(DEN) Michael Porter on Christian Braun vs KCP

[Ryoga Hibiki]

He's a solid player. The problem now is the garbage dumpster of a bench....

I now suspect the issue is Malone, it can't be that for 10 yeats the Nuggets bench has always been rubbish. In the meantime Hartenstein signed for 30m/y and now even Jay Huff is performing in Memphis.
Now I am questioning how he prepares the team and his rotations

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Braun was an obvious replacement of Brown.

Don't know why he didn't get the minute bump last season, probably had something to do with Reggie Jackson minutes.

one thing that is underrated is how much is a confidence boos to play big minutes with Jokic.
KCP had the luxury of being always matched to him

[HotRocks34]

Malone is a big part of the bench issue over time IMO. So many good pieces were wasted.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Braun looks like a good, solid player and I think there was plenty of reason to project that. The problem for DEN in general is that the pieces out the door are, collectively, better than the pieces in since that championship and that's on top of the issue of Murray repeating that playoff run which is far above the player he's ever been in his career even when healthy. They're bleeding on the margins of the rotation and their 2nd best player probably isn't capable of playing at that level again. Braun being as good or even a bit better than KCP isn't covering for that.

Murray being far from his former self is like 20x more important than the perceived loss at the margins.
I wrote "perceived" because I am not so sure it's true, the bench was awful even back then.

[magee]

I mentioned the Nuggets' player development issues in the Surprise/Disappointment thread. Someone had a good point about how it's hard to develop young guys when you're trying to win. I'll have to go find it and edit this post.

[AleksandarN]

People keep mentioning how Braun is playing like the third best player (behind Jokic and AG) which I think is true and that Murray needs to step up, which is also true but I also have higher expectations for MPJ. Dr
He should be a top 3 player on this team almost every other night.

I think and you call me a homer but at the end of year Denver will be the one challenging the Celtics for championship if Murray can stay healthy and Julien and Peyton can improve which I think they can.

[AleksandarN]

He's a solid player. The problem now is the garbage dumpster of a bench....

I now suspect the issue is Malone, it can't be that for 10 yeats the Nuggets bench has always been rubbish. In the meantime Hartenstein signed for 30m/y and now even Jay Huff is performing in Memphis.
Now I am questioning how he prepares the team and his rotations

He also didn’t even give Hartenstien a chance either when he was on the Nuggets. How many games he played for nuggets

[Woodsanity]

He's a solid player. The problem now is the garbage dumpster of a bench....

I now suspect the issue is Malone, it can't be that for 10 yeats the Nuggets bench has always been rubbish. In the meantime Hartenstein signed for 30m/y and now even Jay Huff is performing in Memphis.
Now I am questioning how he prepares the team and his rotations

He is a decent coach at best. A lot of his flaws got hidden by Jokic.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I mentioned the Nuggets' player development issues in the Surprise/Disappointment thread. Someone had a good point about how it's hard to develop young guys when you're trying to win. I'll have to go find it and edit this post.

I think this is sort of an excuse. Once someone is out of the rotation he NEVER plays, while coaches like Deignault test their guys.
Important, he tests them in situations where they can show their strenghts and gain confidence, while the Nuggets bench guys end up in truly wretched lineups.

[MarcusBrody]

He's a solid player. The problem now is the garbage dumpster of a bench....

Exactly. I argued in a number of threads that Braun had the potential to be a really good KCP replacement (if not quite like for like), but the problem is that if you move Braun into KCP's role, you need someone to fill Braun's on an already shallow bench. Strawther has had moments, but he isn't to Braun's level yet. Watson looks worse on offense than ever after looking promising defensively last year.

[BelgradeNugget]

He's a solid player. The problem now is the garbage dumpster of a bench....

I now suspect the issue is Malone, it can't be that for 10 yeats the Nuggets bench has always been rubbish. In the meantime Hartenstein signed for 30m/y and now even Jay Huff is performing in Memphis.
Now I am questioning how he prepares the team and his rotations

He also didn’t even give Hartenstien a chance either when he was on the Nuggets. How many games he played for nuggets

The line of PF/C's Malone didn't know how to use is much longer. The only backup C that was good for Nuggets was Plumlee. And he was starting C for Brooklyn, then Portland, backup C for Nuggets, and then starter again for Charlotte. If you have a starter on your bench he should be able to contribute, whoever is a coach.
Boogie was good for 31 games he played in 21-22.

This is a list of PF/C who were worst for Malone then they were for previous/next teams:

-JaMychal Green
-Isaiah Hartenstein
-JaVale McGee
-Thomas Bryant
-Jeff Green
-Dario Saric

-DeAndre Jordan was bad in the last few years and stayed bad
-Zeke Nnaji terribly regressed from his rookie/sophmore season

-Jay Huff never got a chance although Nuggets didn't have a playable center last season

Maybe if we could create Jokic's clone for the bench everything would be OK.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

He's a solid player. The problem now is the garbage dumpster of a bench....

I now suspect the issue is Malone, it can't be that for 10 yeats the Nuggets bench has always been rubbish. In the meantime Hartenstein signed for 30m/y and now even Jay Huff is performing in Memphis.
Now I am questioning how he prepares the team and his rotations

He is a decent coach at best. A lot of his flaws got hidden by Jokic.

he deserves credit for givibg the keys of the team to a 2nd round soph from Serbia. And he definitely has control of the locker room.
But I am not impressed by his player development, definitely

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Maybe if we could create Jokic's clone for the bench everything would be OK.

that's what Saric was supposed to be, a homeless men version of Nikola.
What I like that he's doing this year is playing Strawther and Porter with the bench, but at this stage Russ is not working. He's decent when playing with Jokic because he's always looking for him and he can connect as Jokic can catch his bullets from 1m. But with the other guys the bench is going no where, he should use Saric the same way and have Strawther and Porter working off ball

[BelgradeNugget]

The state of Nuggets team is pretty good rn.

1. Jokic is playing out of his mind
2. AG brilliant
3. Christian Braun great
4. MPJ, after bad first two games is sniper again
5. Julian Strawther much better than expected, he needs to clear some defensive mistakes (fouls too much), on O great so far

6. Russ has been Nuggets best perimeter defender so far , on O He doesn't need to be good on O, just on the level he was for last few years
7. Murray has been bad so far in 5 games, he will OK
8. Watson was injured all preseason, he needs some more time to get to shape, he will be OK

9. Saric - it is all on Malone
10. Nanji - it is all on Malone

[BelgradeNugget]

I now suspect the issue is Malone, it can't be that for 10 yeats the Nuggets bench has always been rubbish. In the meantime Hartenstein signed for 30m/y and now even Jay Huff is performing in Memphis.
Now I am questioning how he prepares the team and his rotations

He is a decent coach at best. A lot of his flaws got hidden by Jokic.

he deserves credit for givibg the keys of the team to a 2nd round soph from Serbia. And he definitely has control of the locker room.
But I am not impressed by his player development, definitely

I don't think he has control any more. I think he lost it at the end of last rs. One thing with this Nuggets team was they never gave up. No meather what they were comming back and playing 48 minutes. Something changed in the last few games of rs last year. They looked lifeless against Lakers and 3 of 4 losses against Minny were not losses they were embarassment. They started the same way in the first 2 games this year.

[God Squad]

KCP looks awful so far in Orlando.

[Scalabrine]

I don't think it should be a Braun vs KCP thing, it should be a Braun vs. Braun AND KCP thing.

This wasn't a Bruce Brown situation, where the Nuggets legally couldn't pay him the money he signed for. Even if they couldn't afford it in the long run, they should have signed him and then flipped him in December for some more rotation players. No one is arguing that Braun isn't a good player. People are arguing that the Nuggets only have 5-6 NBA level rotation players.

They could have done KCP for Gary Harris and Bitadze or KCP for Micic and Grant Williams, or KCP for Andrew Wiggins, or KCP for PJ Tucker and Amir Coffey or KCP and Nnaji for CJ McCollum. There are a ton of options out there that are better than just having nothing.

This is the BEST chance the Nuggets have at winning. It's right now! Why they didn't want to go over the tax and not put their best foot forward is something thats honestly unforgivable. If I were Jokic, Id honestly be pretty pissed off.

[JM00n69]

Den bench has been bare with 1 or 2 players you could trust with minutes in the playoffs for years. Malone has been making the point to the GM/media about it for years.

Russ and DJ are the only ones on the current roster you'd trust to not get lost in the moment when its the playoffs and a close game on this current roster and thats only because they've got the years/experience. Both are nearly retired and shouldn't even be in the rotation for a contending team.

PWat has been bad so far, not sure if he's injured? JS on and off but to have him lead the scoring for 20+mins in the POs each game is putting a lot of faith in his mental confidence.

[JM00n69]

Also CB is guaranteed til end of 25/26 at about $4M per year. Then a RFA with first year max being about $15M from 26/27. So DEN can match yrs/money and looks like a no brainer with those nrs unless he turns into a donut

[BelgradeNugget]

I don't think it should be a Braun vs KCP thing, it should be a Braun vs. Braun AND KCP thing.

You brought some good points here. Here is how I look at it as a fan.

Championship duo was KCP/Brown. KCP as starting 3nD, can't create, plays good of off Jokic/starters, Brown as combo guard form the bench who can create some for himself and the others, and plays good D.

Last year's duo was KCP/Braun. Here is a problem because Braun is simmilar player to KCP - can't create, plays good of off Jokic/starters.

This years duo is Braun/Strawther. Braun is already as good as KCP with starters and while Strawther is worst on D from the group he is the best on O as far as creating shots from himself and others and scoring. So they hoped Braun/Strawther duo after this season, before playoffs, could be as good as KCP/Brown and better than KCP/Braun. When I say better it is not in vacuum but in their roles.

This wasn't a Bruce Brown situation, where the Nuggets legally couldn't pay him the money he signed for. Even if they couldn't afford it in the long run, they should have signed him and then flipped him in December for some more rotation players. No one is arguing that Braun isn't a good player. People are arguing that the Nuggets only have 5-6 NBA level rotation players.

They could have done KCP for Gary Harris and Bitadze.

I would have killed for Gary Harris and Bitadze, but I think the reason they didn't resign KCP was exectly the reason why they didn't do any sign and trade options. The reason they didn't resigned him for the money he got from Orlando was to avoid 2nd apron. If they decided to go into 2nd apron they would have kept him. If not there is no logic in going into 2nd apron with other players as good or worst then him.

And if I'm not mistaken teams in 2nd apron can't do sign and trade

I think that was their line of thinking.