soccer back in 1984 or so, 1986 was the first world cup I remember watching... I saw it all when it happened, live and in color as they say here in Brazil.

Bro if Maradona is in your top 5 who’s the 4 guys ahead of him for you ? I’m just curious

I gotta say Maradona is my clear no 1 , maybe because I was a kid watching him play and there was no one even close to him , later after the games when we played soccer as a little boys we all wanted to be Maradonas or Cannigias

Similar to Wilt Chamberlain, so much of Maradona's appeal is romantic, a huge part of which is based on one tournament. And a huge part of that is based on a game Argentina might not have even won without one of the biggest officiating screwups in the history of sports. The fact he also scored one of the greatest goals of all time in the same match pretty much sums him up. Undeniable, generational genius marred by some pretty massive flaws, not least of which was his cocaine addiction.

It's hard to compare across eras, especially given how much more defensive Serie A was back then. But it's just impossible to put a player who barely cracked 100 career goals in top-flight European leagues over the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, who put up video game numbers year after year after year against the best of the best. If you include national teams they both have close to 1,000 goal involvements apiece, which is just insane and cannot be ignored. I'd take either of them over him in a heartbeat, before you even get into anybody else.

It wasn’t an officiating screw up

It was HAND OF GOD

[Sedale Threatt]

Bro if Maradona is in your top 5 who’s the 4 guys ahead of him for you ? I’m just curious

I gotta say Maradona is my clear no 1 , maybe because I was a kid watching him play and there was no one even close to him , later after the games when we played soccer as a little boys we all wanted to be Maradonas or Cannigias

Similar to Wilt Chamberlain, so much of Maradona's appeal is romantic, a huge part of which is based on one tournament. And a huge part of that is based on a game Argentina might not have even won without one of the biggest officiating screwups in the history of sports. The fact he also scored one of the greatest goals of all time in the same match pretty much sums him up. Undeniable, generational genius marred by some pretty massive flaws, not least of which was his cocaine addiction.

It's hard to compare across eras, especially given how much more defensive Serie A was back then. But it's just impossible to put a player who barely cracked 100 career goals in top-flight European leagues over the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, who put up video game numbers year after year after year against the best of the best. If you include national teams they both have close to 1,000 goal involvements apiece, which is just insane and cannot be ignored. I'd take either of them over him in a heartbeat, before you even get into anybody else.

It wasn’t an officiating screw up

It was HAND OF GOD

To quote Bishop Pickering from Caddyshack, there is no god.