Is the 2nd Apron too harsh?

[SWedd523]

Sounds like the second apron is doing its job.

[og15]

You can thank the 2022 Warriors. Joe Lacob threw it in everyone's face he didn't care how much he spent or the penalties, because he could afford both.

The only way the NBA thought they could slow teams from blowing past the salary cap or luxury tax was add basketball penalties. The financial penalties clearly were not doing the trick.

A lot of the trades this season were pointed directly at the new CBA, as the reason.

It's not simply the Warriors, and all the owners agreed to this too, it wasn't the NBA imposing it on them without them having a choice.

I think the complaint before by some was that the penalties of spending a lot were not harsh enough, so I guess if we think it's too harsh, that is how they want it.

I do agree that it is pretty harsh, but if that's the goal, then I guess it is doing its job.

For some owners, maybe they like it because it gives them an out when fans say, "why won't they spend to keep winning".

[tmorgan]

I love it.

I won’t love it as much if Tom Gores and Trajan Langdon make poor decisions in the future.

Self-interest, obviously.

I do think the Player’s Union got badly hoodwinked when accepting it, though.

[OxAndFox]

The thing that is way overboard is the pick situation because in all likelihood those picks will be valuable as they are cost restricted ways to build your team.

There have been issues with the idea of basically buying a championship ever since implementation of the rookie scale and true free agency. You had teams like the JailBlazers,Knicks and Mavs that were consistently over the cap with inflated budgets. Ironically enough they never won but doing that. Now with the current structure of revenue that comes in, there is more money than ever. I am of the opinion that you should keep your team and not be penalized for having a home grown player become a superstar. It is the reason why Luka was traded, because he would have been able to get a FU Supermax contract. I would propose having the home grown supermax contracts be counted differently compared to a traded or signed off of free agency max contract.

Agreed. I've said this since the supermax was created. They did it to help teams keep players, but then went out of their way to make sure they couldn't afford to do it.
The supermax should simply be counted as a max to the salary cap. Everyone wins then. The player gets the bigger payment (something I think not many will be getting any more) and the team keeps some sort of flexibility.
If said player is traded, the supermax salary goes with him and onto the next teams' cap sheet instead of a regular max.

[shrink]

It should be pointed out that the restrictions didn’t prevent an active trade deadline, as some predicted.

My only issue is the rule preventing teams from taking back more money in trades should be set at the second apron, not the first.

Here are the rules, for those that aren’t familiar

Read on Twitter

[CROBulls]

No there are too many players in NBA playing this sport just for money. And too many owners who keeping team for revenue reasons not investing enough to get better. This CBA is proving who are spenders and who are garbage, both players and owners. We need 3rd and 4th and 5th aprons.

EDIT: I wanted to say that 2nd apron is not restrictive. If anything should be encouraged. It keeps certain low quality GM's from doing terrible moves and spending money on guys like Patrick Williams who should not be on basketball floor playing this sport, let alone playing NBA. If you making mess of your team giving money to players who dont deserve it, you dont deserve a bail out cards.

More money to guys who deserve it, less who dont and no issues. And for owners side, less money for play in revenue teams. Those teams dont deserve to be awarded. If anything play ins were always terrible idea. It makes teams like Chicago a bad basketball team long term.

[Sofia]

Mavs are an injury away from not being able to field a team due to restrictions on how many games their g league players can play, and the hard cap.

Yes the Luca trade was dumb, but injuries happen, and not allowing a free falling team to even use g league players to reach minimum roster numbers is also dumb.
Parts of the CBA are too restrictive

[Sofia]

Also, increased tax penalties just shuffles money back to the owners who refuse to spend money (shout out to Chicago) and puts downward pressure on the “middle class” salary range. The stars will still get paid, the savings will come out of the next tiers.

[Onlytimewilltel]

No I love it. Hard cap would have been nicer but I’m perfectly happy with the 2nd apron penalties.

[xdrta+]

Mavs are an injury away from not being able to field a team due to restrictions on how many games their g league players can play, and the hard cap.

Yes the Luca trade was dumb, but injuries happen, and not allowing a free falling team to even use g league players to reach minimum roster numbers is also dumb.
Parts of the CBA are too restrictive

Neither of those things have anything to do with the new CBA. The total games for G-league increased in this CBA, from 45 days to 50 games, and the hard cap would have been just the same under the previous CBA, since they acquired a player in a S&T.

[Ayt]

How do people create a thread with a question then completely flip the question in the poll they create? How does that happen?

[Ssj16]

I feel like a good alteration to the rule should be that you should be absolved from tax penalties for players you drafted.

Teams like OKC, Denver, Boston, etc. shouldn't be penalized on drafting well. (I think I first heard this idea from Bill Simmons).

[MrBigShot]

My problem with it is that it's too punishing for teams just trying to retain their own guys they drafted. We are not an FA destination, and we are essentially going to have to decide who to get rid of because we can't pay all of Ausar, Duren, Stewart and Ivey.

[cgf]

The 2nd apron was essentially the owners way of getting the players to accept a hard cap without accepting a hard cap.

This. It’s a hard cap that it may sometimes make sense to violate temporarily. But the pick penalties preventing a team from just living in the 2nd apron even if they are nailing every draft picking and vet min signing, makes it function a lot like a hard cap.

[cgf]

I feel like a good alteration to the rule should be that you should be absolved from tax penalties for players you drafted.

Teams like OKC, Denver, Boston, etc. shouldn't be penalized on drafting well. (I think I first heard this idea from Bill Simmons).

This would punish teams who found players that were under valued by the teams who drafted them, and gave them the opportunities to flourish that they didn’t have with their first teams.

Guys like Brunson and Randle reached heights no one expected of them because of the opportunities they got in New York.

[Edrees]

I voted scrap it, but I just realized we got Luka because of it so I'm all for it.

[og15]

Mavs are an injury away from not being able to field a team due to restrictions on how many games their g league players can play, and the hard cap.

Yes the Luca trade was dumb, but injuries happen, and not allowing a free falling team to even use g league players to reach minimum roster numbers is also dumb.
Parts of the CBA are too restrictive

That's one where there should simply be injury exceptions

[JujitsuFlip]

Mavs are an injury away from not being able to field a team due to restrictions on how many games their g league players can play, and the hard cap.

Yes the Luca trade was dumb, but injuries happen, and not allowing a free falling team to even use g league players to reach minimum roster numbers is also dumb.
Parts of the CBA are too restrictive

That's one where there should simply be injury exceptions

There is, to the roster number but not the financial implications.

And as long as the Mavs have 5 healthy guys, they're good. 3 injured guys can just wear uniforms and not enter the game.

Lakers know all about only having 5 healthy players, that is where this infamous photo came from.

[xchange55]

Hauser went from a two way player to a rotation player and it seems harsh to penalize a team too much for this internal growth.

You know the system is wacky when teams can’t afford their role players anymore.

As a C's fan, objectively I have to say the only reason why Hauser is going to be so expensive when considering the apron tax, is because they have Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White all making at least $20m this year (next season it will be at least $28m when Sam goes to $10m). You can't have it all when there is a cap/apron.

[Sofia]

Mavs are an injury away from not being able to field a team due to restrictions on how many games their g league players can play, and the hard cap.

Yes the Luca trade was dumb, but injuries happen, and not allowing a free falling team to even use g league players to reach minimum roster numbers is also dumb.
Parts of the CBA are too restrictive

Neither of those things have anything to do with the new CBA. The total games for G-league increased in this CBA, from 45 days to 50 games, and the hard cap would have been just the same under the previous CBA, since they acquired a player in a S&T.

I was commenting on the CBA more broadly, rather than changes. It may be less restrictive than previous in some aspects, but it’s still too restrictive in its current instance.