Rings are completely meaningsless to evaluate an NBA Legend's legacy

[zimpy27]

Lebron, is that you ?

LeBron's 3 championships with 3 separate teams does a lot of heavy lifting. I doubt he wants people not to care about rings.

Obviously rings aren't everything otherwise Big Shot Bob would be a top 20 player

Big shot Rob is meaningless, because he is a role player. Nobody would put him above any ATG because he was a great role player in many championship teams.

Lebron is the player who has more to gain not counting rings, because people would count his cumulative stats, which are very good.

If the king was interested only in top 10 , he would want to count rings, but to be better he has not enough of them

Well LeBron has 4 championships. Yes it's not near Russell at 11. But 4 is still plenty to make any case for top 10 or 5 or GOAT for most. Those who care about rings above all typically choose Russell but I don't think that's even more than 5% of NBA fans.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Lebron, is that you ?

It's really a Jokic thread.

Nah, Jokic' legacy is great anyway, he doesn't have the right teammates to win more, so far...

That's why this is a Jokic thread, we all know he's great, but the ring(s) will define him against the other greats. This thread was made after the Nuggets lost to the Knicks.


He and Giannis look like they may be stuck with just 1.

[DAWill1128]

The thing about counting stats is they don't take into account a lot of things. I would say counting stats wise Russell Westbrook is the greatest stat guy of my lifetime, but nobody thinks he is the best player. Why do people not think Russell Westbrook is the greatest player ever? That's your answer why Championships matter.

[michaelm]

Not all rings hold the same weight. There's Kevin Durant's multiple rings. There's Dirk Nowitzki's ring. Which is the bigger number. 1 or 2?

Depends how you rate making a team into probably the best ever team while winning a ring with them.

Since LeBron’s legacy substantially rests on beating a team which had won the most regular season games ever making a team the best play-offs team ever ranks higher imo.

[michaelm]

Your obsession with Rich Paul and Nick Wright is concerning. Those dudes might want to get a restraining order at this point.

Think i need one for you Taj

With how often you call me that, I should probably have the mods change my name to it.

Without me, who is going to teach you about basketball and the NBA, son? You've come a long way so far.

Not that you have any obsessions yourself of course, including having a very strong opinion about the respective merits of 2 players, one of whom you fairly obviously didn’t watch play much if at all in his time.

And if rings are meaningless why did LeBron chase winning them so hard ?.

[tbhawksfan1]

I'm sure that Duncan loses not one minute of sleep worrying where you or I rank him all-time. Shaq on the other hand... That is also part of their legacy because only meaningless things are meaningless and winning championships is hilariously not meaningless

[Baz]

Not all rings hold the same weight. There's Kevin Durant's multiple rings. There's Dirk Nowitzki's ring. Which is the bigger number. 1 or 2?

Depends how you rate making a team into probably the best ever team while winning a ring with them.

Since LeBron’s legacy substantially rests on beating a team which had won the most regular season games ever making a team the best play-offs team ever ranks higher imo.

That was Steph's team. I've argued this a million times and I'll say it again, KD's time on the Warriors has ultimately diminished his legacy. Nobody respects what he did and there is no nostalgia for that team and the years that have passed have not changed that. If anything, it aged worse since Steph won a title without KD a couple of years later.

[Optms]

Few things;

Lebron already has a strong argument over Jordan for GOAT so his 4 rings isn't what's holding him back. Nice try though.

Dubs were always Currys team. KD taking the most shots had no relevance in bearing on ranking. He is in the same boat as Karl Malone for me. Actually behind him if I'm being honest.

If this is a Jokic thread, just give it a rest already lol

[sashaturiaf]

You're completely right. Winning isn't the point of sport. Cancel the medal count at the Olympics, it's all about accumulating advanced stats

It's amazing how many people on realGM want to discount winning when basketball is one of the team sports where an individual has the biggest influence on winning. Brady is celebrated as the GOAT for his rings, and look at what winning the world cup did for Messis perception. Yet we got supposed basketball fans downplaying NBA championships. Absolute madness, OP must be a salty Harden fan

[MrPainfulTruth]

LeBron's 3 championships with 3 separate teams does a lot of heavy lifting. I doubt he wants people not to care about rings.

Obviously rings aren't everything otherwise Big Shot Bob would be a top 20 player

Big shot Rob is meaningless, because he is a role player. Nobody would put him above any ATG because he was a great role player in many championship teams.

Lebron is the player who has more to gain not counting rings, because people would count his cumulative stats, which are very good.

If the king was interested only in top 10 , he would want to count rings, but to be better he has not enough of them

Well LeBron has 4 championships. Yes it's not near Russell at 11. But 4 is still plenty to make any case for top 10 or 5 or GOAT for most. Those who care about rings above all typically choose Russell but I don't think that's even more than 5% of NBA fans.

He's easily top 10, most likely top 5. He wants to be considered the GOAT though and with the team hopping and irregularities of his rings, he does not want to be evaluated by rings because he cant even get past Tim Duncan and Kobe let alone MJ.

But i agree, rings depend on so many factors outside of a players control that outside of meaningless generalizations that could be coming straight out of Mark Jacksons mouth ("greatness overcomes everything" or such blather), there is no way even the most talented player can force a title. I also think its somehow a cultural american thing, its not viewed the same in europe. I feel in the US, its either win it all or you failed. Rings for the GOAT, regular season wins for the MVP. Flawed imho.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Not all rings hold the same weight. There's Kevin Durant's multiple rings. There's Dirk Nowitzki's ring. Which is the bigger number. 1 or 2?

Depends how you rate making a team into probably the best ever team while winning a ring with them.

Since LeBron’s legacy substantially rests on beating a team which had won the most regular season games ever making a team the best play-offs team ever ranks higher imo.

That was Steph's team. I've argued this a million times and I'll say it again, KD's time on the Warriors has ultimately diminished his legacy. Nobody respects what he did and there is no nostalgia for that team and the years that have passed have not changed that. If anything, it aged worse since Steph won a title without KD a couple of years later.

I agree with teh premise that certain rings hold a much higher value than others, and i usually pull out the Dirk example as well. Others would be Giannis, Kawhi in Toronto and Jokic. I just dont understand your fixation on KD. He was just following LeBrons example of taking the easy superteam route to a ring. We should as a community refuse to give any respect to superteam ring chasers, and by superteam i mean multiple all stars/superstars/all NBA players colluding to get together as opposed to investing several years of time and risk to build something somewhere (which is why i dont consider the 2015, 2016 Warriors a superteam, nor the Westbrook / KD / Harden Thunder or the Kobe / Shaq Lakers).

[antonac]

If this is the case then people shouldn't bother evaluating players legacy.

Winning in sport is an objective measure of who is best, if a player wants to claim he's better than another player he better prove it on court not in the minds of armchair analysts and pundits.

Winning championships is the only thing that matters when evaluating a players legacy. Jokic would trade his 3 MVPs for another ring in a heartbeat.

[michaelm]

You're completely right. Winning isn't the point of sport. Cancel the medal count at the Olympics, it's all about accumulating advanced stats

It's amazing how many people on realGM want to discount winning when basketball is one of the team sports where an individual has the biggest influence on winning. Brady is celebrated as the GOAT for his rings, and look at what winning the world cup did for Messis perception. Yet we got supposed basketball fans downplaying NBA championships. Absolute madness, OP must be a salty Harden fan

It is a little of both, but attempting to make the team sport of basketball about the pursuit of statistics for individual players takes it further the other way imo than over emphasis on rings does on that side of things. There are worthy players who never got the chance to win titles because of their circumstances but the players with multiple rings as significant contributors are the players recognised as the greats of the game whichever way anyone wants to slice it.

[michaelm]

Few things;

Lebron already has a strong argument over Jordan for GOAT so his 4 rings isn't what's holding him back. Nice try though.

Dubs were always Currys team. KD taking the most shots had no relevance in bearing on ranking. He is in the same boat as Karl Malone for me. Actually behind him if I'm being honest.

If this is a Jokic thread, just give it a rest already lol

Please tell me what that strong case is because I have never seen or heard it.

[Homer38]

Winning is very important but this is also not tennis.How you perform in big moment matter too.I mean the first 3 rings of Shaq have way more value that his ring with the heat

[Godymas]

Rings are one of the hardest things to achieve and rings as the 1st option on a team is easily the most impressive achievement in the NBA today.

In order to win a ring as the first option, first you had to play the regular season to get your team to the playoffs (most of the time). Then in the playoffs you had to play MORE on top of it to get your team to the finals. Once in the finals you had to beat another team that's just as good with another guy that's just like you trying to be the 1st option on a championship team.

Yes a ring is THE most important thing to evaluate a player's accomplishment, it requires so much play and sacrifice and ability. I mean look at the rings that Giannis/Steph/Jokic won in the decade. In order to get those rings all 3 of those players had to have historical performances in the finals.

Giannis had to put up 50 points to close out Phx. Steph had his amazing game in Boston to put Golden State back in the series. Jokic averaged a 30 point triple double basically to get the ring. Boston was more of a case of their GM stacking the deck in their favor. You saw what happened to Dallas. They made the finals and acted like they won. Luka was ready to relax, he's young and he was gassed. The true level of fitness and conditioning to win a ring is one of one.

[MavsDirk41]

LeBron's 3 championships with 3 separate teams does a lot of heavy lifting. I doubt he wants people not to care about rings.

Obviously rings aren't everything otherwise Big Shot Bob would be a top 20 player

Big shot Rob is meaningless, because he is a role player. Nobody would put him above any ATG because he was a great role player in many championship teams.

Lebron is the player who has more to gain not counting rings, because people would count his cumulative stats, which are very good.

If the king was interested only in top 10 , he would want to count rings, but to be better he has not enough of them

Well LeBron has 4 championships. Yes it's not near Russell at 11. But 4 is still plenty to make any case for top 10 or 5 or GOAT for most. Those who care about rings above all typically choose Russell but I don't think that's even more than 5% of NBA fans.

Goat for most? Did you see the recent poll? Pretty sure Jordan is leading the poll on here again. Dont care that James is your goat but he is not goat for “most” as you say.

[Homer38]

Big shot Rob is meaningless, because he is a role player. Nobody would put him above any ATG because he was a great role player in many championship teams.

Lebron is the player who has more to gain not counting rings, because people would count his cumulative stats, which are very good.

If the king was interested only in top 10 , he would want to count rings, but to be better he has not enough of them

Well LeBron has 4 championships. Yes it's not near Russell at 11. But 4 is still plenty to make any case for top 10 or 5 or GOAT for most. Those who care about rings above all typically choose Russell but I don't think that's even more than 5% of NBA fans.

Goat for most? Did you see the recent poll? Pretty sure Jordan is leading the poll on here again. Dont care that James is your goat but he is not goat for “most” as you say.

This vote at that thread is like the all-star voting.A popularity contest.This poll doesn't mean much.

James,Russell and Kareem also have a case over Jordan like winning for Russell and a much longer prime for LBJ and Kareem and they both did win a lot too

[Homer38]

Well LeBron has 4 championships. Yes it's not near Russell at 11. But 4 is still plenty to make any case for top 10 or 5 or GOAT for most. Those who care about rings above all typically choose Russell but I don't think that's even more than 5% of NBA fans.

Goat for most? Did you see the recent poll? Pretty sure Jordan is leading the poll on here again. Dont care that James is your goat but he is not goat for “most” as you say.

This vote at that thread is like the all-star voting.A popularity contest.This poll doesn't mean much.

James,Russell and Kareem also have a case over Jordan like winning for Russell and a much longer prime for LBJ and Kareem and they both did win a lot too

Russell and Kareem have only 8 total vote combined in 110 votes right now(4 each)...It show how bad the voting can be

[hardenASG13]

Tf??? Giannis, dirk and jokic rings def weigh more than any of the heat’s rings with LeBron, wade, bosh, and any of the warrior rings with KD, klay, Steph, draymond

Stop it

I disagree with the Giannis and Jokic part. Look who they beat. Why is beating injured brooklyn/Atl/Phoenix for Giannis, and a bad Minnesota/Phoenix/Lakers/Heat more impressive than beating the Big 3 Celtics/OKC thunder in 2012, or beating the 2013 Spurs? Giannis and Jokic didn't beat any quality teams during those runs, and haven't any other years either. It's true, look it up.

If Dirks title didnt include beating OKC and Miami, and instead they played the 7 seed New Orleans in the WCF and 8 seed from the east, Indiana, in the finals, it'd be viewed differently, right? It's great because of who they beat.