Are the Timberwolves a top 6 team in the West?

[Bobbymcgee]

It could be worse.

[nomansland]

I'm not buying that the Lakers are better, and the Suns could easily go into a tailspin.

It's early, they still have a lot of talent and some things to figure out, so I wouldn't write them off yet.

[Satch]

Conley has a bad wrist and it will get better, divo is way under career averages for shooting and that will get better and Naz has not been playing well and he will get out of his slump. thats 3 important pieces that cant play worse. I will say though I didnt care for trade

[cgf]

How can any one with half a brain rate the Lakers ahead of the Wolves ?

Also the Knicks are overrated right now.

I cannot put them in the same tier as the Celtics, Cavs or Magic in the East, and in fact the rising Bucks could very well surpass them around or after Christmas in the standings.

We were ahead of Orlando before the dud we laid on saturday...and that's without a training camp to gel after the trade or either of our top 2 centers yet to play a game.

[doogie_hauser]

How can any one with half a brain rate the Lakers ahead of the Wolves ?

Also the Knicks are overrated right now.

I cannot put them in the same tier as the Celtics, Cavs or Magic in the East, and in fact the rising Bucks could very well surpass them around or after Christmas in the standings.

We were ahead of Orlando before the dud we laid on saturday...and that's without a training camp to gel after the trade or either of our top 2 centers yet to play a game.

A core 3 of Paolo, Wagner and Suggs worries me more as a Celtic than Brunson, KAT (and I would say OG is your part of your top 3)

Plus the Magic have a younger and more durable bench.

Just my impression at this stage of the season, not even a quarter of the season played yet.

[cgf]

How can any one with half a brain rate the Lakers ahead of the Wolves ?

Also the Knicks are overrated right now.

I cannot put them in the same tier as the Celtics, Cavs or Magic in the East, and in fact the rising Bucks could very well surpass them around or after Christmas in the standings.

We were ahead of Orlando before the dud we laid on saturday...and that's without a training camp to gel after the trade or either of our top 2 centers yet to play a game.

A core 3 of Paolo, Wagner and Suggs worries me more as a Celtic than Brunson, KAT (and I would say OG is your part of your top 3)

Plus the Magic have a younger and more durable bench.

Just my impression at this stage of the season, not even a quarter of the season played yet.

If we don't sort our defense out, I can't blame you...but I also don't think we've seen much of what this team is capable of since we've had to run with Towns at Center and our guys are still gelling. With Robinson & Achiuwa back in action, plus improved chemistry, I'm hopeful that we'll look very different...on both ends of the court.

Rim protection and lack of chemistry on the perimeter is killing our defense. While our offense is so jumpshot dependant in large part because we no longer dominate the offensive glass like we used to, and because we haven't yet started using Karl's passing abilities the way we did Hartenstein's...which should come with chemistry.

Orlando definitley has better depth than us and their D is already a monster, but I think we can close the defensive gap a lot more than they can close the offensive gap by this postseason.

And if we gel the way I think/hope we will, we should be a brutal matchup for cleveland at full strength...with a Robinson-Towns frontcout being one of the few that can just boss JAfro & Mobley around on both ends of the court; and OG / Bridges / McBride / Hart being about as good a wing rotation as you could ask for to throw at Garland & Mitchell.

[brackdan70]

2nd apron is brutal, something had to be done.
Wolves will go as far as Edwards takes then and while Randle has been fine it's really drop in McDaniels and Conly play that is bringing them down. Conley looks like father time finnaly caught up to him.

At the end of the day I still have them on top 6

It was more the repeater tax than the Apron I thought.

[brackdan70]

They have had a rough stretch. Small sample size to toss them out of the top 6. I think they will finish the year 6th assuming health and no further trades.

[bledredwine]

I'm disappointed in Edwards' lack of improvement.

I really thought that he'd make a leap this year, but he looks similar to last year.

[Jadoogar]

i think warriors and lakers are playing a bit above their talent level right now and minnesota is still trying to integrate randle. Talent wise, Minnesota should be in the top 6. I think they'll figure it out and get out of the play in.

[cupcakesnake]

IMO they're not top 6. The Thunder, Nuggets, Mavs, Warriors, Suns, and Lakers are all better.

I agree the Wolves aren't top 6, but I disagree with the teams you're listing. If you look at strength of schedule and net rating, the Lakers and Suns are even worse than the Wolves (The Suns will get KD back though and will be dangerous).

The Thunder, Nuggets, Mavs, Warriors for sure are the best mix of playing well right now, and having the track record to believe they can continue to play well. After that it's the Rockets, Grizzlies, and Clippers who are playing the best. Rockets are a pretty serious up and comer with incredible defense. The Grizzlies are back, and despite health struggles already, they have top 6 defense and top 8 offense. The Clippers just won 5 in a row, have played elite defense, and might get (briefly) Kawhi Leonard back at some point. They've also had one of the hardest schedules so far (if you trust strength of schedule)

The Lakers literally have a negative net rating, and are an older version of a play-in team from last year. They look good in the standings right now, but they've had a very easy schedule and have had the best players healthy. They recently padded their win total with wins over injured Phili, injured Toronto, injured Memphis and Utah during a 5-game win streak (1 quality win over the Spurs). This team simply can't balance offense and defense. Right now they're a bottom 4 defensive team, which means you simply can't beat good teams very often. You might score on good teams, but they'll score on you more. The Lakers have the means to be a better defense (if Vando comes back healthy?), but they can't sustain their good offense if they starting playing multiple non-shooters around AD. Speaking of AD, he can be an MVP-level offensive centerpiece, or a DPOY-level defensive anchor, but he can't do both at the same time. The Lakers are giving up a 118 Drtg with AD on the floor (which means they're slightly worse). Lebron (by the numbers) has also been a massive defensive negative as 40-year-old playing big minutes. They're the worst defense in the league with their two stars off the floor. They are solid on defense with AD plays without Lebron. Lebron is no longer excelling in non-AD minutes, (-3 net rating with Lebron on, AD off).

Back to the Wolves though, we have a serious problem where we can't play defense at all without Gobert on the floor, and we can't be elite defensively if Randle is on the floor. At the same time, we can't be elite offensively with Gobert on the floor, since neither Randle or Ant are very good at throwing lobs, so Gobert is just in the way of their drives. Randle doesn't even run back on defense, it's crazy. We start so many semi-transition defensive possessions playing 4-5 and then watch Randle waddle into the frame, only to get into a guarding position and then rest for a second. He's just as bad in the halfcourt, constantly standing up straight when the ball is away from him, making him always late to react or rotate. On the Gobert side, he needs so much help offensively to be useful. He's a good lob threat, and has ways to use his size, but he is getting creakier with age and has never had good hands. If you aren't going to pair him with good passers, he's a negative on offense. Our best interior passers last year were Conley, SloMo, and Towns. 2 of them are gone and one is old/injured.

Maybe the Wolves figure something out, get Julius to give the bare minimum effort on defense, or trade him. Mostly, this team has taken a step back to make their finances work well enough to build around Ant's prime... but we might have eliminated our current window to contend in the Gobert era of this team.

[Moose]

The Knicks defense has been bad.

The Twolves were right to pair Towns with a defensive big. Not sure if the Knicks will do that though.

Also, Bridges has not been good on either side of the ball. OG has been better at defending the top guards in teams vs Bridges who seemingly gets burned often now.

I would say the Bridges return is more of a concern than KAT.

But not sure the Knicks will make the lineup/rotation adjustments (more KAT at the 4, for example) to optimize their players.

As for the Twolves, I think they need to surround Randle with as many shooters as possible. I'm not sure if their current situation fits with him.

[Deivork]

If it doesnt work, should they try to retrade Randle?

[cgf]

I'm disappointed in Edwards' lack of improvement.

I really thought that he'd make a leap this year, but he looks similar to last year.

He’s still developing chemistry with new core guys. We may well see him take a leap this season yet.

[cgf]

The Knicks defense has been bad.

The Twolves were right to pair Towns with a defensive big. Not sure if the Knicks will do that though.

Also, Bridges has not been good on either side of the ball. OG has been better at defending the top guards in teams vs Bridges who seemingly gets burned often now.

I would say the Bridges return is more of a concern than KAT.

But not sure the Knicks will make the lineup/rotation adjustments (more KAT at the 4, for example) to optimize their players.

As for the Twolves, I think they need to surround Randle with as many shooters as possible. I'm not sure if their current situation fits with him.

Some of us said from the start that we expected Towns to start next to Robinson or Achiuwa, sooner or later, and I don’t think we’ve seen anything that changes that.

That’s why I’m still hoping we can use Dadiet + WSH FRP to upgrade Sims to Kessler by the deadline


As for Minny, I don’t see their roster as that different from ours last season except their shooters just aren’t hitting their shots enough yet and their passing/defense betrays that they didn’t get a training camp in after the trade.

Julius
Donte
Dynamic lead guard - Ant / Brunson
Non shooting rim protector - Rudy / Mitch
Long wing stopper - McDaniels / Anunoby
undersized bench energy wing - NAW / Hart
Young PG just breaking in - Dillingham / McBride
Elite bench big - Naz / iHart

A lot of the same ingredients are there, they just don’t have chemistry yet and Ant needs to learn to be more of a PG…though it’s not like Jalen created a ton more than Ant does.

[AbeVigodaLive]

"It's only 16 games."

True. But those 8 losses still count in being a top 6 team through 20% of the season. And who knows when (if?) things get corrected. A lack of effort on defense shouldn't be part of the "figuring it out process."

Chemistry and fit matter A LOT in the NBA. Both Randle and DiVincenzo seemingly liked New York. Minnesota is very different than NY both on and off the court. Some might dig that... some might not.

Was yesterday a mirage or a trend? Because the previous 10 days show a team that's in utter freefall. They lost several games to really bad teams and looked awful while doing it or winning other games against teams with star players out. What's the fix other than our assumptions that it will get better?

The team has looked decent to mediocre to bad through 16 games. Even in some of the wins, they looked rough for vast stretches. The team's identity as a tall and long defensive team is almost entirely gone. The twin-tower vibes with two starting centers have changed suddenly to a team with only one real center on its entire roster. And now it's a short team that simply cannot defend without Gobert on the court.

AND... the West is full of good teams.

The Timberwolves are a play-in team this season. And that's only if things start to improve sooner than later.

[dakomish23]

Let's see what happens by February

[Effigy]

If it doesnt work, should they try to retrade Randle?

Surely there isn't a SECOND team stupid enough to give up something good for him?

[Moose]

The Knicks defense has been bad.

The Twolves were right to pair Towns with a defensive big. Not sure if the Knicks will do that though.

Also, Bridges has not been good on either side of the ball. OG has been better at defending the top guards in teams vs Bridges who seemingly gets burned often now.

I would say the Bridges return is more of a concern than KAT.

But not sure the Knicks will make the lineup/rotation adjustments (more KAT at the 4, for example) to optimize their players.

As for the Twolves, I think they need to surround Randle with as many shooters as possible. I'm not sure if their current situation fits with him.

Some of us said from the start that we expected Towns to start next to Robinson or Achiuwa, sooner or later, and I don’t think we’ve seen anything that changes that.

That’s why I’m still hoping we can use Dadiet + WSH FRP to upgrade Sims to Kessler by the deadline


As for Minny, I don’t see their roster as that different from ours last season except their shooters just aren’t hitting their shots enough yet and their passing/defense betrays that they didn’t get a training camp in after the trade.

Julius
Donte
Dynamic lead guard - Ant / Brunson
Non shooting rim protector - Rudy / Mitch
Long wing stopper - McDaniels / Anunoby
undersized bench energy wing - NAW / Hart
Young PG just breaking in - Dillingham / McBride
Elite bench big - Naz / iHart

A lot of the same ingredients are there, they just don’t have chemistry yet and Ant needs to learn to be more of a PG…though it’s not like Jalen created a ton more than Ant does.

As a Knicks fan, I would like to see KAT to the 4 and either Hart or Bridges off the bench (currently Bridges).

[kodo]

The concerning thing is that Minny has the 2nd toughest remaining schedule.