Kobe NOT Top 10 Argument

[maxpower8888]

Kobe gets slandered to hell on this board, it's insane. Even just taking his years without Shaq he has one of the best resumes of all time.

In 12 seasons (with the last 3 being injury plagued so really in 9 seasons):

2x NBA Champion
3x Finals appearances
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP
12x All-Star
8x All-NBA First Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
6x All-Defensive First Team
1x All-Defensive Second Team
2x Scoring Champion

That part of his resume alone puts him in the top 10. Too many people on this board just look at his stats and say "he was inefficient, therefore he was overrated" and it's funny. Players, analysts, pundits, EVERYONE has him as a consensus top 5-10 player, but this board thinks they're smarter than everyone else.

No they don't. Show me any top 100 list with him in the top 10 from the last 5 years.

Dec, 2024 (#10): https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/los-angeles-lakers/news/ranking-top-10-greatest-nba-players-ever-whats-wrong-list/2bf2a0279ba9e5c706ba1148

Jun, 2023 (#5): https://www.complex.com/sports/a/adam-caparell/best-nba-players-of-all-time-ranked

2 weeks ago (#5): https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Nov, 2024 (#5): https://blog.imago-images.com/en/the-best-basketball-players-of-all-time

Random reddit thread (most posters have him on their lists): https://www.reddit.com/r/NBATalk/comments/1ezlg6s/whats_your_top_10_alltime/?rdt=62625

Nov, 2024 (#8): https://hoopshype.com/lists/78-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

[The Explorer]

A lot of ppl have Kobe in their top 10s, and he was definitely a great player but I don’t think he can be in there for one simple reason: he was a poor man’s MJ. Period. He literally mimicked Jordan’s game down to his mannerisms and trying hard to be a psycho competitor that trashes team mates in practice etc. but he was not as good. Jordan clears him in basically everything.

The top 10 should be reserved for ORIGINALS, not copy cats. Almost everyone else in most top 10 lists was unique, except Kobe.

So you knock Kobe out of the top 10 because he's trying to be MJ yet you ignore

- LeBron James: "“I wear No. 23 because of Michael Jordan. I think he was the greatest basketball player ever.”
- Lebron James saying he's chasing the ghost who played in Chicago
- LeBron James tried to mirror Jordan by staring in a Space Jam movie, only to fail badly
- LeBron James in 2018 after making fadeaways against the Raptors: "I mean, you just look at some of the greatest that’s played this game: MJ, Kobe, those guys that I kind of looked up to when I was younger and obviously I grew up watching those guys. Just studying the footwork that they had, the ability to make tough shots. You know, it's just a lot of inspiration from those guys."

So he's right there with Kobe as far as not being original and should not be top 10 either.

They play nothing alike though lol. Kobe is a legit copy cat that wasn’t as good. Imagine in 50 years there’s another great player that’s also a copy cat but has the achievements to get into the top 10 . You would be okay with having 2 poor man’s versions in the all-time top 10?

You said Kobe is not top 10 because he's not original. Lebron is not original either, from from it. I gave you several examples.

[dhsilv2]

Kobe gets slandered to hell on this board, it's insane. Even just taking his years without Shaq he has one of the best resumes of all time.

In 12 seasons (with the last 3 being injury plagued so really in 9 seasons):

2x NBA Champion
3x Finals appearances
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP
12x All-Star
8x All-NBA First Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
6x All-Defensive First Team
1x All-Defensive Second Team
2x Scoring Champion

That part of his resume alone puts him in the top 10. Too many people on this board just look at his stats and say "he was inefficient, therefore he was overrated" and it's funny. Players, analysts, pundits, EVERYONE has him as a consensus top 5-10 player, but this board thinks they're smarter than everyone else.

No they don't. Show me any top 100 list with him in the top 10 from the last 5 years.

Dec, 2024 (#10): https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/los-angeles-lakers/news/ranking-top-10-greatest-nba-players-ever-whats-wrong-list/2bf2a0279ba9e5c706ba1148

Jun, 2023 (#5): https://www.complex.com/sports/a/adam-caparell/best-nba-players-of-all-time-ranked

2 weeks ago (#5): https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Nov, 2024 (#5): https://blog.imago-images.com/en/the-best-basketball-players-of-all-time

Random reddit thread (most posters have him on their lists): https://www.reddit.com/r/NBATalk/comments/1ezlg6s/whats_your_top_10_alltime/?rdt=62625

Nov, 2024 (#8): https://hoopshype.com/lists/78-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

So not a single top 100 list? And a reddit thread?

[Special_Puppy]

I don't think it matters if you are a copycat or not. Box Score Composites do have Kobe as around the ~9th greatest player of all time. Some of the better advanced stats do place Kobe lower than that though.

[maxpower8888]

No they don't. Show me any top 100 list with him in the top 10 from the last 5 years.

Dec, 2024 (#10): https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/los-angeles-lakers/news/ranking-top-10-greatest-nba-players-ever-whats-wrong-list/2bf2a0279ba9e5c706ba1148

Jun, 2023 (#5): https://www.complex.com/sports/a/adam-caparell/best-nba-players-of-all-time-ranked

2 weeks ago (#5): https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Nov, 2024 (#5): https://blog.imago-images.com/en/the-best-basketball-players-of-all-time

Random reddit thread (most posters have him on their lists): https://www.reddit.com/r/NBATalk/comments/1ezlg6s/whats_your_top_10_alltime/?rdt=62625

Nov, 2024 (#8): https://hoopshype.com/lists/78-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

So not a single top 100 list? And a reddit thread?

Ahh yes, ONLY top 100 counts, because you can't determine a top 10 without first arbitrarily ranking guys from #100 to #11. Nice moving of the goal posts.

Side note: This is my 1,000th post on this board.

[TheGeneral99]

Yeah I have Kobe slotted around 12-13...not top 10.

Obviously one of the all-time greats.

Can't put him ahead of Jordan, Lebron, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Duncan, Steph, Hakeem...

[dhsilv2]

Dec, 2024 (#10): https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/los-angeles-lakers/news/ranking-top-10-greatest-nba-players-ever-whats-wrong-list/2bf2a0279ba9e5c706ba1148

Jun, 2023 (#5): https://www.complex.com/sports/a/adam-caparell/best-nba-players-of-all-time-ranked

2 weeks ago (#5): https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Nov, 2024 (#5): https://blog.imago-images.com/en/the-best-basketball-players-of-all-time

Random reddit thread (most posters have him on their lists): https://www.reddit.com/r/NBATalk/comments/1ezlg6s/whats_your_top_10_alltime/?rdt=62625

Nov, 2024 (#8): https://hoopshype.com/lists/78-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

So not a single top 100 list? And a reddit thread?

Ahh yes, ONLY top 100 counts, because you can't determine a top 10 without first arbitrarily ranking guys from #100 to #11. Nice moving of the goal posts.

Side note: This is my 1,000th post on this board.

Do you know what a moving goal post is? I didn't move anything. I said show me a top 100 list. I did that because most shorter lists are sloppy and poorly done because they didn't have to take the time to build a full list that made any kind of sense.

Mind you I'll give you the hoops hype list, as 100 is a bit arbitrary and 78 is perfectly reasonable. It's still just 1 list.

[Luke]

34 years Kobe old embarassing 27 years old Lebron is enough for Lebronettes and leklutch influencers to try to diminish Kobe's accomplishments in his entire career, everytime they can.

Kobe stole Lebron's soul

Leblocked has to thanks the referee that had mercy of him and whistled the 3rd block

We know why Lebron camp has his trolls in full force to try to slander Kobe

Watch on YouTube

[SkyHook]

The first kid who got the ball into the peach basket? GOAT

Exactly. Where's HIS statue?!?

[maxpower8888]

So not a single top 100 list? And a reddit thread?

Ahh yes, ONLY top 100 counts, because you can't determine a top 10 without first arbitrarily ranking guys from #100 to #11. Nice moving of the goal posts.

Side note: This is my 1,000th post on this board.

Do you know what a moving goal post is? I didn't move anything. I said show me a top 100 list. I did that because most shorter lists are sloppy and poorly done because they didn't have to take the time to build a full list that made any kind of sense.

Mind you I'll give you the hoops hype list, as 100 is a bit arbitrary and 78 is perfectly reasonable. It's still just 1 list.

The argument is if he's top 10. I showed you lists of him in the top 10 within the past 2 years, I don't care if you don't count them because you asked for "top 100".

You really should've googled it first before asking the question bro, it took me all of 2 minutes to compose that list.

[Pelon chingon]

Not to mention his DPOYS belong to D. Christie.

[Calvin Klein]

He is not top 10 for me but that’s a pretty stupid reason

[carlquincy]

This thread is not complete until a certain individual graces us with his presence.

[bovice]

the impact vs skill debate isn't a fleshed out discussion in sports. maybe I should make a thread about it.

[Liam_Gallagher]

When Kobe doesn't win Finals MVP: "He isn't a leader! He's a robbin, not top 10!"

When Duncan doesn't win Finals MVP: "Wow, what a great teammate. Top 10 confirmed."

[Himothy Duncan]

So you knock Kobe out of the top 10 because he's trying to be MJ yet you ignore

- LeBron James: "“I wear No. 23 because of Michael Jordan. I think he was the greatest basketball player ever.”
- Lebron James saying he's chasing the ghost who played in Chicago
- LeBron James tried to mirror Jordan by staring in a Space Jam movie, only to fail badly
- LeBron James in 2018 after making fadeaways against the Raptors: "I mean, you just look at some of the greatest that’s played this game: MJ, Kobe, those guys that I kind of looked up to when I was younger and obviously I grew up watching those guys. Just studying the footwork that they had, the ability to make tough shots. You know, it's just a lot of inspiration from those guys."

So he's right there with Kobe as far as not being original and should not be top 10 either.

They play nothing alike though lol. Kobe is a legit copy cat that wasn’t as good. Imagine in 50 years there’s another great player that’s also a copy cat but has the achievements to get into the top 10 . You would be okay with having 2 poor man’s versions in the all-time top 10?

You said Kobe is not top 10 because he's not original. Lebron is not original either, from from it. I gave you several examples.

No you didn’t, you just gave examples of him looking up to Jordan. He doesn’t dribble the same, shoot the same, pump fake the same, dribble with his tongue out, all that crap that Kobe did. Every player in most top 10s is original except Kobe, these are the facts. If you’re not an original you should at least be better than the player before yoi, that should be a minimum criteria to get into the top 10.

[therealbig3]

i think most people have him either at the end of the top 10 or just outside it. Certainly in the top 20. Which is fine, people act like there's some huge difference between being 10th or 20th all time. You're still in the 99th percentile of all players ever.

But what I will say is that I think he tends to get a little underrated when you start putting him closer to the top 20 rather than 10. I'm not someone that typically gives bonus points for rings, I'm mainly interested in how good you were as a player and how long you were able to sustain it, and with that said, I think guys that are surefire ahead of Kobe all time, in no order:

LeBron, Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Garnett.

That's 9. But I think Kobe has a reasonable case against the likes of Wilt, Bird, Oscar, West, Dirk, Curry, and K. Malone. Reasonable meaning I could see a case that makes sense, but I may not necessarily agree. I'd probably still take Wilt over him, probably Oscar as well, but I think based on the combination of longevity and durability and peak, I'd probably take Kobe over the rest. I will say, I think Giannis and Jokic are almost sure fire locks to displace Kobe as they keep racking up MVP-level seasons.

[dhsilv2]

Ahh yes, ONLY top 100 counts, because you can't determine a top 10 without first arbitrarily ranking guys from #100 to #11. Nice moving of the goal posts.

Side note: This is my 1,000th post on this board.

Do you know what a moving goal post is? I didn't move anything. I said show me a top 100 list. I did that because most shorter lists are sloppy and poorly done because they didn't have to take the time to build a full list that made any kind of sense.

Mind you I'll give you the hoops hype list, as 100 is a bit arbitrary and 78 is perfectly reasonable. It's still just 1 list.

The argument is if he's top 10. I showed you lists of him in the top 10 within the past 2 years, I don't care if you don't count them because you asked for "top 100".

You really should've googled it first before asking the question bro, it took me all of 2 minutes to compose that list.

Yeah you got a list of extremely low quality in that 2 minutes. Because quality lists are not listing him in the top 10.

[JRoy]

Top 30

[Lalouie]

A lot of ppl have Kobe in their top 10s, and he was definitely a great player but I don’t think he can be in there for one simple reason: he was a poor man’s MJ. Period. He literally mimicked Jordan’s game down to his mannerisms and trying hard to be a psycho competitor that trashes team mates in practice etc. but he was not as good. Jordan clears him in basically everything.

The top 10 should be reserved for ORIGINALS, not copy cats. Almost everyone else in most top 10 lists was unique, except Kobe.

kobe occupies a unique space in basketball. he was woven into the PUBLIC consciousness and/or hearts. there have been six - magic, mj, wilt, kobe, kareem/alcindor, shaq. i might add curry but curry doesn't fit in the picture imho

it's the "image" and they all have a presence outside of basketball