Best Player during the "Lebron Era"

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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#21 » by MrPainfulTruth » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:39 pm

Homer38 wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:Duncan was one Pop brain fart from being 6-0 and defeating James 3-0. Let that sink in. How the narrative would have changed. And it wasn’t James that saved them in that do or die game.


LeBron had 16 points in the fourth quarter of game 6,the reason why Allen had a chance to tie the game and 37 points in game 7....This is like saying that the 1993 finals Jordan was not why they won this finals because Paxton hit by far the biggest shot of that series

Nah. Its not about that. Its about Duncan being completely ignored here which is just wrong.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#22 » by Homer38 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:42 pm

MrPainfulTruth wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:Duncan was one Pop brain fart from being 6-0 and defeating James 3-0. Let that sink in. How the narrative would have changed. And it wasn’t James that saved them in that do or die game.


LeBron had 16 points in the fourth quarter of game 6,the reason why Allen had a chance to tie the game and 37 points in game 7....This is like saying that the 1993 finals Jordan was not why they won this finals because Paxton hit by far the biggest shot of that series

Nah. Its not about that. Its about Duncan being completely ignored here which is just wrong.



Fine but I put Duncan for 2003 to 2007....The rest of his arguments was still poor
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#23 » by hardenASG13 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:45 pm

LeBron was the best player from 2009 through the bubble, with the exception of 2016 curry in there.

Giannis got exposed in the playoffs the 2 years he won MVP. Neither he, Kawhi, Harden or KD were better than Lebron at any point during that time. Neither were Dirk, Duncan, etc.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#24 » by The4thHorseman » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:47 pm

Homer38 wrote:
MrPainfulTruth wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
LeBron had 16 points in the fourth quarter of game 6,the reason why Allen had a chance to tie the game and 37 points in game 7....This is like saying that the 1993 finals Jordan was not why they won this finals because Paxton hit by far the biggest shot of that series

Nah. Its not about that. Its about Duncan being completely ignored here which is just wrong.



Fine but I put Duncan for 2003 to 2007....The rest of his arguments was still poor

I agree with those years for Timmy. Then LeBron from 08-20.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#25 » by elchengue20 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:47 pm

SpreeChokeJob wrote:Duncan was one Pop brain fart from being 6-0 and defeating James 3-0. Let that sink in. How the narrative would have changed. And it wasn’t James that saved them in that do or die game.


Lol Lebron scored or assisted in like the Heat last 15 points before Ray 3 pointer. Also was playing with a hobbled Wade against a team with 4 HOF. Basketball its not a 1vs1 sport, those narratives are dumb for casuals only.

Plus absolutely dominated in game 7.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#26 » by The Master » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:51 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:LeBron was the best player from 2009 through the bubble, with the exception of 2016 curry in there.

2004-2005: Duncan
2006: Wade
2007: Duncan
2008: KG/LeBron (LeBron was close to eliminate Celtics that year despite having much inferior roster)
2009: LeBron
2010: LeBron/Bryant maybe, but it's a reach
2011: Dirk
2012-2014: LeBron
2015: LeBron/Curry
2016-2018: LeBron
2019: Kawhi/Curry
2020: LeBron
2021: Giannis/Durant (if only playoffs counted)
2022-2024: Jokic
2025: Jokic unless SGA wins a title as a 1st option

I'd go like that, if we talk these 22 years of LeBron in the NBA.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#27 » by Homer38 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:52 pm

The Master wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:LeBron was the best player from 2009 through the bubble, with the exception of 2016 curry in there.

2004-2005: Duncan
2006: Wade
2007: Duncan
2008: KG/LeBron (LeBron was close to eliminate Celtics that year despite having much inferior roster)
2009: LeBron
2010: LeBron/Bryant maybe, but it's a reach
2011: Dirk
2012-2014: LeBron
2015: LeBron/Curry
2016-2018: LeBron
2019: Kawhi/Curry
2020: LeBron
2021: Giannis/Durant (if only playoffs counted)
2022-2024: Jokic
2025: Jokic unless SGA wins a title as a 1st option

I'd go like that, if we talk these 22 years of LeBron in the NBA.


This is the best list!
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#28 » by MavsDirk41 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:53 pm

Duncan up until 08
Kobe 08 - 10
James 11 - 18
Giannis 19 -20
Joker 21 to present
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#29 » by MavsDirk41 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:55 pm

Homer38 wrote:
The Master wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:LeBron was the best player from 2009 through the bubble, with the exception of 2016 curry in there.

2004-2005: Duncan
2006: Wade
2007: Duncan
2008: KG/LeBron (LeBron was close to eliminate Celtics that year despite having much inferior roster)
2009: LeBron
2010: LeBron/Bryant maybe, but it's a reach
2011: Dirk
2012-2014: LeBron
2015: LeBron/Curry
2016-2018: LeBron
2019: Kawhi/Curry
2020: LeBron
2021: Giannis/Durant (if only playoffs counted)
2022-2024: Jokic
2025: Jokic unless SGA wins a title as a 1st option

I'd go like that, if we talk these 22 years of LeBron in the NBA.


This is the best list!



Giannis was the best player in the nba 19/20
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#30 » by Homer38 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:57 pm

MavsDirk41 wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
The Master wrote:2004-2005: Duncan
2006: Wade
2007: Duncan
2008: KG/LeBron (LeBron was close to eliminate Celtics that year despite having much inferior roster)
2009: LeBron
2010: LeBron/Bryant maybe, but it's a reach
2011: Dirk
2012-2014: LeBron
2015: LeBron/Curry
2016-2018: LeBron
2019: Kawhi/Curry
2020: LeBron
2021: Giannis/Durant (if only playoffs counted)
2022-2024: Jokic
2025: Jokic unless SGA wins a title as a 1st option

I'd go like that, if we talk these 22 years of LeBron in the NBA.


This is the best list!



Giannis was the best player in the nba 19/20


In the regular season,I agree but he had some big struggle in the playoffs vs Toronto in 2019 and also in 2020.But I have no problem if you think Giannis was the best player that year,he is in the discussion for sure
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#31 » by Bornstellar » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:00 pm

Nope. LeBron was the best player in the league basically from 2008 to 2019 imo
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#32 » by The Master » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:01 pm

MavsDirk41 wrote:Giannis was the best player in the nba 19/20

Giannis was the best in the regular season, but had pretty bad series against Heat in the playoffs. LeBron was 2nd-best player in the regular season and 1st/2nd-best player in the playoffs, it's hard not to have him as #1 here, we're talking +8.4 BPM in the regular season and +10.7 BPM in the playoffs boxscore production with +11 on/off performance on dominant championship team (+6 SRS in the RS, +7 net in the PO).
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#33 » by CumberlandPosey » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:04 pm

wheres jinglin joe??
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#34 » by bkkrh » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:05 pm

MrPainfulTruth wrote:Some of the effects of 20+ years of ESPN brain wash are becoming apparent.

Disrespecting Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi and Giannis like they didnt clearly dominate LeBron in their head to head match ups is just embarrassingly ignorant. If guy creates superteams and stacks the deck in every possible way for 20+ years, gets the favorable whistle because he is the golden boy and "face" of the league for 20 years and come up with only four rings, two of which carry a huge asterisk, its almost comical to hear he was the best player in the league for all those years. But hey the same guys were probably believing in "not one...not two...not three...not four...not five..." :lol:


For being tired of constantly being force fed Lebron content, it's actually quite weird that somehow you are seemingly posting the most in any Lebron related thread that is currently on the board :roll: .
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#35 » by infinite11285 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:15 pm

Aside from LeBron, the alternatives are:
Duncan
Curry

…that’s the list.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#36 » by RRR3 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:28 pm

MrPainfulTruth wrote:Some of the effects of 20+ years of ESPN brain wash are becoming apparent.

Disrespecting Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi and Giannis like they didnt clearly dominate LeBron in their head to head match ups is just embarrassingly ignorant. If guy creates superteams and stacks the deck in every possible way for 20+ years, gets the favorable whistle because he is the golden boy and "face" of the league for 20 years and come up with only four rings, two of which carry a huge asterisk, its almost comical to hear he was the best player in the league for all those years. But hey the same guys were probably believing in "not one...not two...not three...not four...not five..." :lol:

Kobe was 6-16 against LeBron. If that’s your standard for dominating head to head well I guess LeBron dominated Golden State every year.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#37 » by infinite11285 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:39 pm

MrPainfulTruth wrote:Disrespecting Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi and Giannis like they didnt clearly dominate LeBron in their head to head match ups is just embarrassingly ignorant.


LeBron vs the Field All-Time W/L (Reg Season & Playoffs)
LBJ v Duncan (15-21)
LBJ v Curry (26-30)
LBJ v Kawhi (16-20)
LBJ v Dirk (18-14)
LBJ v Kobe (16-6)
LBJ v KD (24-19)
LBJ v Giannis (17-6)

Production-wise
...against Duncan, LBJ led in ppg, ast, stls;
...against Curry, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Dirk, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and stls;
...against Kawhi, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Kobe, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against KD, LBJ led in rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against Giannis, LBJ led in ppg, ast, and stls.

Lebron's toughest matchups
Pure win‑loss metric: Tim Duncan (15‑21) is the toughest; it’s LeBron’s worst winning percentage and only matchup where he trailed both on the scoreboard and in rim protection/rebounding categories.

Volume‑adjusted view: Stephen Curry edges Duncan for “sustained difficulty” (largest sample – 56 games – and still a sub‑.500 result). Curry also imposes the greatest offensive pace pressure, inflating LeBron’s minutes and usage in Finals runs.

Average categories led: 3.8 of 5. He’s never out‑produced in fewer than three categories, underscoring the all‑around load he carries.

Scoring burden: LeBron trails only Durant in points per game among the group; against everyone else he’s the top scorer and primary creator (ast leader in every matchup).

Defensive & glass work: LeBron leads in steals in five of six duels and in blocks vs four opponents—showing he’s often the most versatile defender on the floor in addition to directing the offense.

Framing Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi, or Giannis as having “clearly dominated” LeBron crumbles once you separate narrative from numbers. LeBron owns the statistical upper hand in at least three major box‑score categories against every one of them—often scoring and play‑making while matching or beating them on the glass and in defensive stats. Only Duncan and Curry finish with a win‑loss edge, and even there LeBron’s individual production still outpaces theirs. In the smaller Kobe and Giannis samples he posts a .730‑plus win rate; versus Durant and Kawhi he’s above .500 while stuffing the stat sheet. In short, some rivals carved out series‑by‑series victories, but none “clearly dominated” the player who, across every matchup, remained the most versatile force on the court. We can also clearly see why the Warriors were so adamant in their recruitment of KD. LBJ's head-to-head matchup against Curry looks significantly different if we remove KD from the equation.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#38 » by MavsDirk41 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:41 pm

The Master wrote:
MavsDirk41 wrote:Giannis was the best player in the nba 19/20

Giannis was the best in the regular season, but had pretty bad series against Heat in the playoffs. LeBron was 2nd-best player in the regular season and 1st/2nd-best player in the playoffs, it's hard not to have him as #1 here, we're talking +8.4 BPM in the regular season and +10.7 BPM in the playoffs boxscore production with +11 on/off performance on dominant championship team (+6 SRS in the RS, +7 net in the PO).



Yea but if we look at how dominate Giannis was in the regular season i think its still him. Those two years were peak Giannis

Giannis
VORP 6.6
BPM 11.5
DBPM 4.1
OBPM 7.4
Win shares 11.1
Defensive WS 5.0
OWS 6.1

James
VORP 6.1
BPM 8.4
DBPM 1.8
OBPM 6.6
Win shares 9.8
Defensive WS 3.6
OWS 6.2

He had a below par series against Miami in the second round but i still think he was the best player in the nba 19/20
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#39 » by MrPainfulTruth » Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:59 pm

infinite11285 wrote:
MrPainfulTruth wrote:Disrespecting Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi and Giannis like they didnt clearly dominate LeBron in their head to head match ups is just embarrassingly ignorant.


LeBron vs the Field All-Time W/L (Reg Season & Playoffs)
LBJ v Duncan (15-21)
LBJ v Curry (26-30)
LBJ v Kawhi (16-20)
LBJ v Dirk (18-14)
LBJ v Kobe (16-6)
LBJ v KD (24-19)
LBJ v Giannis (17-6)

Production-wise
...against Duncan, LBJ led in ppg, ast, stls;
...against Curry, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Dirk, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and stls;
...against Kawhi, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Kobe, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against KD, LBJ led in rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against Giannis, LBJ led in ppg, ast, and stls.

Lebron's toughest matchups
Pure win‑loss metric: Tim Duncan (15‑21) is the toughest; it’s LeBron’s worst winning percentage and only matchup where he trailed both on the scoreboard and in rim protection/rebounding categories.

Volume‑adjusted view: Stephen Curry edges Duncan for “sustained difficulty” (largest sample – 56 games – and still a sub‑.500 result). Curry also imposes the greatest offensive pace pressure, inflating LeBron’s minutes and usage in Finals runs.

Average categories led: 3.8 of 5. He’s never out‑produced in fewer than three categories, underscoring the all‑around load he carries.

Scoring burden: LeBron trails only Durant in points per game among the group; against everyone else he’s the top scorer and primary creator (ast leader in every matchup).

Defensive & glass work: LeBron leads in steals in five of six duels and in blocks vs four opponents—showing he’s often the most versatile defender on the floor in addition to directing the offense.

Framing Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi, or Giannis as having “clearly dominated” LeBron crumbles once you separate narrative from numbers. LeBron owns the statistical upper hand in at least three major box‑score categories against every one of them—often scoring and play‑making while matching or beating them on the glass and in defensive stats. Only Duncan and Curry finish with a win‑loss edge, and even there LeBron’s individual production still outpaces theirs. In the smaller Kobe and Giannis samples he posts a .730‑plus win rate; versus Durant and Kawhi he’s above .500 while stuffing the stat sheet. In short, some rivals carved out series‑by‑series victories, but none “clearly dominated” the player who, across every matchup, remained the most versatile force on the court. We can also clearly see why the Warriors were so adamant in their recruitment of KD. LBJ's head-to-head matchup against Curry looks significantly different if we remove KD from the equation.

You are quoting box score statistics, most of which heavily depend on the team surrounding a player. I''m pretty sure you know that, too.

The mistake you make is looking at numbers only, and you pick those numbers that favor the narrative you try to sell. That isnt "statistics" in the scientific sense. You state a zero hypothesis and then you look at all available numbers, unbiased. We all know no statistic is able to describe the game completely, let alone basic box score numbers. We all know some guys are experts at padding their individual stats while hurting their teams success. I would claim LeBron is one of them, but you dont have to agree. Ultimately we dont know what drives him, but watching him slack on defense, sometimes not even runing back just to chase a scoring title told me all i needed to know.

I am looking at the game first. I saw prime Kawhi shutting down LeBron. I saw prime KD stopping LeBron while hitting the game winner over him. Tim Duncan beat him. Steph was not ever matched up with him but when he had a comparable team around him, he won several titles in direct competition. People love to talk about 2016 but then you cannot disregard 2015, 2017, 2018, 2022.

There is no precise metric to name who the "best player" was in any given year. Certainly its not basic box score statistics. But the claim that LeBron was the best from 2008 to 2020 as some did in here is just so wrong. He cant be best if he cant beat guys in their direct matchup, and that was the case for both Kawhi and KD.
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Re: Best Player during the "Lebron Era" 

Post#40 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:01 pm

SpreeChokeJob wrote:Duncan was one Pop brain fart from being 6-0 and defeating James 3-0. Let that sink in. How the narrative would have changed. And it wasn’t James that saved them in that do or die game.

What if Amare wasn’t suspended in 07. What if Mavs didnt won game 4 in 14 lol

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