Jeff Schwartz via Shams: Los Angeles Lakers should not have failed Mark Williams on his physical

[facothomas22]

Yeah the NBA should step in and investigate this. Something tells the Lakers did something very shady and the GM Ordered the medical staff to fail Mark Williams physical to order to justify backing out of the trade

[ChiTownHero1992]

Even damaged he's better than anything they currently got at that spot....should've went with it and hoped for the best

[ForeverTFC]

I think the confusing part of this is people think failed physical is some black and white thing like a math test. Obviously the human body is much more complex. You can be fully fit to play today, but have risk factors that a team isn’t comfortable with long term

Lakers invested a lot of assets in Mark and wanted to be certain that they could rely on him long term. Whatever the results were, they didn’t feel 100% confident in that. It’s unfair to Mark, who is currently fine and playing well, but it’s business and fully within the rules to do that.

Well said.

Teams just can't back out of deals citing "medical concerns" if there are none - the league office would not allow that. With that said, I don't know what the justifiable threshold is (could be low for all we know) to fail someone at their physical. And other teams may have been fine with what they saw. But we see this all the time: there are draft prospects that some medical teams blacklist and others don't - it comes down to the risk the team is willing to take.

I do feel bad for Williams as he probably lost some leverage for his next contract by being branded as damaged goods so publicly. The Hornets will be fine: yeah it's awkward now, but if he is healthy as they say, then this might have given them a discount on his next contract by decreasing competition/demand for him.

[BlacJacMac]

I think the confusing part of this is people think failed physical is some black and white thing like a math test. Obviously the human body is much more complex. You can be fully fit to play today, but have risk factors that a team isn’t comfortable with long term

Lakers invested a lot of assets in Mark and wanted to be certain that they could rely on him long term. Whatever the results were, they didn’t feel 100% confident in that. It’s unfair to Mark, who is currently fine and playing well, but it’s business and fully within the rules to do that.

Well said.

Teams just can't back out of deals citing "medical concerns" if there are none - the league office would not allow that. With that said, I don't know what the justifiable threshold is (could be low for all we know) to fail someone at their physical. And other teams may have been fine with what they saw. But we see this all the time: there are draft prospects that some medical teams blacklist and others don't - it comes down to the risk the team is willing to take.

I do feel bad for Williams as he probably lost some leverage for his next contract by being branded as damaged goods so publicly. The Hornets will be fine: yeah it's awkward now, but if he is healthy as they say, then this might have given them a discount on his next contract by decreasing competition/demand for him.

I think that ship had sailed before the trade.

[madmaxmedia]

I mean this isn't controversial.

He's a very talented player who has been riddled by injuries his entire career so far and they determined in the long-term he's a huge liability.

He missed 60 games last year and has already missed half of this season.

The Lakers probably determined he likely would be riddled by injuries for the rest of his career based on what they found out.

I'm sure there is nuance to these things anyway. Whether a team 'should' or 'shouldn't' fail a player's physical is an pretty arbitrary distinction. Nothing is for sure, especially if you are trying to assess the likelihood that a player will be generally healthy or is there is a significant risk of future injury.

[facothomas22]

I mean this isn't controversial.

He's a very talented player who has been riddled by injuries his entire career so far and they determined in the long-term he's a huge liability.

He missed 60 games last year and has already missed half of this season.

The Lakers probably determined he likely would be riddled by injuries for the rest of his career based on what they found out.

The issue here is that they already knew he had a injury history. Shouldn't have made the trade to begin with if they were so concerned. You can't just agreed to do a trade on principle, only to back out after you realised you overpayed. It's quite the Lakers failed Mark Williams physicals on purpose in order to justify backing out of the trade.The NBA needs to investigate this and make a example out of them in order to make it loud and clear to the other 29 teams in the NBA that you can't just back out of trade after you already agreed to do the deal to begin with.

[tamaraw08]

Yeah the NBA should step in and investigate this. Something tells the Lakers did something very shady and the GM Ordered the medical staff to fail Mark Williams physical to order to justify backing out of the trade

You really think the Medical Professionals who did all these tests/scans would risk losing their licenses to make up bogus results just because the Lakers asked them to?
From Radiology/MRI techs, Licensed Radiologists, Orthopedic Specialists, Sports Medicine team Doctors? really?

[JustBuzzin]

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Read on Twitter

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This is fine as a Hornets fan.

Just means we will be rewarded Flagg for not pursuing this and making the Lakers look bad.

Lakers vs Hornets on ESPN next season going to be cray cray!

[ConSarnit]

I mean this isn't controversial.

He's a very talented player who has been riddled by injuries his entire career so far and they determined in the long-term he's a huge liability.

He missed 60 games last year and has already missed half of this season.

The Lakers probably determined he likely would be riddled by injuries for the rest of his career based on what they found out.

The issue here is that they already knew he had a injury history. Shouldn't have made the trade to begin with if they were so concerned. You can't just agreed to do a trade on principle, only to back out after you realised you overpayed. It's quite the Lakers failed Mark Williams physicals on purpose in order to justify backing out of the trade.The NBA needs to investigate this and make a example out of them in order to make it loud and clear to the other 29 teams in the NBA that you can't just back out of trade after you already agreed to do the deal to begin with.

Every report that came out has stated that the Lakers did not back out because of William's previous injuries but due to other issues. These would have been issues they were unaware of and discovered during their own testing. The Lakers and Hornets could also have differing perspectives based on long term outlooks. If the Hornets think Williams will be healthy over the next 2-3 years that doesn't really align with the Lakers goals who probably are interested in William's health outlook over the next 4-5 years (or beyond).

Also, I don't understand why the Laker's would back out of this trade based on public sentiment when public sentiment was evenly split on the Williams trade. The Lakers weren't getting destroyed in the media or by their fans over this trade. Even the sentiment on this board was split 50/50. I don't buy the backing out excuse at all, especially given the massive PR high the Lakers were riding on from the Luka trade.

[phanman]

I mean this isn't controversial.

He's a very talented player who has been riddled by injuries his entire career so far and they determined in the long-term he's a huge liability.

He missed 60 games last year and has already missed half of this season.

The Lakers probably determined he likely would be riddled by injuries for the rest of his career based on what they found out.

The issue here is that they already knew he had a injury history. Shouldn't have made the trade to begin with if they were so concerned. You can't just agreed to do a trade on principle, only to back out after you realised you overpayed. It's quite the Lakers failed Mark Williams physicals on purpose in order to justify backing out of the trade.The NBA needs to investigate this and make a example out of them in order to make it loud and clear to the other 29 teams in the NBA that you can't just back out of trade after you already agreed to do the deal to begin with.

You can't just make assumptions based on things you don't know about. Just because the media has created a narrative that they overpaid, it doesn't make it true.

Yes they knew he had an injury history but they weren't privy to his entire medical history until they made the trade. It's precisely the reason why trades in general are pending a physical

[Ducklett]

sorry but you can be some national big shot doctor, but if you haven't examined the patient your opinion has no real merit. And none of those doctors would put their name to said opinion without having examined him.

This is meaningless PR.

It is the same for those stupid youtube/tiktok psychologists that diagnose famous people based on videos. It is right on the Grey area of illegal and certainly in their profession unethical, but the dollar is the dollar.

I don't think this kind of PR would have been needed if there wasn't throngs of fans (including the insane ramblings on that 20 page thread here) that Mark Williams and the Hornets had this elaborate conspiracy where they were hiding some secret information and trying to scam the Lakers.

[facothomas22]

Yeah the NBA should step in and investigate this. Something tells the Lakers did something very shady and the GM Ordered the medical staff to fail Mark Williams physical to order to justify backing out of the trade

You really think the Medical Professionals who did all these tests/scans would risk losing their licenses to make up bogus results just because the Lakers asked them to?
From Radiology/MRI techs, Licensed Radiologists, Orthopedic Specialists, Sports Medicine team Doctors? really?

We know teams do shady stuff all the time and are simply hoping the NBA doesn't find out. The Lakers knew he had a injury history before they traded for him. I doubt anything actually showed up that wasn't already known to the public. Teams can fail a player physical based on they deemed to be necessary. The only way you can fail a player physical is they have additional serious medical issues that wasn't already known before. I don't see any evidence that leads us to that. I believe the Lakers simply had cold feet and wanted to save their remaining picks,so they made a excuse to back out of a agreed upon deal.

[Texas Chuck]

sorry but you can be some national big shot doctor, but if you haven't examined the patient your opinion has no real merit. And none of those doctors would put their name to said opinion without having examined him.

This is meaningless PR.

How do you know the docs Schwartz mentions didn't examine the same medicals? Why wouldn't they?

It's also possible the agent is talking his book, of course, but hard to say either way from our vantage point.

Edit: For the record I have no issue with LAL failing Mark on his physical. You can do that for any reason, and even be wrong (Thunder failed Tyson Chandler who went on to win a title with the Mavs and win DPOY), it's all within the rules.

Didn't say they didn't evaluate whatever medical info the agent shared with them(if any) but that is not a replacement for doing your own examination. And again unless he gets these doctors on record, its meaningless PR.

And nobody blames him for doing PR, but it has no bearing on what the Lakers decided.

[DonaldSanders]

It was probably cold feet. The Lakers probably heard the stat "Mark Williams has only played in 38% of his career games" and got scared....after they made the trade.

According to Lakers Radio play by play guy John Ireland, also host of the Mason & Ireland show at ESPNLA radio, Lakers have at least 3 doctors who made the final decision.
They also probably read the MRI results reported by a reputable Radiologist and saw something disturbing. Also note that this team also endured having an injury prone Andrew Bynum before and paid dearly for it.

And the Lakers have a doc that is one of the best in the world, with an absurdly good reputation and record. I'd find anything other than a legit medical assessment to be a shock.

[facothomas22]

I mean this isn't controversial.

He's a very talented player who has been riddled by injuries his entire career so far and they determined in the long-term he's a huge liability.

He missed 60 games last year and has already missed half of this season.

The Lakers probably determined he likely would be riddled by injuries for the rest of his career based on what they found out.

The issue here is that they already knew he had a injury history. Shouldn't have made the trade to begin with if they were so concerned. You can't just agreed to do a trade on principle, only to back out after you realised you overpayed. It's quite the Lakers failed Mark Williams physicals on purpose in order to justify backing out of the trade.The NBA needs to investigate this and make a example out of them in order to make it loud and clear to the other 29 teams in the NBA that you can't just back out of trade after you already agreed to do the deal to begin with.

Every report that came out has stated that the Lakers did not back out because of William's previous injuries but due to other issues. These would have been issues they were unaware of and discovered during their own testing. The Lakers and Hornets could also have differing perspectives based on long term outlooks. If the Hornets think Williams will be healthy over the next 2-3 years that doesn't really align with the Lakers goals who probably are interested in William's health outlook over the next 4-5 years (or beyond).

Also, I don't understand why the Laker's would back out of this trade based on public sentiment when public sentiment was evenly split on the Williams trade. The Lakers weren't getting destroyed in the media or by their fans over this trade. Even the sentiment on this board was split 50/50. I don't buy the backing out excuse at all, especially given the massive PR high the Lakers were riding on from the Luka trade.

The question is what other issues did he have that wasn't already known? Why not be more transparent if that's really the case? Based on Mark Williams recent about the fact he was surprised he failed his physical and and based on this report, I feel it's much more likely the Lakers failed Mark Williams physical because they knew they grossly overpaid to get him and had buyers remorse. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lakers GM order the medical staff to fail Mark Williams for stuff that has nothing to do with his physical and if that's the case, the NBA needs to hand out severe consequences against the Lakers.

[Invictus88]

The issue here is that they already knew he had a injury history. Shouldn't have made the trade to begin with if they were so concerned. You can't just agreed to do a trade on principle, only to back out after you realised you overpayed. It's quite the Lakers failed Mark Williams physicals on purpose in order to justify backing out of the trade.The NBA needs to investigate this and make a example out of them in order to make it loud and clear to the other 29 teams in the NBA that you can't just back out of trade after you already agreed to do the deal to begin with.

Every report that came out has stated that the Lakers did not back out because of William's previous injuries but due to other issues. These would have been issues they were unaware of and discovered during their own testing. The Lakers and Hornets could also have differing perspectives based on long term outlooks. If the Hornets think Williams will be healthy over the next 2-3 years that doesn't really align with the Lakers goals who probably are interested in William's health outlook over the next 4-5 years (or beyond).

Also, I don't understand why the Laker's would back out of this trade based on public sentiment when public sentiment was evenly split on the Williams trade. The Lakers weren't getting destroyed in the media or by their fans over this trade. Even the sentiment on this board was split 50/50. I don't buy the backing out excuse at all, especially given the massive PR high the Lakers were riding on from the Luka trade.

The question is what other issues did he have that wasn't already known? Why not be more transparent if that's really the case? Based on Mark Williams recent about the fact he was surprised he failed his physical and and based on this report, I feel it's much more likely the Lakers failed Mark Williams physical because they knew they grossly overpaid to get him and had buyers remorse. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lakers GM order the medical staff to fail Mark Williams for stuff that has nothing to do with his physical and if that's the case, the NBA needs to hand out severe consequences against the Lakers.

I'm trying hard to believe you aren't aware of patient privacy / confidentiality concerns? A person going to any doctor's office has to sign forms even to allow them to discuss your condition with their colleagues for assisting in a diagnosis.

Being 'transparent' in terms of letting the general public know the condition is completely out of bounds. But don't let that lack of information stop you from then crafting wild unsubstantiated theories and then trying to pass them off as being factual.

[Wallace_Wallace]

Completely different scenario of course, but Luka was still dealing with a calf injury and Davis always had trouble staying healthy. If there was “remorse”, could Dallas or LA use medical reason to rescind the trade?

[Drakeem]

I mean this isn't controversial.

He's a very talented player who has been riddled by injuries his entire career so far and they determined in the long-term he's a huge liability.

He missed 60 games last year and has already missed half of this season.

The Lakers probably determined he likely would be riddled by injuries for the rest of his career based on what they found out.

But they knew this when they traded for him. Unless they found something that is beyond what was reported already publicly, you just gotta accept it.

[ConSarnit]

The issue here is that they already knew he had a injury history. Shouldn't have made the trade to begin with if they were so concerned. You can't just agreed to do a trade on principle, only to back out after you realised you overpayed. It's quite the Lakers failed Mark Williams physicals on purpose in order to justify backing out of the trade.The NBA needs to investigate this and make a example out of them in order to make it loud and clear to the other 29 teams in the NBA that you can't just back out of trade after you already agreed to do the deal to begin with.

Every report that came out has stated that the Lakers did not back out because of William's previous injuries but due to other issues. These would have been issues they were unaware of and discovered during their own testing. The Lakers and Hornets could also have differing perspectives based on long term outlooks. If the Hornets think Williams will be healthy over the next 2-3 years that doesn't really align with the Lakers goals who probably are interested in William's health outlook over the next 4-5 years (or beyond).

Also, I don't understand why the Laker's would back out of this trade based on public sentiment when public sentiment was evenly split on the Williams trade. The Lakers weren't getting destroyed in the media or by their fans over this trade. Even the sentiment on this board was split 50/50. I don't buy the backing out excuse at all, especially given the massive PR high the Lakers were riding on from the Luka trade.

The question is what other issues did he have that wasn't already known? Why not be more transparent if that's really the case? Based on Mark Williams recent about the fact he was surprised he failed his physical and and based on this report, I feel it's much more likely the Lakers failed Mark Williams physical because they knew they grossly overpaid to get him and had buyers remorse. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lakers GM order the medical staff to fail Mark Williams for stuff that has nothing to do with his physical and if that's the case, the NBA needs to hand out severe consequences against the Lakers.

It might be a HIPPA violation to disclose what they found.

And I'll repeat: there was no major public backlash to this trade. You are making this up. The media and public were both split on opinions. Here are the trade grades for the Lakers from major media outlets:

ESPN: B
The Athletic: A
Bleacher Report: D
Yahoo! Sports: A
Fox Sports: A-
RealGM Poll: 43% favoring Lakers

So again, where was the supposed public outrage over this trade?

[magee]

Was Pelinka quoted about how he's still growing into his body? If that's the case, it's clearly growth plate issues and erred on the side of caution thinking he would have injuries related to that.